CFA now the favorite for Tony?- Page 5

[Gensho]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 1:58am

Most of the score of Great Comet was literally like nails on a chalkboard for me. I can't remember one song or what the show was about. The immersive nature of the piece started to feel gimmicky to me. Like it was a trick to distract you from how bad the show was. 

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 2:03am

Gensho said: "Most of the score of Great Comet was literally like nails on a chalkboard for me."

I feel the same. With an embarrassment of riches this season, I will be fine with almost any award that could happen in any category. And I think Great Comet should deservedly win set & lighting. But if that noise wins Best Score........just no.

[froote]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 2:16am

Gensho said: "Most of the score of Great Comet was literally like nails on a chalkboard for me. I can't remember one song or what the show was about. The immersive nature of the piece started to feel gimmicky to me. Like it was a trick to distract you from how bad the show was."

See how people are allowing you to share a negative opinion about a show others enjoy without trying to silence you or call you a 'hater'? The same would be appreciated in return!

Anyway, I can very easily see how and why the Great Comet score is divisive, but for me it's the most imaginative, innovative, varied and one of only two cast recordings of the season that I keep returning to. I think it deserves Best Score for the amount of effort put in alone.

[bear88]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 2:37am

I'm pretty unqualified to pick winners, but I'm going to hazard a few guesses anyway.

- There won't be a sweep, or anything that looks like a sweep, among the musicals. Between genuinely split opinions, and a desire to reward a variety of shows that have different strengths and appeal in different ways, I think the "major" awards will be divvied up.

- Until someone gives me a persuasive theory otherwise, I think the Best New Musical race comes down to the predicted showdown between Dear Evan Hansen and Come From Away. I think the latter has a chance to win only if it wins Best Book, because I would be surprised if CFA (which I didn't see) wins nothing but Best Musical. (Yes, there is an alternate world in which the votes are divided three ways, and Great Comet sneaks off with the big prize because it's unlike anything ever seen on Broadway. But I suspect Tony voters are a little too conservative and will reward Comet with lesser honors.)

- Even if it doesn't win Best Musical, I think Come From Away wins Best Book, because I would be shocked if such a well-liked musical walked away with nothing.

- Great Comet may get stuck only with the technical awards, and maybe not all of those. (I'm not rooting for that outcome, as I had a blast at that show and found it surprisingly moving, but that feels like a distinct possibility. It could finish second in a bunch of different categories, not that we would ever know.)

- I will operate on the assumption that all the nonsense over Hello, Dolly and the Tony Awards show will not affect the outcome of anything. Could be wrong, have no clue.

- Dear Evan Hansen wins Best Actor, Featured Actress, Best Score. Its status as the most "relevant" musical has been upstaged by Come From Away (Trump being president and all that), but that doesn't mean DEH still won't win Best New Musical. I just don't know.

- If Great Comet is going to win a non-technical award, not counting orchestrations, its best chance would seem to be Best Director for Rachel Chavkin. That would be Tony voters' way of giving the show a reward for being such an extraordinary experience (even if they hated the score, or thought it was too much spectacle, or whatever else they didn't like). 

- Groundhog Day gets shut out. I can't find a category it will win.

- There will be some surprise result that no one seriously anticipated and will aggravate and/or excite people here. 

Keep in mind that I know nothing. I have no Tony voter friends or inside sources.

Updated On: 6/6/17 at 02:37 AM

[binau]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 4:24am

NYJoe said: "But worse than all that is the endless self-congratulating. I found it unbearable.

... it does sometimes straddle into self-congratulatory, overly sentimental or unrealistically idealised visions 

I find this sort of remark odd, especially since much of the show is verbatim, with numerous participants confirming the veracity of the story, the sentiment, and the actual language used (word for word, in the case of some characters). It doesn't seem to me "self-congratulatory" at all.  It's a true story, and while spending time on this board might suggest otherwise, many people are actually...well...good.  See the lovely story on this board about the plane people who saw it just last week, how they got their tickets, and who said the show was entirely accurate.  

In fact, actual science suggests that humans are wired to cooperate. That's why the show is resonating so far and wide. 

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/21/the_science_of_selfishness_humans_arent_actually_hard_wired_to_be_jerks/

 

"

When I listen to the cast recording now I can't help but feel like I want to start reciting lyrics from Groundhog day (I've posted them at the end of this). I know it's somewhat ironic given the whole point of them in Groundhog day is to show how his attitudes change over time. But when you listen to "Welcome to the Rock" with the portrayal of good-willed but naive, if a little stupid, small-town folk talking about their sappy jobs (e.g., teaching, animal feeding), several references to the weather/the environments it's hard for me not to think about it. 

It might be based on a true story but I can't help but feel it's a bit overplayed/exaggerated a little. Do I really think there was a naive man who had to go to a supermarket back and forth because he wasn't thinking what women/babies would need? Maybe, but I doubt it happened EXACTLY as portrayed. Maybe he forgot once and that was that. But it's hard for me to believe someone went to the store, came back - was told to get something for the Women/babies and then went to the store, came back and was told to get something else for the Women. They drag it out because it's funny/playing up the naivety of the man.

And it's this kind of thing that happens throughout - they are all naive, good-willed people. I'm sure there are definitely people like this but the constant focus on it is what makes it seem overly sappy/sentimental to me.

And speaking of Groundhog day "small ideas", when I say unrealistically idealised I really am particularly speaking about the way this musical deals with religion. Now, I don't want to bleed in too much of my rather unpopular off-topic posts here but it is annoying that this sappy musical keeps trying to push the unrealistic idea that religions are sacred, rather harmless things that people call upon in times of need to help them get by - and we can all live  peacefully with these different belief systems. I mean, I'm sure many can. But come on - when the three religions that are called out in particular are responsible for so much physical and mental destruction of people in our world, such as minorities or the religions in direct conflict with each other (e.g., religious conquests, terrorism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, anti-scientific progress including attitudes towards climate change and medical research etc.) of course I would wish that the musical wouldn't take the easy way out and pretend there is nothing wrong here.

It's quite hilarious that this whole event - 9/11 - was caused by islamism/religious fundamentalist ideology and yet the only thing the musical has to say on the matter is that not all muslims are terrorists. I think we get that in 2017. Could you imagine if the musical actually took a bit of risk and had a song where the muslim character explored an inner conflict where he acknowledged the terrible things caused by the fundamentalist beliefs within his religion (e.g., misogyny, homophobia, violence/terror in islamic countries and western countries) and then perhaps call for muslims to come together, call for peace, reject the fundamentalist teachings/find ways to explain the religious dogma in a way that doesn't result in the terrible outcomes it currently has, including 9/11? It would be the most politically important and powerful song of the season. And hopefully make the score a little bit more interesting. Of course, it would never do this. It isn't the pulitzer prize winning "Disgraced", which manages to explore the issue much more. It's a fairy floss left-wing soundbite/tweet (and I say this as a 'left-wing' person).

These are only minor points though - as I said I still enjoyed it, and won't be disappointed if it wins Best Musical if only because the *general* message is so important (even if I think it is overly sappy/sentimental and executed in an amateurish way). 
 

Groundhog day on Newfoundland as portrayed in CFA

Small towns, tiny minds
Big mouths, small ideas
Shallow talk, deep snow, cold fronts
One bar one store one clock
One diner one bank one cop

I mean, whats not to like in a quaint like this
Who doesn't dig a crocheted pillowcase like this
Watercolors of bucolic vistas, painted by octogenarian spinsters and
All of the people just getting together for
relentless analysis of the weather their
dumb superstitions and vacuous chat
I'm sure there was a pack of Xanax in this jacket
You couldn't pay me to stay here one more night
swear that there is no cheque you could write that might tempt me to stay and wake up in the morning in

I've not a bad word to say about small towns per-say
They're nice for an hour or at a stretch, half a day
And they're perfect for a stop off on your way, on your way to somewhere else
Pretty much ... anywhere else
And I've no qualm at all with your small town people
I admire their balls getting out of bed at all
to face another day in a **** hole this small
All haystacks and horses where there should be golf courses and

One bar one store one clock
One diner one bank one cop

How can they bear it to live in a place like this
Separate from the whole human race like this
One little store selling plaid shirts and rakes
And it's huntin' and fishin' and half-pounder steaks
And if I have a hope of a better career than this
This is the last time I'm broadcasting here, Jesus
I have been forecasting too many years to be talking to hicks about magical beavers
When I'm done I'm gonna call up the station and tell them I'm through with this crap
And never again will I wake in the morning in

 

Updated On: 6/6/17 at 04:24 AM

[cam5y]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 7:48am

Did you mean for that post to be quite as insulting as you made it? People in small town Newfoundland aren't stupid. To take but one example, Zita Cobb came from Fogo Island, left, made a fortune in Silicon Valley and then came back to Newfoundland to use that money to set up a luxury hotel to benefit her community. Even in the show, the mayor acknowledges that the reason so many planes are coming their way is because fewer people will die if there are any terrorists on them. These are not stupid people. Of course the characters are exaggerated, because that's how musicals work. I wish the Newfoundland characters could have had a bit more depth to them (the outsiders are the only ones with any character development) but they're not portrayed as stupid. Sorry that the "sappy jobs" of teaching, animal feeding, librarian, police officer, air traffic control and mayor aren't cool enough for you. Not much web development going on there in 2001.

You want a song about how the Muslim character is conflicted, and how that would be deeply meaningful? Let me tell you, I come from small town Newfoundland and I could never live there any more, but not because the people are stupid. I now live and work in East London, and have many Muslim colleagues and friends. Why should a Muslim man who lives in Egypt apologise for or explain the actions of (predominantly) Saudis who believe in a perversion of that faith? Any more so than American Christians should apologise for the actions of the IRA (well, apart from the ones who funded it).

Updated On: 6/6/17 at 07:48 AM

[ebontoyan]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 8:53am

Thanks for your post cam5y! 2 post up doesn't realize how stupid she sounds while calling Newfoundlanders stupid.  At least they did something to help other people.  Has she??!

Updated On: 6/6/17 at 08:53 AM

[Lot666]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 9:52am

NYJoe said: "...while spending time on this board might suggest otherwise, many people are actually...well...good."

Touché!

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 10:29am

Jarethan said: "And we only have to wait a few days to see who is right!"

No in a few days, we will see who wins. After which, everyone will assess why certain awards were the wrong choice and why they are still right... (See: Kinky Boots vs Matilda, pretty much every time either is brought up)

[Oak2]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 10:46am

I have spoken to several people who assure me they are voters named Tony, and they insist that due to all the squabbling and fighting and hate over the whole thing, they are just tossing their hands in the air and giving all awards in all categories this year to Nathan Lane, who will then have them all melted for use as a base for the first prototype Lanebot, which are projected to replace flesh and blood actors and actresses entirely within the next 25 years.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 11:58am

Other than on this board, and some online reviews that conveniently mention "go see DEH!" at the end of it, I don't see this widespread condemnation of Malloy's score/book. In fact, it has been lavishly praised by everyone, from Schwartz to Sondheim

[PaulWom]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:09pm

I honestly think that those who don't get Malloy's book/score need their content force-fed to them, instead of making an effort to follow a story or try a new form of music. In the words of Sondheim: 

"JOE:

That's great. That's swell.
The other stuff as well.
It isn't every day
I hear a score this strong
But fellas, if I may,
There's only one thing wrong:

There's not a tune you can hum.
There's not a tune you go bum-bum-bum-di-dum.
You need a tune you can bum-bum-bum-di-dum —
Give me a melody!

Why can't you throw 'em a crumb?
What's wrong with letting 'em tap their toes a bit?
I'll let you know when Stravinsky has a hit
Give me some melody!

Oh sure, I know,
It's not that kind of show.
But can't you have a score
That's sort of in between?
Look, play a little more,
I'll show you what I mean …

CHARLEY
"Who wants to live in New York?
I always hated the dirt, the heat, the noise.
But ever since I met you, I — "

JOE
Listen, boys,
Maybe it's me,
But that's just not a hummmmmmmmmmmmmable melody!"

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:10pm

haterobics said: "Jarethan said: "And we only have to wait a few days to see who is right!"

No in a few days, we will see who wins. After which, everyone will assess why certain awards were the wrong choice and why they are still right... (See: Kinky Boots vs Matilda, pretty much every time either is brought up)

 

That was what I was referring to...who wins.  Agree with your post, otherwise, although I am from the camp that enjoyed Kinky Boots a lot more than Matilda.

 

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:18pm

"Give me a melody!"

 

Yeah, give us all one, please. Or better yet, several.

That is, if anyone is willing or able to.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:19pm

If we want to talk haters, I don't remember hearing this negative opinion of The Great Comet when it played Off-Broadway. I only heard "you gotta see this" type of word of mouth. Also heard that when it played Boston. Not until it reached Broadway, of course...

In my opinion, I think it's a fascinating score. It may be uneven and not 100% successful, but Dave Malloy has a voice that no one else has and it's amazing that this kind of a score is playing Broadway. I listen to the two cast recordings and find something new and interesting about the music and lyrics each time. It's very carefully crafted. Sorry if it's nails on a chalkboard to some people, but every note and lyric he wrote seems to have intention.

If the Drama Desks are any indication (which it might not be), there is still love for The Great Comet in the industry. After all, it won every award it was up for this year (I'm thrilled that it tied in Direction of a Musical with The Band's Visit). Plus, it's the out-of-the-box option, a total "this shouldn't have made it to Broadway but it did" option, a cool and edgy but retro option. I think it would be exciting if it won Best Musical. (And it would be the third longest title to win Best Musical behind How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying and A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.)

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:22pm

I will say that I'll be very disappointed if Dave Malloy walks away completely empty-handed on Sunday. I understand if the score isn't to everyone's taste, but he wrote the entire show and orchestrated the whole thing on top of it. It's a remarkable feat that very few composers have ever accomplished, and he at least deserves Orchestrations just for pulling it off with the level of skill and detail he has. 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:29pm

wonderfulwizard11 said: "I will say that I'll be very disappointed if Dave Malloy walks away completely empty-handed on Sunday. I understand if the score isn't to everyone's taste, but he wrote the entire show and orchestrated the whole thing on top of it. It's a remarkable feat that very few composers have ever accomplished, and he at least deserves Orchestrations just for pulling it off with the level of skill and detail he has."

100% this.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:30pm

He should absolutely win for making double reeds cool. Has any orchestrator done that in the history of Broadway?

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:32pm

THE GREAT COMET is an opera, and I think this contributes to the widely varying opinions of its score. Generally, people like arias, because they're melodic. However, I suspect that many would consider the recitative in classic operas to be just "noise," especially those who need a melody in order to stay engaged. Is Malloy's score my favorite this season? No. Is it well-crafted, intricate, and consistently surprising? Absolutely. I have to acknowledge the talent that went into creating it.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 12:44pm

Laughing my ass off @ After Eight, who apparently does not see the mockery/parody in those Sondheim lyrics

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 1:00pm

 

^

PaulWom,

Pssst..... I see it.

I just don't buy it.

The music he mocks is infinitely superior to his.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 1:08pm

You're entitled to your opinion, After Eight, but most of the well respected composers on Broadway (including Sondheim himself) disagree with you.

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 1:23pm

 

"most of the well respected composers on Broadway (including Sondheim himself) disagree with you."

 

Well-respected by whom? Themselves? The so-called "critics?"

As for Sondheim, well, since he wrote that godawful song in the first place, it stands to reason he would disagree with me. But frankly, I don't give a hoot in hell what he thinks.

And I don't need you, him, or any "well-respected" composer to tell me what good --- or bad ---music is. 

I know.

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 1:27pm

After Eight said: "And I don't need you, him, or any "well-respected" composer to tell me what good --- or bad ---music is. 

I know."

 

No kidding. Your diatribes articulate that very clearly. Ironically, that makes you no different than them. 

Updated On: 6/6/17 at 01:27 PM

[PaulWom]

Posted: 6/6/17 at 1:27pm

"Well-respected" was referring to Sondheim, Schwartz, Lin-Manuel, Adam Guettel, and many others.