Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
#0Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 8:18pm
I shared with my friend a link to the Phantom movie trailer. His response was positive and said that he couldn't believe that this film hadn't come out a lot sooner. I explained to him that it originally was going to come out shortly after the first Broadway production in the late eighties (and with at least two of the original leads: Brightman and Crawford).
This got me to thinking about movie musicals. Isn't it funny how Chicago and Phantom have similar ordeals in getting put on film.
Of course with Chicago it took far longer to get onscreen, and with several different people attached to several different projects over the years (i.e. Liza Minnelli, Goldie Hawn, Madonna, Charlize Theron, Nicole Kidman, Nathan Lane, Rosie O'Donnell, etc.). By the way, when Goldie and Liza were in consideration for the film back in the seventies, which roles were they suggested to play? I can imagine both in the Roxie role (seeing as how Liza had already done it on Broadway and Goldie had that kooky "Laugh-In" persona attached to her), but I could also see Liza as Velma, as well. She'd have played both roles. I once read somewhere that there was footage somewhere of an attempt at the film in the seventies that had a "Cell Block Tango" including several Broadway stars, including Ethel Merman, as the cell block girls. This could be a wild rumor, and it probably is, but it's intriguing nonetheless.
Now, with Phantom, we finally (obviously) have a definite cast after a period in the late-90s/early 2000s where different names were rumored: John Travola, Antonio Banderas and Brooke Shields (blech to them all!). Andrew Lloyd Webber seems to have not ****ed this one up with a big pop star, and grew some balls to take a chance with a few lesser-known film actors who might actually be able to *gasp* sing their roles in the keys intended--what a CONCEPT!
I believe that Moulin Rouge was, inadvertently, a litmus test for Chicago, which was probably another test for Phantom, which--I hope--will be an indication that Sweeney Todd is a viable option for the big screen. I can dream, at least.
-SuperSchubert
#1re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 8:32pm
MOULIN ROUGE may have been testing the movie musical field, but to think it was a SET-UP for CHICAGO? Doesn't make sense. And CHICAGO a set-up for PHANTOM? I don't think so.
RENT is coming, DREAMGIRLS is at a stand-still, THE PRODUCERS IS COMING, DE-LOVELY is next.
I'm very pleased the movie musical is making a grand come-back. Note that both MOULIN ROUGE and CHICAGO were nominated for Academy Awards. I'm sure PHANTOM and RENT and definitely THE PRODUCERS will get many too. We know these are great storylines that have already succeeded on Broadway. Can't wait for the world to share the love for these musicals.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#2re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 10:13pmI have a feeling Phantom of the Opera will be very good and be nominated for a few Oscars, but I fear for Rent. It doesn't scream Oscar material to me. It doesn't scream movie material, either, but that's a different story.
millie_dillmount
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#3re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 10:17pmHairspray is being made into a movie also. I would be nice to see an update movie of 42nd Street, but I don't think that would be as popular...but I absolutely loved the show!
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#4re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 10:30pm
I do think Moulin Rouge helped pave the way for Chicago -- not in getting it made, but in the way it was received. If Moulin Rouge wasn't nominated for an Oscar for Best Picture, Chicago would have never won it a year later.
Unless a miracle happens, Rent won't be anywhere near the Academy Awards, simply because of its blah director. I know we've debated this already, but even if Columbus pulls off making an interesting movie, let's face it, even his very best isn't Oscar quality.
The return of the movie musical is exciting because we have yet to see what form it will take. Will the majority of these New Movie Musicals be reminiscent of MTV (fast editing, extremely stylized, unrelenting pace) like Moulin Rouge, or be like a recorded stage performance (Chicago)? I'm hoping for a blend of both: still very cinematic and dynamic, but retaining some of the theatricality that makes "sung stories" work. (I for one wasn't very happy with Chicago; I felt it was too much like a made-for-TV musical, like the ABC versions of 'Annie' or 'Bye Bye Birdie. It could have been more cinematic, but instead, it felt like a professionally-filmed stage production.)
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
Updated On: 6/30/04 at 10:30 PM
#5re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 11:18pmI don't think we should be discussing PHANTOM paving the way for anything since it has yet to reach theaters. I read that the movie as it stands at the moment is 2 hours and 30 minutes, which is wonderful news for the fans, but I'm telling you right now there is no way in hell this movie is making it to the big screen clocking in at two and a half hours. I still believe it is going to be butchered. Look at The Fantasticks. That had the opportunity of being one of the greatest musical movies ever made. If you watch the many, many deleted scenes you can see that it was perfect, but they were cut and the film reduced to an hour and a half running time. It failed at the box office and is rarely spoken of today. I'm not a huge fan of even the stage version of The Fantasticks, but the movie was and could have been awesome. But movie producers butchered the vision. I'm not saying PHANTOM has in store the same fate, but at two and a half hours, I feel it coming. The last Harry Potter movie wasn't even two and a half hours. It's about money, not creativity. I wish these shows would stay on stage where they belong. But, honestly, I can't say that I've ever even seen a movie musical that I was completey satisfyed with except, of course, for the Bette Middler GYPSY. And that is but one movie out of the thousands that have been made. Updated On: 6/30/04 at 11:18 PM
#6re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 11:23pmI hope Phantom is good, it looks very lush and grand - I hope Shumacher didn't screw it up!
"I've had two years to grow claws, Mother, and they're Jungle Red!" Mary Haines - The Women
Matt_G
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/1/04
#7re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 11:23pm150 mins isn't considered long by Hollywood standards. If the cut is 150 now, I don't see any reason they would want it trim it.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#8re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 11:35pm150 mins is long. The longer the movie, the less showings per day and the less money it brings in....
Matt_G
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/1/04
#9re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 6/30/04 at 11:49pmYes, we all know that but 150 mins is not considered a "long movie". It's right there at the cut off point, though. The movie will be billed as one of the biggest film events of the year (we all know that) so it will be on multiple screens when it is released.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#10re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 1:07am
I think we're allowing our theatre fandom to cloud our predictions. I really don't think Phantom will be billed as "one of the biggest film events of the year"; I'll be surprised if Phantom even registers with the average moviegoer as a "must see".
Chicago had the advantage of big stars and a savvy marketing campagin from Miramax, but even it didn't make that much money (one of the lowest-grossing Best Picture winners, actually). Phantom is riding on its brandname alone, and I'm skeptical as to how much it'll float because of it.
150 minutes is suicide in Hollywood. Sure, there are Hollywood movies that are that long, but usually they are projects that won't suffer from a long running time -- a large builtin audience, a big star, it's an action movie, etc.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
#11re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 2:14amI might be completely wrong here, but I feel as if Webber really has done this movie for the fans. Why do I say this? Well, let's look at something here that is going to be a major factor in the movie's success at the theaters. THE MUSIC. In Moulin Rouge, we had music that already existed as pop songs and people knew them..........with Chicago, we have catchy, fun music like "all that jazz," "cell block tango." With Phantom, we do not have any of that. Phantom of the Opera music borders on what the title says, OPERA. And plus, it is completely sung. Chicago and Moulin Rouge did not have that. Evita had that and a lot of people were bored by it (Hence the box office intake). Webber has to know this. What he is bringing, is a movie for fans of the show to have with them forever, because as we all know, the show itself is not going to last forever (although I wish it would). The movie itself might even go up for an Oscar because of the cinematography which looks very artistic....which the Oscars love. If it fails in the box office, it fails.........if it succeeds, it succeeds. Although, being the musical that has grossed more than all other musicals, and more than the top three top grossing movies of all time put together......I think it might have a shot at doing very well. Really, the only thing we can do is wait.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#12re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 5:11am
Rent won't be Oscar material? Well, that's contingent upon the performances and how the characters are fleshed out in the screenplay. When musicals are nominated for Oscars, the quirky characters (i.e. the Emcee in Cabaret, Velma in Chicago, Anita in West Side Story) usually stand a good chance of winning. Heck, recent years have seen actors in dramas receive nominations *probably* because their characters were so distinct. Was Renee Zellweger really that great as Ruby in Cold Mountain? Were we rooting for Chris Cooper to win for Adaptation because he's the only one who could have pulled off the character, or because the idea of a sexy, toothless, foul-mouthed guy who loses his family in a car accident is so much more compelling than an abandoned husband or a father who is doted over by his son?
I would expect the actors portraying Angel, Collins and Mimi to receive nominations if they deliver strong performances. A lovable drag queen with AIDS? Radical anarchist with AIDS? Lovable, HIV+ S&M dancer/junkie? The Academy will have a hard time resisting nominations -- if the performances are strong.
Best Picture, Director and Adapted Screenplay are certainly in the hands of Columbus. Based on his previous films, I think this production will [at least] garner some nominations for Art Direction and Sound.
On another note, the presence of catchy, hip songs in Rent speaks to its Oscar potential. Most of the people in the Academy were not around for repeat theatrical viewings of Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers musicals (the members' names were just released, fyi). They went for hip musicals like Chicago and Moulin Rouge, so they're likely to go for Rent in some respect. It's possible for a film to be flawed but still have stand-out great qualities. Frida made the mistake of concentrating on highlighting certain incidents in Kahlo's life (i.e. the sex part of her bisexuality) instead of focusing on a strong narrative, but the costume design, the art direction and the score -- none of which Columbus will have principal control over -- were nonetheless memorable.
And speaking of Moulin Rouge... how is it, another story closely related to Puccini's opera, Oscar material while Rent isn't??
Updated On: 7/1/04 at 05:11 AM
jo
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#13re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 7:36am
I think Phantom of the Opera may also be a litmus test for another Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, SUNSET BOULEVARD. A musicalized remake of a film classic and a filmization of a great stage musical - I look forward to his announcing this movie project as the next for his group. I guess that will depend to a great extent on how well-received Phantom of the Opera will be, critically and financially.
And whatever happened to the plans ( announced a long time ago) to film the musical LES MISERABLES? There are a number of non-musical film versions of this dramatic and historic work, but no whiff again of whether the successful musical version will ever come to the silver screen. Is it too long to be considered a doable Hollywood project? Too much an operatic work for a maintstream audience? Surely, if they could film movies like TROY, there is room for a movie with such a sweeping historical and dramatic script and music.
Updated On: 7/1/04 at 07:36 AM
#14re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 8:51am
"Phantom of the Opera" is all sung? I must've missed that in all the dialogue scenes.
The music in 'Phantom' 'borders' opera about as closely as Canada borders Zimbabwe.
#15re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 9:28am
the music in POTO causes headaches, too... 
#16re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 9:35amI just don't think "Rent" will work as a movie. The show is an experience, in a dark, dank theatre filled with dust clouds and run down walls and ceilings. There's basically no set, and it works. It's a live theater thing. The movie, I don't think, won't be able to capture this. I'll give it a chance, but it's hard for me to imagine it working. I hope I'm wrong.
#17re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 9:37amOh, I don't have anything against the music in 'Phantom,' per se -- it's OK, it's just not even remotely close to opera.
#18re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 9:39amYeah, it's mock opera in my eyes. But, I still enjoy it.
millie_dillmount
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#19re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 9:54amPhantom of the Opera is mostly sung...although there are dialogue scenes. I would say about 85% of the show is singing. I believe most of the dialogue happened in the first Act.
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#20re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 12:24pmMy point when I said, "it leaned closer to opera" was that people who have seen Moulin Rouge and Chicago have in their headsd what they think musical theatre music sounds like, but with Phantom, it is not like the normal everyday musical sound. I was saying it WAS OPERA. And if there is dialogue, it is like very minimal and then goes directly into the song. Like reading of the letters.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#21re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 1:16pm
I think Les Miz would make a beautiful movie (if done well, of course). It's already a very cinematic work - the Nunn and Caird direction borrowed a lot of cinematic techniques in their staging, from slo-mo to subtitling dates (well, surtitling dates). The main issue is its length, and I would be devestated if they chopped it to bits.
Moulin Rouge WASN'T Oscar material: that's why it was such a surprise in Hollywood when it was nominated (it must have been a close slip-in, since Baz Luhrrman wasn't even nominated for director).
I'm still not convinced that Rent is Oscar material. Yes, Chicago and Moulin Rouge aren't the Astaire and Rogers musicals of old, but neither are they an edgy, hip rock concert that Rent is. Rent will appeal to teenagers and twentysomethings, NOT Academy voters. In fact, they may be turned off by a show that will inevitably be pandering to the MTV demographic.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
Updated On: 7/1/04 at 01:16 PM
bwaylyric
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/22/03
#22re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/1/04 at 1:29pmI always thought that EVITA (Madonna version) paved the way for this new generation of movie musicals.
WickedDude
Stand-by Joined: 7/2/04
#23re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/2/04 at 10:11pmI herad that Andrew Lloyd Webber himself wrote a new song for the Phantom movie. It's called "No One Would Listen" and we get to find out more about the Phantom's past and how people made fun of him for his appearence. And I think he sings it when he's in a room that's filled with pictures and paintings of Chirstine.
Musetta1957
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/11/03
#24re: Movie Musicals (Chicago and Phantom, most specifically)
Posted: 7/3/04 at 2:43am
Here's what happened with the Les Miz movie:
LES MIS movie info: Alan Parker [FAME, BUGSY MALONE, PINK FLOYD THE
WALL, BIRDY] was initially chosen by Cameron Mackintosh to direct the
movie for Tristar Pictures. Parker pulled out, and was replaced by
Bruce Beresford [DRIVING MISS DAISY, BLACK ROBE]. Beresford has since
dropped out, and as of April 1993, the movie was in pre-production at
TriStar Pictures with the following creative team:
Producers: Cameron Mackintosh, David Matalon, Chris Kenny
Director: Richard Attenborough
Screenwriters: Alain Boublil, Claude-Michel Schonberg
rec.arts.theatre.musicals FAQ, 1994
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