ABC Receives 1,500 Complaints About Adam Lambert Kissing a Man- Page 4

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 5:36pm

I think if Britney could survive her VMA performance, he'll be fine. The public has the the memory of a goldfish these days.

[snl89]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 5:41pm

^See, so many people keep mentioning this idea about "having to earn it", but... didn't all those people who have done risque things earn their credibility BY taking risks in the first place?? Sure, NOW when they do things it's expected and they've earned it. But the whole REASON they became respected to begin with is because they were daring enough to take risks!

Madonna WAS at the beginning of her career when she first did "Like a Virgin" on the VMAs, was she not? And that performance HELPED her become the legend she is now.


That said, I DO get that the problem with this performance is that it just plain wasn't good. And that's my problem with it. The song is actually a definite fun song, but the arrangement they used to do it live was weak, and his voice was really off for pretty much the first time I've ever heard haha. I don't know if that's because he was so focused on the performance factor that the vocals took a back seat, or if there was something wrong with the sound mixing or what, but it just pains me to think that ANYONE would have gotten that as a first impression of his voice. Plus the performance was just sloppy. It DID end up being all about the shock value and everything else went on the back burner.

It was just so uncharacteristic of Adam because generally that's his strength, is to form these fantastic coherent spectacles, and make it all a really strong experience. Ring of Fire may have turned a lot of people off, but it also GAINED him respect from a lot of people because it was well constructed, flawlessly sung, and took a huge risk. With the AMA performance, it had the shock value but nothing else fit, and that's why it wasn't effective.

That being said, it's still not something that people should be freaking out over to the extent that his GMA appearance is CANCELED. It may not have been an effective performance, but it was not that out of the ordinary compared to most things female pop artists tend to do these days. And I at least admire him for TAKING the risks he did. It just needed to be executed much more effectively, that's all

[snl89]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 7:01pm

Just in case anyone wants to hear Adam's take on the whole thing (plus it's just an awesome interview in general):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB1ockbreqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMCXlIBjmUs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4kF7gXZc8k

Z100 interview from this morning!

Yup, he's still uber adorable and sweet and awesome

Honestly, I back him 100% in spirit. I really do believe him when he says he was just having fun. I just think that maybe the adrenaline rush was so great that he got a little TOO into it and it just came off as sloppy to viewers at home. But yeah, I think that interview shows that he reeeally really hasn't gotten a big head, and he's NOT completely inappropriate. He just got wrapped up in what he was doing and maybe didn't realize how severe/trashy it came across on screen haha

I dunno, I just think he's a sweetie and hate to think that people might think he's all pretentious or something just because he went a bit overboard

Updated On: 11/24/09 at 07:01 PM

[Luscious]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 7:27pm

He'll be just fine. As long as they're still talking...

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 7:30pm

Right!? I mean, he stole the Twitter/online chatter thunder from Lady Gaga for once. All those performers, comebacks, posthumous awards, etc. and HE'S the buzz.

Like I said, he may just come out way on top of all of this if he plays his cards right.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 7:33pm

Yes, Madonna was at the beginning of her mega stardom, but she spent MANY years in the dance clubs in NYC honing her craft. She took those big risks to a smaller crowd and learned what worked and didn't work. She also did it on the MTV Music Awards. Back then, it didn't have near the viewership that the AMAs has. Who knows how it would be perceived now with the world being online. The same goes for Lady Gaga. While it seems she may have just burst on the scene, she has been in the clubs for years creating herself as an artist and worked her way up.

While I can't fault him for it, Adam was catapulted into fame. Yes, he was trying to make it on his own, but he didn't. It took AI to get him there. And truthfully, all of antics at the awards show were everything that the American Idol judges told him to watch out for. Believe it or not, they know some of what they are talking about. Baby steps would have been better. There is a growing period for everyone that AI produces. No one has just gone from the show to artistry. He tried and it didn't work. But that's not saying if he were established that Sunday night wouldn't have hurt him whether it was planned or not. Sinead O'Connor was still a very critically acclaimed artist when she ripped the picture of the pope up on SNL. Her career tanked. The same goes for a spur of the moment comment made by Natalie Maines of The Dixie Chicks. Despite the fact that their album following the ordeal is arguably their best, they are off the radar.

I don't think this will kill his career. I just don't think he will come out smelling like a rose.

Updated On: 11/24/09 at 07:33 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 8:00pm

Wait a sec--are you seriously saying he didn't do anything before AI? And I'm not even referring to Rent.

[snl89]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 8:01pm

^But Adam's been gaining performing experience for many years now as well :) He's been in bands, written songs, done demos, done club and cabaret performances, etc.

Now maybe his pre-Idol experience wasn't quite to the same level Madonna's pre-superstardom experience was, but the point is just that his performance ability and charisma did not come from nowhere. It's something he's worked on very hard for a long time. He's worked hard to become the performer and artist he is today.

Unfortunately the AMAs were just a terrible showcase of his talents all around. It was uncharacteristic of his norm in every way- sloppy vocals, sloppy performance, and all that. In GENERAL that's not how he is at all.

And in terms of the "making it" thing, I think it's worth baring in mind that the music industry is TOTALLY different these days than it was back in the 80s. Adam has said many times himself, and I agree, that it's pretty darn near impossible TO "get discovered" on your own anymore. I mean a feeeew artists here and there have managed it, but bi and large record companies just won't sign you these days unless you already have a fan base. So I think it's a little unfair to treat it like he didn't "earn it on his own", you know what I mean? Technically, it's true that he needed Idol to get there. But that's because most artists these days needs Idol or something like it to achieve mainstream success.

The thing is, AMA performance aside for a minute, I think Adam came into Idol READY to be a star. Unlike people like Cook and Kris and even Kelly who took a little bit to come into their own on the show, Adam came in knowing full well who he is as an artist and what he's all about. Idol was literally JUST a platform to gain exposure for him.

I agree that the AMA performance was a misstep, absolutely. But really just because it wasn't executed well enough to justify the raciness of it. It made him appear cheap and like he RELIES on sexual antics to draw attention to himself, and that couldn't be further from the truth. He's one of the few pop artists these days that actually DOES have tons of talent. The performance just didn't show case it.

So yeah, I've kind of vacillated back and forth on how I feel about it all over the last couple of days, and I think the conclusion I've ultimately come to, personally, is that I support what he was trying to do completely, and just don't think it was executed well enough to work. I don't think he needs to STOP pushing the limits- that's his thing and that's what makes him so interesting- he just needs to really focus on making sure he doesn't sacrifice showcasing his talent in order to create controversy. The talent always needs to be first priority, and THEN he can be as daring as he wants! But the talent has to be there to justify it all :)

And he even said in the Z100 interview himself that he's still new to this, and he DOES have a lot to learn! I think, as much as it was pained me to see the performance and the reactions it got, this has actually probably been a really good lesson for him in terms of how far really IS too far, how to go about it, and so forth. He's a smart cookie and I'm sure he's taking this all as learning experience so he doesn't repeat the same mistakes again! :)

Updated On: 11/24/09 at 08:01 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 8:14pm

It was just so uncharacteristic of Adam because generally that's his strength, is to form these fantastic coherent spectacles, and make it all a really strong experience. Ring of Fire may have turned a lot of people off, but it also GAINED him respect from a lot of people because it was well constructed, flawlessly sung, and took a huge risk. With the AMA performance, it had the shock value but nothing else fit, and that's why it wasn't effective.

How can you compare what he did on Sunday evening to Ring of Fire? The level of spectacle in the AMA performance was leagues away from anything he did on American Idol. Yes, going outside the box, pushing limits and taking risks are his strengths, but as much as he did that during the competition, but never to the point of what was going on up there at the AMA's. Nothing there was anywhere near the level of huge and stunt-filled. My biggest issue with that performance, vocal weakness aside, was simply that there was way too much going on. I get that you want to defend him, but come on. Be sensible. Some pretty lights, weird-ass arrangements and bizarre images on the screen are hardly "spectacle." They are by American Idol standards, but that's about it.

Updated On: 11/24/09 at 08:14 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 8:35pm

^Oh no I totally didn't mean to imply that Ring of Fire was anywhere near the same scale as the AMAs haha. I just meant that, if you want to look at how he actually HAS effectively pushed the limits before, that would be a good performance to look at. Because it really DID get an almost entirely split reaction, at least from my perception of it. There were people who [i]hated[/i] it and thought it was just plain weird, but there were also people who may not have been huge Idol fans before that thought it was brilliant because it was SO deviant from the typical Idol performance. But more importantly, it was well executed. Doesn't mean everyone liked it, but it was well done enough that it got strong reactions on BOTH sides.

That's the only reason I bring Ring of Fire up, is to say that.. there's a way to be out of the box/controversial and still gain new fans in the process. But in order to do that the talent and skill has to come through. And it didn't in the AMA performance. Everything about it was sloppy, and so it didn't have that polarized-but-truly-50/50 effect Ring of Fire did. I don't think it gained him many new fans. It DID create tons and tons of buzz though, which is definitely good! I just wish the performance had been up to his usual polished standards all around, that's all.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 9:15pm

But if you're saying that being sloppy was uncharacteristic of Adam because he succeeded in pushing the limits on Idol, so thusly he should be okay doing this, aren't you comparing them? My point is that succeeding there doesn't mean success with something on an exponentially grander scale; just because he was able to pull off "spectacle" there, that doesn't mean he's ready to do it on this level yet. And I think whatever went wrong on Sunday in terms of the quality of the performance shows that he's not. I'm talking merely about the sloppiness of the AMA performance, not the raciness of it. That, I'm totally fine with. Race away, Adam.

I agree with what you're saying about how he can push limits and gain new fans, absolutely. I mean, isn't that a summation of his entire trajectory to fame? Presumably people voted for him because he brought something totally different. But the thing that, I think, got him so far on Idol was because he was GOOD. I don't know how many people I really believe are going to see the AMA performance and go "Wow, that sucked, but it was weird as hell, so I like this guy!" Maybe some will have their interested piqued, maybe they'll be more inclined to pay attention, but the raw quality of the performance that he brought week after week on American Idol was simply not there. That's the difference between getting ears to perk up during the competition versus now. That's why I don't think you can compare them. So I think we're agreeing in a roundabout sort of way.

Updated On: 11/24/09 at 09:15 PM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 9:16pm

Wait a sec--are you seriously saying he didn't do anything before AI? And I'm not even referring to Rent.

Not at all. I know he's done a lot, but he didn't reach mainstream success the traditional blood, sweat and tears way. (A tradition which I understand is not the absolute anymore.) He had years of blood, sweat and tears, but in the end, a competition show gave him his platform. I just don't like AI, so it's probably a personal thing. By the time Madonna did the Like A Virgin performance, Borderline, Holiday, Lucky Star, etc., were all under her belt. Janet didn't really get that edgy until at least her third album. Maybe a performance like FYE would have been more appropriate after he's had a couple of singles on the charts.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 9:50pm

"Don't forget, Steve chose Kathie Lee for PUTTING IT TOGETHER! AND he got her to say "f*ck" to boot!"

Your point is well-taken, but Kathie Lee had no problem at all with "f*ck", which she suggested in place of "Godd@mmit!" - or was it "Jesus Christ!" - anyway she didn't want to take the lord's name in vain - she's fine with cursing.

To me this whole thing is a total tempest in a teapot, and I really, really don't get the idea that you have to "earn the right" to be sexualized. Shouldn't that go the other way around?. And really, who cares? Children shouldn't be watching the AMAs and if the adults don't like it, they can change the channel and vote with their wallets by not buying his stuff.

I honestly don't get the controversy. Who's shocked at this sort of thing these days?

eta I AM pissed, however, at being tricked into clicking on a Perez Hilton Link - now THAT offends me.
Updated On: 11/24/09 at 09:50 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 10:18pm

I think it was the "wait a goddamn minute" in "Could I Leave You?"

[snl89]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 10:26pm

" I agree with what you're saying about how he can push limits and gain new fans, absolutely. I mean, isn't that a summation of his entire trajectory to fame? Presumably people voted for him because he brought something totally different. But the thing that, I think, got him so far on Idol was because he was GOOD. I don't know how many people I really believe are going to see the AMA performance and go "Wow, that sucked, but it was weird as hell, so I like this guy!" Maybe some will have their interested piqued, maybe they'll be more inclined to pay attention, but the raw quality of the performance that he brought week after week on American Idol was simply not there. That's the difference between getting ears to perk up during the competition versus now. That's why I don't think you can compare them. So I think we're agreeing in a roundabout sort of way."

EXACTLY. Yes, thank you, you said what I was trying to say but better haha

And I see what you mean about the difference in scale. So yeah, he'll just have to learn a little bit about what works and what doesn't on a larger scale, that's all. Even back during the Zodiac show, I feel like one of his weaknesses is that when it comes to larger scale productions he DOES tend to like to go a little too over the top to the point where the visuals start taking away from the effect of the music itself. But the more he does it the more he'll start getting more savvy with what works and what doesn't.

But what he's been saying in interviews about this performance- and I totally believe him- is that he just got too excited! haha. He was pumped on adrenaline, inspired by Lady GaGa's performance, and in the moment I think he kind of just went "you know what? eff it, I'm throwing all caution to the wind and going out there and just having fun, doing whatever the heck I want". Which probably isn't the greatest mindset to be in in retrospect because, well, it led him to do a little too much haha, plus he said himself in an interview that it got the better of his voice. So yeah, I think he just needs to learn how to adjust when he's in that "throw all caution to the wind" mindset, and not let it get in the way of the quality of the performance.


For the record, I think the music video (which just premiered on his website) is a GREAT indication of what the performance could have been if better executed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx_w7fXeQ30

It's HOT. Still very risque, and yet.. it, unlike the performance, remains sexy rather than going into trashy territory. THAT is how that song can be sexy and awesome :)

Updated On: 11/24/09 at 10:26 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 10:53pm

I think he needs to learn how to balance his vocal prowess with shouldering that kind of spectacle. He's absolutely a natural performer and a very talented showman; he'll get there.

I'm so obsessed with the music video, oh my God.

[Q]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 11:37pm

This is a whole lot of free publicity.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 11:38pm

I LOVE the single and the video.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 11/24/09 at 11:59pm

"Not at all. I know he's done a lot, but he didn't reach mainstream success the traditional blood, sweat and tears way. (A tradition which I understand is not the absolute anymore.) He had years of blood, sweat and tears, but in the end, a competition show gave him his platform. I just don't like AI, so it's probably a personal thing."

I have to pick at this "I don't like AI" point that people try to make. Does it ever occur to people that American IdoL, in spite of its faults, often gives some very talented people a platform that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise NOT because of their lack of talent, but because they don't fit the bill as far as formula-based, image-oriented record labels are concerned? I'm sorry, but I hardly believe that Kelly Clarkson is any less talented than your typical pop star of the moment (in fact, I think she is significantly better than most) because she couldn't land a major record deal pre-American Idol. I think it's because nobody saw how to market a girl who isn't skinny, typically pretty, big-boobed, and selling sex. I mean...has it never occurred to anyone that Lambert could have encountered significant resistance from major labels BECAUSE he is shamelessly, unabashedly open about his sexuality? I'm not crazy about him, but the guy has some serious chops, and seems to have paid his dues, but in the end, it seems to me that he needed American Idol because record labels are not willing to take that much of a risk... not because he's any less talented than any other pop star out there.


Also, as others have said, and as I said in the OTHER thread about this...I don't believe for a second that this performance--forced as it's boldness felt--will hurt him. He's been the talk of the show, and gotten himself LOTS of attention from people who just didn't know or care before (myself, for example). No publicity is bad publicity, people.

The video is fun (and very Britney, I think). But it's so much better after seeing that AMA shock, isn't it? That couldn't have been on purpose at all...
Updated On: 11/25/09 at 11:59 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/25/09 at 12:23am

Does it ever occur to people that American IdoL, in spite of its faults, often gives some very talented people a platform that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise NOT because of their lack of talent, but because they don't fit the bill as far as formula-based, image-oriented record labels are concerned?

That has never occurred to me. And I simply don't believe it to be true.

[Q]

Posted: 11/25/09 at 12:34am

"they don't fit the bill as far as formula-based, image-oriented record labels are concerned"

Are there really examples of this? I don't watch, so I have no idea. But the people that get the publicity that bleeds into everything else don't seem to fit that scenario - in fact, they seem to fit right into the mainstream.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/25/09 at 12:40am

Sure, there are absolutely some very talented people that AI gives momentum to and I usually watch the finale. Kelly, Carrie and Daughtry are my favorites. (At least two of the three absolutely fit into the parameters of their genre.) But five of the eight winners have had mediocre careers at best. It just pulls these people from obscurity to FAME in weeks. It gives young artists a false sense of what it takes to make it. I did watch this season from start to finish and I usually loved Adam. I felt like he should have won. My friend's youth minister actually told his students to think long and hard before they voted because the American Idol had a huge platform and they needed to make sure they were promoting the right message. It's just too much of an obsession for some people.

All that said, I am sure I will watch this season for Ellen.

Updated On: 11/25/09 at 12:40 AM

[StockardFan]

Posted: 11/25/09 at 7:20am

Adam is going to be on the Early Show this morning for an interview about the AMA's and a performance. FYI.

[Craww]

Posted: 11/25/09 at 7:50am

That has never occurred to me. And I simply don't believe it to be true.

I don't understand why someone would choose not to believe something that Kelly Clarkson's career makes demonstratively true. To simplify, American Idol gives chances to homely pop vocalists and record labels do not. (Not saying record labels never sign ugly people, but they're usually in rock genres or have illustrated some significant songwriting talent.)

I get having pretensions about the importance of music in general, but it seems a little pointless to be pretentious about the genre of popular music these American Idol contestants are entering. Most of the people who so vehemently hate on American Idol still wouldn't listen to the music whether the pop artist came from a talent show or not. Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood aren't stealing spots in popular culture from your favorite band, they're stealing it from some gorgeous unknowns that the record label found through whatever means they find gorgeous pop starlets.

Pop culture is going to have meaningless pop drivel regardless, American Idol didn't create that. The music is the same, the means are different. If Daughtry didn't have a hit with a gross and formulaic alt-rock jam then it would just be Hinder or something. I'm not going to turn the dial any faster on Daughtry just because he was on a talent show.

[Q]

Posted: 11/25/09 at 8:41am

Craww - am I reading correctly that your argument is based on the idea that Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood are unattractive?