Bareback Mountain — Page 3

I never heard Hedwig lauded as the most important film for and about East German transsexual punk rock singers.

---

Well it was implied, what with it being the ONLY ONE and all, Kringas.

---

The word amongst gay cowboys of Wyoming has been very good, too, Kringas. I can refer you to a New York Times article, if you'd like.

---

Updated On: 1/6/06 at 08:06 PM

Then can you also agree you're being a dick?

---

And rednecks in Texas
And black guys in Brooklyn or Compton
And Greek boys in Queens
And Puerto Ricans in The Bronx
And Mexicans in Arizona
And Mormons in Utah
ETC ETC ETC ETC

---

Ah, PCB, you wish you knew how to quit me.

---

The hyperbole around Brokeback is something that's been foisted upon it though. I don't think they set out to make an "important" film, which is why the backlash has come about.

---

Well, it's significant enough to keep people debating about it. I'll say that much. I thought it was an excellent film (key word: film).

---

I don't see how BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN "celebrates" staying in the closet; seems the opposite to me. As Auggie pointed out, the theme of the story seems to be the devestating consequences of not being true to one's nature. Both protagonists live wasted lives because they let go of a good thing.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

If this is about Jack getting killed, I think it's pretty ambiguous in the movie (as it is in the short story) how he died. The only thing we're sure of is that Ennis suspects it was a hate crime, a fear stemming from his own childhood traumas. The audience is left to interpret it for themselves.

---

Updated On: 1/6/06 at 11:42 PM

JoeKv is making a big mistake in seeing this film as a 1950s gays are punished movie, whereas in fact it displays the relationship between two men in only the most positive and respectful manner. No one is the winner in this film, and certainly not Ennis, who has lost the love of his life because he stayed resolutely closted.

'rate the film on 3 levels, and I hope the rest of you can to:

1. As I feel about it as a gay man--the personal stuff that is probably unfair to place on the film's shoulders

2. As how I rate the film strictly artistically

3. As I feel the film fits into the politically landscape '

I think that's a great way to view this film...I just want to point out that it's possible to rate all of these things and still have a completely different opinion about them than most others. Much of what some of us are reacting to is not the films itself (although I still don't think it was particularly well made...too schematic for me...though pretty terrific performances), but the reaction to the film and the very real pressure some have been getting from others. Being told I'm heartless because I didn't like the movie is truly insulting. To say that, politically, I think the film isn't the huge step forward because it shows characters that are still victims...people to be pitied, instead of characters with strength...is being reacted to as if it's a heretical treatise. The fact that someone is killed in a gay bashing doesn't bother me in the least...the fact that both characters are weak bothers me.

As Jerby said, 'All art is political.' So, I really do think it's either naive or disingenuous to claim that these people had NO thought of politics in their minds while making this movie. Lee (and everyone else involved) is too smart to think this film wouldn't be used politically.

Because of what I perceive to be the artistic failing of this film (too schematic), I never felt the real, true love bond between these two men. I would have loved a scene of true intimacy...meaning hand-holding or something similarly simple, but powerful. But I never felt like I got that. Which would be fine, IF there were many more representations of gay men and women who do share that intimacy. That's the whole problem...we don't have the negative (in photographic terms) image of this movie out there as well. Everyone compares it to great doomed love stories like R&J and TITANIC and LOVE STORY. But the problem with that is, for every one of those, there's a WHEN HARRY MET SALLY, PRETTY WOMAN and WHAT'S UP, DOC?...delicious romantic comedies that give us another view of love and relationships. They exist together. Right now, BBM exists in a vacuum (sp?). It's THE representation of gay love to mainstream America.

Yes...I live in hope that it will change and BBM will soon co-exist w/ thrillers, romantic comedies, family movies and actions movies that prominently feature gay lead characters. And I'm grateful for this film's ability to spark a discussion. THAT is it's importance. The film will not change many hearts and minds. But honest discussion that comes about because of it may very well.

---

Well put, BlueWizard

SPOILER ALERT

We never know if the image of Jack being murdered is a real image, or Ennis' vision brought on by the guilt. Throughout the film, Ennis denies a life with Jack in fear of violence. In the end, he realizes that he may have been able to protect Jack from the violence had they had a life together. Jack may have never been in that situation had Ennis been with him. Instead, Jack starts a life with another man who may have not been able to protect him the way Ennis could have.

Updated On: 1/7/06 at 12:11 PM

Kringas --- one thing you keep bringing up that seems to be your primary objection to the film is that you're being "forced" to accept it as brilliant or Oscar-worthy.

Is the film itself doing this, or the media and PR "spinning machines?" Seems to me, if you're feeling force-fed you're blaming the wrong thing.

The film is what it is. You can like it, or not. It isn't forcing you to do anything.

I believe that the reaction to it is what has soured your experience, though. But honestly... Nobody in the gay community is demanding that you love and embrace this film. I'm sorry your having such an "allergic reaction" to it, but think it's due to many other things that have nothing to do with the film itself. Judge it on its own merit (or lack of it), and don't let the rest of the circus cloud your perception. There's a lot more playing into the spinning than "noble causes." This is Oscar season, and there are awards to be won and money to be made. Don't forget it plays into all of this heavily.

And two other notes:
1) My comparison to Schindler's List wasn't meant to offend anyone. My father is Jewish. He grew up in New Rochelle. While he wasn't in a concentration camp... He was held at gunpoint at the age of seven by his Nazi-sympathizing chauffeur for over an hour before being released. It scarred him and haunted him for life. I understand, in a small way, perhaps more than many of you do, the direct affects of the Holocaust.

2) While Brokeback's story is fictional, the persecution and guilt these characters faced is realized every day by countless individuals.

---