Election 2024- Page 35

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 4:36pm

“You can NEVER hope to have an understanding of our political system”

Seriously… does anybody?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 4:39pm

Trump “acted like a man”, says Purin.

 

[binau]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 4:41pm

I have never hid the fact that I am not from the US, I just don't want to go into details because I find it a bit, to your use words, creepy. I agree with you there are some things I will never truly understand about the US. However, I love the US, I have spent a lot of time in the US. I love the accomplishments of the US and the contribution to the world. I truly believe it's the greatest and most influential country in the world. I first started getting interested in US politics when I realised that you don't enjoy many of the privileges that many countries outside the US, and genuinely didn't realise until the 2016 primaries that you don't have public healthcare or a high minimum wage or accessible higher education.

I believed and fought with people here at the time that Bernie Sanders should have been the 2016 democratic nominee because Hilary Clinton would be a conservative politician in any other context.

I saw early signs that there was something wrong with the Democratic Party when I watched how they tried to sabotage Bernie for Hillary (e.g. leaked DNC emails). However, I was probably naive at the time as Bernie may never have been elected in a general election and it should have been Hillary, not Trump. I watched the shocking final year of the Trump presidency between COVID and the insurrection knowing he had to go and finally thought sanity would be restored with Biden. It's been disheartening to watch the Democratic Party slowly decline and slip away and I could see this train wreck coming. I genuinely appreciate that some of you have allowed me to indulge my frustrations on this forum, even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear because I know it's annoying to have someone rain on the parade.

Now is the time for the Democratic Party to prepare itself for 2028. I think they can do it if the party leadership first stop putting their own interests before the interests of the party and people. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 4:49pm

We’ve got 2026 to deal with first! :)

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 4:57pm

This article is a bit long, but it illustrates why I am proud to be a Californian (but not by birth).  Our Governor always has our best interests in mind, and I'm looking forward to the results of these efforts.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/07/politics/california-governor-special-session-trump-presidency/index.html

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 5:44pm

#Newson2028

(Although what did he ever see in Kimberly Guilfoyle… ?)

[Pauly3]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 5:45pm

Some 70% of the electorate believe the country was headed in the wrong direction.  Given this is the case, any candidate tied to the Biden/Harris administration did not stand a good chance of winning.  If this was the only problem the Democrat party and their supporters faced, Harris would likely have won.  Because Trump was such a bad candidate.  But this wasn't the only problem.

Despite Trump's many issues, many believe they were better off in Trump's first 3 years than in Biden's.  That's a problem, too.  If this was the only other problem, Harris may still have won.

Some of you blame racism and misogyny as a significant factor in your loss.  Have you thought about what would have happened had Biden not been replaced?  He would have received fewer votes than Harris.  Do you doubt that?  Do the math.  The white man would have received fewer votes than the woman of color, yet the reason Harris lost is because of her race and gender?  I suppose if you think Harris was a far better candidate than Biden, then that is how you might counter what I just said.  Face it, she was not a good candidate.  Not before she was appointed, and never after. Notwithstanding all the A-list celebrity endorsements and other elitist finger-pointing.

Have you thought about what the outcome would have been had the Republicans put up a decent candidate?  Harris would have lost by an even greater margin.  Because Harris was a generically bad candidate, who could not separate herself from Biden - not because she was a bad woman of color candidate.

There's nothing racist or sexist going on here.  To state otherwise is foolish and reflects poorly on you, not the opposition.  And push back against this sort of nonsense is partly WHY your candidate lost.

The 70% problem, the "better off during Trump's 3 years" problem, the bad candidate problem, and the baseless racist assertions problem you all bring upon the Democrat party, combined, put Harris in an extraordinarily bad position to win.  Even against the evil Trump.  Race or sex had nothing to do with why enough people did not vote for Harris.

Some of you really believe 70+ million people are stupid and/or evil?  You're going to keep poking the bear?  HARRIS LOST BECAUSE OF THIS ABSURD BEHAVIOR.  Turns out people don't like being called racist and sexist and stupid and evil.  They won't put up with it, for very long.

It's not difficult to understand why so many people backed the evil Trump.  The man is tireless and relentless, and no one pushes back in a bigger way than Trump does.  His giant middle finger directed back at so many of you and those like you WAS a SIGNIFICANT factor in this race.

You just don't get it, and you never learn.  You are your own worst enemies.

There's also this:

"It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right."

--Bernie Sanders

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 5:55pm

If the GOP had put up a “decent" candidate, then Kamala would have won. It’s Trump‘s indecency that swung it.

[Pauly3]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 6:12pm

Jay, you refuse to see Harris was simply a bad candidate in an extraordinarily bad situation - all with YOUR party.  The problems in my party can be incredibly bad, but they aren't the reason you lost.  Your are free to contribute to divisiveness and ignore the lessons history can teach.  It will be to your peril more so than mine, if you ignore what's right in front of you.

[binau]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 3:24am

Nancy P finally saying it how it is. Shame on Biden. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 9:37am

"Nancy P finally saying it how it is. Shame on Biden."

Really. People around Biden and the media kept insisting Biden was "sharp as a tack" mentally and physically fit. Anybody with two eyes and ears have known for years Biden was in decline but many chose to ignore it. Biden got exposed in the debate and then all heck broke loose. There were other solutions to picking nominee other than appointing Harris. Make the Democratic convention "open" and let the delegates to the convention decide the nominee. Not totally ideal solution but at least nominee would have received votes from actual voters. Harris would have probably won but it would have been a better look if she actually won the nomination.

If you want to shame a Biden, it is Jill. She knows damn well the condition of her husband but chose to let him go through this process and sadly look foolish. IMO, she loved being FLOTUS more than her husband wanted to be POTUS.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 10:12am

Pauly, Zep, tell us…

Is there ANY Democrat you would have consideted voting for?

If not, well then your analyses don’t really count for much.

[ACL2006]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 10:46am

I had a conversation with a co-worker yesterday about why people despise Dumpster so much in regards to him potentially taking away LGBTQ+ rights. He said, "well, that wouldn't effect me". To which I said, "well, for me, it effects a lot of people I know and that's why we're so angry now".

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 11:23am

You co-worker is ignorant.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 11:52am

"Pauly, Zep, tell us… Is there ANY Democrat you would have consideted voting for? If not, well then your analyses don’t really count for much."

Before he decided not to run for re-election, I always liked Joe Manchin (West Virginia). Sadly, Democratic party has swung way too left for me. Many years ago, I could have easily voted for guys like Joe Lieberman or Tom Daschle. I did vote for Bill Clinton in his 2nd term.

Your turn Jay, tell us a Republican you would consider voting for?

Updated On: 11/9/24 at 11:52 AM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 12:07pm

Interesting vote totals. Arizona is still counting votes but let's say that 99% of the country has had their vote counted. At this point, Trump only has 79,000 votes (74,303,389) more than he did in 2020 (74,224,319). Harris at this time has a shade under 11 million less votes (70,373,209) than Biden (81,284,666). Funny thing is about 11 million less people have voted in 2024 (approx. 155 million) compared to 2020 (approx. 144 million) and that is about the same difference in the Democratic vote. Wonder where those votes went, quite a lot considering there was just as much interest this year as 2020. If you have at least one cynical bone in your body you might think something was "fishy" -lol. Yes, I think Biden legitimately won but that is sure a funny coincidence.

 

[Pauly3]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 2:05pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Pauly, Zep, tell us…
Is there ANY Democrat you would have consideted voting for?
If not, well then your analyses don’t really count for much."

 

Absolutely, I would have voted for a Democrat in this election, if not for an incredibly large set of issues that existed in this election, some of which I addressed above - that you summarily dismissed.  My best example as I recall listening to Dean Philips back when he was attempting to participate in the Democrat primary (which the Democrat machine had no interest in letting him participate in, you know, because Democrats love democracy so much), I found him to be rather reasonable, and he inspired confidence that he was competent.  I'd have taken a "rather reasonable" and "competent" Democrat over Trump all day long.

I think Philips is a guy that could still play an important role in fixing some of the problems within the Democrat party, if only Democrats would wise up.

I don't mind answering most any question, but bluntly, your "gotcha" questions are childish.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 3:30pm

Except that Kamala is reasonable and competent. She even pandered to swing voters so hard that she lost integrity with many who lean left.

Anyway, it’s not a gotcha question - it’s an actual question. If your answer is yes, you’d vote Democrat… but only if they are right-leaning… seems odd to me. I don’t comprehend. Red Democrat is an oxymoron.

Worse still, you rule out Dems for not being “reasonable” and “competent” - and then vote for an egomaniac who is neither of those things!

And no, Zeppie, I would never vote for a Republican. Not even Liz Cheney or Ana Navarro. While I don’t doubt that they are decent people, their policies just do not align with my own conscience.

Updated On: 11/9/24 at 03:30 PM

[Pauly3]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 4:26pm

Dean Phillips is not "right-leaning".  He is a full-fledged Democrat and voted like a full-fledged Democrat.  Like Harris, you are too often unprepared to think on your feet and address a competent argument.

Harris does relatively well when prepared, such as was the case with the debate.  But when thinking on her feet, she is terrible!  And she too often did NOT prepare for questions she had to know were coming.  That's incompetence.  You choose to see her when she's (infrequently) at her best, and ignore her worst.  She can't commit to the slightest controversial side of an issue, with the exception of abortion, because she constantly panders to both factions of her messed up party.  No one knows what she truly believes in.  All of this is demonstration of incompetence.

While Trump is way too often unreasonable, he has certainly demonstrated competence.  Hating him does not disqualify his competence.  His administration targeted Roe v Wade, and as a result of his administration, Roe v Wade is now dead.  Like it or not, THAT was a demonstration of competence.  Extraordinarily important issues, such as his economy, his border, and his impact on foreign affairs was better than Biden's, and Harris agreed with everything Biden did. Not just during, but even right up to this election.  You, and so many like you, ignored that prior to the election, and that fact, in large part, cost you the election.

Incompetence, within the Democrat party and with Harris herself is why she lost.  No one has made a remotely decent argument that suggests otherwise.  Certainly not here, and not across all media either.  Asserting all sorts of other reasons, derived from feelings instead of evidence, won't get it done.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 7:45pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "And no, Zeppie, I wouldnevervote for a Republican. Not even Liz Cheney or Ana Navarro. While I don’t doubt that they are decent people, their policies just do not align with my own conscience."

As I've said before, since 2004 when Bush leveraged pure anti-gay bigotry to win reelection, it has not been possible for a Republican (candidate, voter, whatever) to claim to be anything other than pure garbage.

Updated On: 11/9/24 at 07:45 PM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 11:02pm

"As I've said before, since 2004 when Bush leveraged pure anti-gay bigotry to win reelection, it has not been possible for a Republican (candidate, voter, whatever) to claim to be anything other than pure garbage."

Really. John McCain was "garbage". Nice of you to say that about war veteran that was POW. Mitt Romney is "garbage", people may disagree with him, but I think most would say he is a very decent man. You do know "Kdogg" that Obama was against gay marriage when he ran for POTUS. Bill Clinton signed the "Defense of Marriage Act". Are these two "pure garbage". 

Updated On: 11/9/24 at 11:02 PM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 11:12pm

"I would never vote for a Republican. Not even Liz Cheney or Ana Navarro. While I don’t doubt that they are decent people, their policies just do not align with my own conscience."


Liz Cheney like a few other Republicans (Michael Steele, Joe Scarborough etc.) lose relevance within the party and then find they can become a media darling and possibly earn big bucks by trashing Trump, Bush etc. Listen to Steele and Scarborough in recent years on liberal networks as compared to their days in the Republican party. They did not change views due to principal; they became "sellouts" -lol.

Updated On: 11/9/24 at 11:12 PM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 11/9/24 at 11:20pm

"Although what did he ever see in Kimberly Guilfoyle… ?)"

She was attractive woman back then who had a good job (Assistant DA), and I assume fairly intelligent. They were divorced because of Newsom having an affair.

[ACL2006]

Posted: 11/10/24 at 10:03am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "You co-worker is ignorant."

So are most of the people that voted for him. The most google searched item since Wednesday is "how does a tariff work?". Typical Republican don't care about anyone outside of their circle. When trying to explain to people why so many are hurt over this election, it's typically followed up with "well, that doesn't concern me" or "he's not going to do that". I'm an optimist, but I can't shake this felling in my gut that things aren't going to end up well under his Presidency.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/10/24 at 11:22am

I don’t know why, but I’m accepting this loss better than expected. I remember back in 2016 it felt like I’d been kicked in the chest by a horse. That lasted for days. Now I’m just numb. Numb and in denial, probably. I guess the last eight years have inoculated me to some degree, or else I’ve just given up.

Updated On: 11/10/24 at 11:22 AM