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#76

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 6:38pm

Agreed about Ms. Cotillard's brilliance. She's the sole reason to watch this silly movie.

Ms. Cotillard has pulled off an unprecedented feat. Withing twelve months, she has emergerd not only unscathed but actually triumphant from films by Christopher (The Downer King) Nolan and Rob (Worst Director Alive) Marshall.

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/

#77

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 6:46pm

Roscoe--I hope her career continues to flourish. I agree, she has faced a lot creative "adversity" and emerged not only unscathed, but triumphant.

Perhaps, she will be our generation's "Sophia Loren."

I wish her a long and successful career. She certainly has proven herself worthy of it.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#78

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 7:02pm

Mal is Latin for evil, besty, so I agree with you on the symbolism of her name.

If the top doesn't stop spinning in the end, then everything we spent 2.5 hours following and enjoying makes no sense. I mentioned before that none of the pieces fit in that interpretation and to shoehorn any logic into it requires an acceptance of absurd coincidences and plot holes.

I don't believe that Nolan really wants that to be his point. I think he (sloppily) thought "wouldn't it be cool to leave everyone with a sense of total ambiguity?" not recognizing that by doing so he undermines any constructive provocation that the movie has to offer.

It's a clever notion to play with for an hour or so, but in the end I believe that the top did fall down.

....but the world goes 'round

#79

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 7:09pm

One more point about the character names that I saw in a review (I think it was EW)

Mal = evil

Robert Fisher (Cillian Murphy) = chess master, a commentary on the intricacy of the plot

Any thoguhts on what Dom Cobb, Arthur, Eames, Saito and Adriane may symbolize?

....but the world goes 'round

#80

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 7:10pm

Well, I heard it wobble a bit Taz ... but I didn't see it fall down. Not even slightly.

*mind f*ck*

Even as rudimentary as Roscoe says. Its a total mind f*ck.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#81

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 7:29pm

Ellen Page's name is Ariadne, who was a Greek goddess married to Dionysis.

#82

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 7:52pm

None of this was accidental.

You can call it trite and unrealized, but there's still an awful lot of thought behind this garden variety summer blockbuster.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#83

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 9:42pm

Then on the way home I wondered why the original architect chose a city during a riot for the landscape. That seemed a little random, but I know nothing in this movie is random.

Taz, when Ariadne is first learning about controlling dreams Cobb tells her that the projections all staring at her indicates the dream is changing and the dreamer is becoming away he is dreaming and that it gets worse the more it happens and eventually the projections will attack you. After that was all explained I took the city with the riot to be Saito's dream falling apart and him becoming aware of what's happening because as the riot was happening they were just throwing Moltovs and cars and no one was rushing buildings (that we were shown) then as they arrive where Cobb and Arthur and Saito are they decide to storm the building and enter the room.

Also. LOVED the movie. It was an absolute blast.

#84

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/25/10 at 11:38pm

I was really impressed with the film. I haven't stopped thinking about it since I saw it on Friday. The only problem with the film was that I often found myself furrowing my brow in thought... and then I'd have to consciously smooth it back out every time I saw Leo DiCaprio and the Marianas Trench of forehead creases hangin' out between his eyebrows.

In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy

#85

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/27/10 at 10:36pm

I literally just walked in from the movie and I know I need to process it... so I'm sure my opinions will chance once i start reading/thinking about it more. I also can't wait to read all of this thread more in depth. My head literally hurts right now trying to process the movie.

Initial thoughts? I definitely think/want to think it was reality at the end. Maybe that's the optimist in me but I like to think that in the end Mal got what she wanted, and Cobbs got what he wanted. But maybe in that regard, it doesnt even matter if it was reality or a dream.... he was with his kids and he saw their face and he was able to interact with them. Which is what he really wanted. So does it matter if it was a reality or a dream?

#86

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/28/10 at 8:35am

bethnor - I think you're completely wrong about it not mattering whether or not the end is a dream - I think that point is what the entire perception the audience has of the movie necessarily hinges on: what is reality and what isn't? How much of what happened came from Cobb and how much, if any, was reality?

again, my problem with the film is that reality and dreams were so alike that the distinction was irrelevant to me. i very nonchalantly agreed with mal when she pointed out to cobb that his "real" world was full of anonymous corporations, etc., etc. it wasn't a stretch at all to believe that reality was a dream or vice versa as they were basically the same. i think it's very telling that some viewers think of "mission impossible" after seeing this movie; you could lift any scene and comfortably place it in any other "caper" movie and it would fit just fine.

other films have done a far better job of blurring the lines between what's real and what's not, like pan's labyrinth. you have no choice but to accept that ophelia used the chalk to escape from the room, but at the same time something like that can't happen in the "real" world.

here's the trailer for "limbo" for the xbox, which contains the elements i felt were lacking in "inception": a world which doesn't contain a ton of fantastical elements so it can seem real, but at the same time there are undercurrents of something terribly, terribly wrong, that the character is trapped in something he can't escape from, a world that is both real and abstract:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-0w8I-oAc

#87

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/28/10 at 5:46pm

Ariadne was much more than just the wife of Dionysus. She was also the woman who helped Theseus escape from the Minotaur's labyrinth.

I thought I would post this here, since it might be a pretty big clue that it was all a dream. Though I already noticed the way they play with the song 'Non, je ne regrette rien' during the final twenty minutes as they go deeper and deeper into the dream levels (they made the song resonate differently in each level), I had no idea how far it went.

A possible (musical) cue

Updated On: 7/28/10 at 05:46 PM

#88

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/28/10 at 5:50pm

I don't think if the top doesn't stop spinning that indicates the entire movie was a dream. Just that Cobb hasn't woken up since the last time he went under on the plane.

#89

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/28/10 at 7:21pm

I DID NOT CARE for this movie...it put me to sleep...maybe it was over my head, but I did not like it.

#90

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/29/10 at 7:47am

I walked out thinking: THIS is a movie that begs to be seen more than once to truly appreciate and "get". But as I sit here the morning after, as it were, I am thinking of the movies flaws more and more. However, are they flaws if Cobb is STILL dreaming? For example: I think of how Page's character 1. simply accepted everything and 2. how she was also an expert in psychology?

I'm thinking.

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

#91

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/29/10 at 7:52am

I think it's a brilliant film, because it has people talking, discussing, trading ideas. When was the last time a film did that? I have yet to fully wrap my head around all the concepts floating around in this film, yes, it begs to be seen more than once. Is Cobb still dreaming at the end or is it reality. It's up to the viewer, Nolan wanted us to end his film. That's my take on it, so far....until I see it again.

#92

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/29/10 at 9:20am

The movie did have flaws.... for me the biggest flaw was when The Forger (the funny guy who's name has escaped me at the moment....sorry, just poured my coffee) was able to conviently shift into other people (The older man, the younger woman etc). But I think with a movie like this you need to just accept the minor flaws and look at the bigger picture. I need to go back and see this again asap. Hopefully I can go early next week.

EDIT: Interesting article a friend sent me about the movie.... I don't know if I fully buy it but it def made think twice about certain part. http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

For example, I forgot when he was on a chase through the streets....that was suppsedly his reality but the author does make a valid argument for his reality being a dream, especially in that scene. I really need to see this movie again.

Updated On: 7/29/10 at 09:20 AM

#93

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/29/10 at 12:14pm

I don't see this movie getting major Oscar noms - lots of tech catogories, maybe best Score and a supporting nom for Cotillard, but NOT best picture, director or screenplay.

#94

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/29/10 at 12:28pm

I think with 10 Best Picture Nominees it does have a definite chance of getting a nomination.

#95

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/31/10 at 12:55am

*****SPOILERS****

I'm going with the "all a dream" hypothesis. The whole film has the internal logic of dreams which never seem to make sense when placed in the waking world of reality.( ie this analysis) Still, for the most part- we accept this when we are in the dream itself. Hence all the inconsistancies are perfectly fine as long as it's all a dream. The symbolisim of the names: Caine's Miles- who travels miles without explanation ( also it's never clear who's parent he is- another "missing" detail)
Eames- a furniture/architectural designer:""But you can go beyond that and the guys that have not only means, but a certain amount of knowledge and understanding, go the next step and they eat off of a banana leaf. And I think that in these times when we fall back and regroup, that somehow or other, the banana leaf parable sort of got to get working there, because I'm not prepared to say that the banana leaf that one eats off of is the same as the other eats off of, but it's that process that has happened within the man that changes the banana leaf. ""
Ariadne has already been commented on - the lady who solved the problem of the Minotaur maze with her Golden Thread.
Dom- translates to Lord-'nuff said.
When I first heard them talk about Mal- I first heard it as "maul" "Maul, the act of causing severe bodily injuries, often in relation to an animal attack"" She is almost the Id from the old Forbidden Planet in her power to destroy/ manipulate Dom as a result of his guilt. ( guilt is not logical- he feels guilty therefore he is -to himself)Yusuf is a prophet in the Koran - his story begins with a dream and ends with the dream's interpretation. God gave Yusuf the ability to interpret dreams.

The view of the children- he will not look at their faces until he has resolved his guilt- earned his expiation. And yes the scene with the children in the garden is identical each time.
(actually it reminded me a little of Brokeback that way when Ennis hears about Jack Twist's death and "sees" it in his mind- Jack is wearing the same shirt as when they first met)
The issue re the totem does not seem relevant- tho Ariadne is shown making one ,it is to be presumed that Saito ( another symbolic name) does not have one, and no one else but Dom uses it for the "dream/reality" differentation. That being said- I think Nolan is deliberately being ambiguous w the ending- those "skipping" sounds we hear were very obviously Foleyed in as the top has not changed in its rotations ( ie tilting slipping slowing down) The fact that Dom spins it and leaves it- he has abandoned "reality" to be withhis children.

All in- I liked it alot. Cillian Murphy had some beautiful moments. I have always like Joseph Gorden Levitt and this film conts that appreciation. Cottard- what a performer! Totally believe her as a Euridyce that Leo's Dom could not relinquish.
Ready to see it again!

#96

INCEPTION

Posted: 7/31/10 at 3:05am

For example: I think of how Page's character 1. simply accepted everything and 2. how she was also an expert in psychology?

1. These people obviously live in a world where things like delving into the dreams of others can exist. If inventions like that can exist, there must be some other futuristic inventions that exist that make the possibility of dream diving easy to accept.

2. Ariadne's psychoanalyses were incredibly trite, but it's something I was personally able to overlook in the grand scheme of things.

#97

INCEPTION

Posted: 8/2/10 at 7:14pm

****spoiler****

Dom's children being in the same spots,having not aged and wearing the same clothes (am I mistaken?) led me to the conclusion that he was still dreaming. At that age, with him presumably being gone for a while, they would have at least grown.

Pretty pretty please don't you ever ever feel like you're less than f**ckin' perfect!

#98

INCEPTION

Posted: 8/2/10 at 9:23pm

The clothes were similar, not the same though....

#99

INCEPTION

Posted: 8/2/10 at 9:35pm

This may be my eyes fooling me but I swear when seeing the movie for a second time I noticed that the children, while looking the same, were switching off clothes with both children wearing either a horizontal horizontal stripe t-shirt and plaid short-sleeve shirt. That might have been just the son but I swear I saw the daughter also have a t-shirt at one point.

#100

INCEPTION

Posted: 8/2/10 at 9:40pm

You're right. I think his first glance at them made it appear that he was seeing them exactly as he had so many times before, but when they moved, there were subtle changes in clothes. The girl's dress which had been solid pink before was now a pink jumper over a white t-shirt. The boy's plaid shirt was very similar. And they had absolutely aged. Very subtle, but well done.

Pretty pretty please don't you ever ever feel like you're less than f**ckin' perfect!

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