Morrissey: "I See No Difference Between Eating Meat and Pedophilia"- Page 2

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 4:12pm

For those who eat meat, here's are some good guidelines to follow in terms of which companies are humane and those who aren't.

http://www.stopfactoryfarms.org/which-companies-use-humanely-raised-meat/

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 4:22pm

" A cow, like a chicken, is not meant to simply die of old age. To ignore the ways in which they are useful is insulting to the animal."

Wha?? I sorta could get behind the rest of your post, but this just throws me. I assume you mean "domesticated" animals, the same way someone would say dogs were "created" over years by people and owning one is different, than, say, grabbing a wolf from the wilds and putting him on a leash. But... I still can't wrap my head around this.

I admit I feel a bit guilty about my vegetarian. I became one when I was 11 or so after watching some meat expose on tv--much to the annoyance of my family (though honestly I think it got them to eat meat in the long run--they were much more annoyed with the fact that I wouldn't wear leather shoes, etc, and as an adult I understand that much more since as a kid it didn't really occur to me that these items were still all being bought for me, of course.)

In the past ten years or so I've become more of a pesco/ovotarian (if that's the term.) I still try to be conscientious in my choices--and it certainly helps that now I live on the West Coast and have a better income (I get my milk and eggs from a sorta post hippy farm owned by family friends)--as a student in Montreal that would have been much harder.

I do think it's a choice everyone has to make for themselves (as I think most on here are saying) and it doesn't bother me if someone is aware and tries to make good choices with where they get their meat, though I do think it's always hard to make those choices. (And that said, I would never lecture a friend who stops by at a fast food burger place when we are leaving the bar, or something. I've said this before on here, but while I certainly do know some annoying militant vegetarians who will lecture at a BBQ, I have encountered many more people at parties who somehow casually find out I'm a vegetarian and feel they have to explain to me why people are meant to eat meat, etc, and get defensive out of some sort of repressed guilt I can only imagine.)

I like Namo's comparison with the sweat shop situation actually, something I've never really thought about. I think there's no real way for even the most careful vegan to never purchase something that harms animals, etc. But I think it is good to be aware of these things.

(And no, it's not remotely the same as sexual abuse, rape, microwaving your children or whatever other nonsense Morrissey says. I like a lot of his music--though more The Smiths--but even with his protests and insistence that he simply turns and walks away when a carnivore talks to him or whatever, he must realize in some part of his brain that these deplorable people are still helping support his career and lifestyle.)

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 4:44pm

Eric, I respect everything you say and I admire you for your resolve. But in this country, I don't think most people equate a domestic animal like a dog or cat with a cow or chicken. I grew up in a farming community and observed my farmer friends and how they treated their animals, both domestic and livestock, in different way. They were extremely kind to both but they made their living off the one and the other was for companionship. As I opined in my original comment, if cows and chicken aren't put on earth to give us their various gifts, then why are they here at all? They don't bring anything to the eco-system, like eating harmful insects or keeping nature in balance. I think the creator or god or whatever got it right: let's put some stuff down there to sustain human life. I feel the same way about minks (with due respect to PETA). If not for their pelts, why are they here? But I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree because you're always extremely thoughtful.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 4:46pm

"as a student in Montreal that would have been much harder."

Le Comensal, mon frère!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 4:54pm

Oh, I went there! There was also this vegie restaurant close to the village with kitschy decorations and tin foil on the wall that I liked (though it had a set menu--you could ask for large, medium or small options but if you didn't finish all of your food you had to donate ten dollars or something to charity which always made me terribly nervous that I would not finish... Heaven knows why--I always did, but I guess at the time ten dollars meant I could buy more drinks later at the bar... Sigh.) I was sad to see it closed when I went back to the city last Summer.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 4:58pm

I remember when the ten dollars got you a REAL private dance at Campus!! Salut, Tars, wherever you are!!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 5:21pm

I don't think cows or chickens were put on this earth so much as they evolved.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 6:05pm

Seriously? They were put here for food? That's your argument? I don't even know where to start...

[bobs3]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 6:36pm

NOTE TO EVERYONE:

THERE IS (EMPHASIS ON IS) A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EATING MEAT AND PEDOPHILIA!!!!!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 6:39pm

He would have made a lot more sense if he had said "Eating meat is like cannibalism."

But then he wouldn't be Morrissey.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:00pm

Wilmington, I appreciate the civil tone of your reply and that you actually answered my questions.

" As I opined in my original comment, if cows and chicken aren't put on earth to give us their various gifts, then why are they here at all? They don't bring anything to the eco-system, like eating harmful insects or keeping nature in balance. I think the creator or god or whatever got it right: let's put some stuff down there to sustain human life."

I guess I just have a very hard time thinking of things being put on earth *only* so I can exploit them. Of course that could be taken to extremes--I suppose I do think that I'm meant to exploit (if that word could be used) umm carrots. Which sounds dirty. But regardless, I don't think that is the only reason they are put there. But, as I've said, I don't think there are any real easy answers--I am picky with the food I feed my cat but I'm not about to force him not to eat meat (and I honestly know people who do this--you can guess how well it works.) And a lot of pet food is made in extremely non-humane ways--but as incredible smart, witty and handsome as I find my cat, I also don't quite give him enough credit to choose not to grab a bird or two when I leave the balcony open or choose a vegetarian diet.

I'm talking in circles...

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:01pm

"I remember when the ten dollars got you a REAL private dance at Campus!! Salut, Tars, wherever you are!!"

Oh, Namo, how old ARE you? They were at least fifteen by the time I lived there. (Campus is, of course, still around and, umm, kicking.)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:03pm

Well PJ if you read all of his rational argument (shame on you if you didn't) he also equates it to cannibalism--specifically cooking your own babies in microwaves. Maybe this is all just a big Swiftian piece of satire trying to raise general awareness of what we eat. (Except, it's obviously not.)

[bethnor]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:10pm

ultimately, the problem with eating meat is an ethical one. we are basically breeding intelligent creatures to kill them and consume them. if you wouldn't eat your dog, why is okay to eat a cow or a pig?

but there is a larger economical one that presses now, too. with 1 acre of land, you can feed only two people with meat. you can feed 20 with grain.

some of you are reading about the superbugs for which there are no antibiotics. a large portion of this problem stems from antibiotics being put into animal feed. this breeds resistance in their flora, and then gives it to you when you consume it. then there is a huge amount of animal fecal material that is being drained into the water supply from mass farming. between all of this, meat eating simply is not sustainable. many of you have probably heard how we are overfishing the oceans, as well. within a few decades, all that we may be able to get from the oceans are jellyfish. mmmmm.

but we can also admit that, at this time, the technology to totally replace meat is not yet there. perhaps in 50-100 years or so. in the meantime, each person can do their part. try to minimize the amount of meat you eat; we are all probably eating way too much meat anyway. try to eat organic to protest the use of antibiotics in animal feed. this is also why people have to be reasonable about it; as demonstrated by an earlier thread, eating organic is expensive, and if it's not in the budget, people should be understanding. if there is something that is being overfished/overharvested, don't eat it.

lastly, people on this board in particular, should avoid using the "natural" argument. the first fallacy of the "natural" argument is that it assumes that "natural" = "right." earthquakes, smallpox, and HIV are also "natural," but we don't need more of those.

oh, and if you have a scorpion or spider problem, chickens are a very green solution.

Updated On: 1/4/14 at 07:10 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:24pm

Sometimes I just want to squish up my doggy's face and eat her right up yes I do yes I DO who's papa's girl? WHO'S papa's girl?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:36pm

" if you wouldn't eat your dog, why is okay to eat a cow or a pig? "

Because cows and pigs are delicious.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 7:49pm

In some cultures, dogs and cats ARE eaten. How about in China where diners in a restaurant are seated at a round table, a monkey is placed in a hole in the center of the table, its head sliced away on top while the diners eat the brains out.

Just typing that is sickening.

[bethnor]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 8:35pm

Because cows and pigs are delicious.

so are dogs and cats, though i have not had the relevant gustatory experience. anything is good if you deep fat fry it. boiling puppies alive is considered a delicacy in some areas of china. the adrenaline enhances the taste of the meat, apparently.

if any of you decide to visit those areas of the world with your pet, do keep it on a short leash. your pets can and will be kidnapped to be fed to smiling diners.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164353/Horrific-images-dogs-killed-cooked-served-meal-sick-Chinese-tradition.html Updated On: 1/4/14 at 08:35 PM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 8:50pm

I'll pick you all up some horse in the cold cut section of the grocery tomorrow.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 9:06pm

Only if it's the carriage horses from nyc!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 9:27pm

If cats and dogs are so "delicious", why haven't we been eating them in the West for the past couple of millennia? There must be some reason our ancestors decided they were better used to catch mice and track game. (I'm sure exceptions have been made in times of famine, but I'm speaking in general. We didn't just get sentimental about cats and dogs all of a sudden.)

I wish I could claim to live up to best12's and namo's ethical standards on this subject. Alas, I cannot.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 9:33pm

I don't always live up to the standards. My shoes are leather. I don't avoid something that has gelatin in it. I can't afford much in the way of clothing not made in the developing world. I'm just happier knowing I'm not part of the chain of mechanized beheading machines that are supposed to pick up chickens by one leg and quickly lop off their heads, but since they are sentient beings they move their heads and aren't killed so they are boiled alive to remove their feathers. It's stuff like that there that I'm glad I'm not a part of. That and my great cholesterol.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 9:36pm

I think it's simply, Gaveston, that over the years people in some cultures grew attached to their dogs, cats (and horses) that they had partially domesticated and formed a connection with. I have no idea if these animals taste good, but with the horse meat scandal in Europe nobody seemed to particularly complain about the taste. So I do think we did get sentimental about them over the years--not so suddenly, though. Of course some of it (not in the cases of horses) some of it was practicality. It's easy to keep a group of cows, chickens, etc, and farm them. It's not so easy to form a colony of cats, fence them in and feed off them.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 9:38pm

I bet ALF could.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/4/14 at 9:43pm

Alf should make a list on how cats compare to other animals.

I have trouble with gelatin myself. I only recently discovered that my favorite yogourt has gelatin--I just had never bothered to check though I found a decent other brand that doesn't. But there are other things I eat that I'm pretty certain contain gelatin. (Can't they make some cancer inducing, cheap chemical version??) ANd I'll admit fake leather products aren't nearly as nice as real leather (I suppose it's good I've never gotten into the leather scene...)