'You LIE!'- Page 2

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:24pm

Wilson has issued an apology:




http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/09/wilson-apologizes-i-let-my-emotions-get-the-best-of-me/ Updated On: 9/9/09 at 10:24 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:26pm

He's still an asshole.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:31pm

Right. Now he's an asshole and a hypocrite.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:31pm

Apology or not.....he said it. Like theatrefan said, "still an asshole"

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:32pm

I'm impressed. It's the first non-adultery-related Republican apology I can remember in 15 years.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:34pm

I'd like to hear Michelle tell him off.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:36pm

I want to her to go sneaky & juvenile. Light a flaming bag of dog crap on his door stop.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:45pm

Nail his ass. He could be in deep SH*T!


Decorum in the House and in Committees

Under clause 1(a)(1) of Rule XI .... Members should comport themselves with the rules of decorum and debate in the House and in Committees specifically with regard to references to the President of the United States as stated in Section 370 of the House Rules and Manual.

As stated in Cannon?s Precedents, on January 27, 1909, the House adopted a report in response to improper references in debate to the President. That report read in part as follows:

"It is... the duty of the House to require its Members in speech or debate to preserve that proper restraint which will permit the House to conduct its business in an orderly manner and without unnecessarily and unduly exciting animosity among its Members or antagonism from those other branches of the Government with which the House is correlated."

snip

Under section 370 of the House Rules and Manual it has been held that a Member could:

* refer to the government as "something hated, something oppressive."
* refer to the President as "using legislative or judicial pork."
* refer to a Presidential message as a "disgrace to the country."
* refer to unnamed officials as "our half-baked nitwits handling foreign affairs."

Likewise, it has been held that a member could not:

* call the President a "liar."
* call the President a "hypocrite."

snip.

Section 370 of Jefferson?s Manual states that the rule in Parliament prohibiting Members from "speak{ing} irreverently or seditiously against the King" has been interpreted to prohibit personal references against the President. In addition, Speakers of the House have consistently reiterated, and the House has voted, to support the proposition that it is not in order in debate to engage in personalities toward the President.

http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Educational/Read.aspx?ID=5


Basic Training: Decorum & Civility in the House

The Origins of the Decorum Rules

The Rules of the House give the Speaker broad authority to maintain decorum in the House. Much of this authority is codified in Rule XVII, but is also contained in Jefferson?s Manual, which is incorporated by reference into the Rules of the House. The Rules, when combined with the principles described in Jefferson?s Manual and the precedents of the House form the basis of the decorum rules in the House. The intent is to provide an atmosphere where the Members of the House debate the legislative issues before them, rather than engaging in ?personality? by characterizing the actions of another Member or showing disrespect to the institution.

Dress and Comportment

Members are required to dress appropriately, which has traditionally been considered to include a coat and tie for male Members and appropriate business attire for female Members. Members should not wear overcoats or hats on the floor while the House is in session. No eating, drinking, or smoking is permitted, and the use of personal electronic equipment, including cellular phones and laptop computers, is banned on the floor of the House. The rule does permit the use of ?unobtrusive handheld electronic devices? such as a Blackberry.

A Member must stand while speaking and address the Chair in their remarks (Mister or Madam Speaker; Mister or Madam Chairman). They must also refrain from addressing other Members, the President, the gallery, or the television viewing audience.

Members are required to avoid walking between the Chair and any Member addressing the House and Members should not walk through the well of the House when Members are speaking.

Exhibits

Although Members are permitted to use exhibits such as charts during debate, exhibits which demean the House or a Member of the House, or otherwise violate the rules of decorum are prohibited. Any Member may object to the use of an exhibit, and the Speaker may submit the question of the propriety of the exhibit to the House without a ruling, requiring that the House vote on whether or not the exhibit should be permitted. Similarly, Members are prohibited from wearing badges to convey political messages while speaking.

Unparliamentary Speech

A Member should avoid impugning the motives of another Member, the Senate or the President, using offensive language, or uttering words that are otherwise deemed unparliamentary. These actions are strictly against House Rules and are subject to a demand that the words be taken down. A demand that the Member?s words be taken down results in the clerk reporting the words and the chair ruling on the propriety of the words. (If the demand is made in the Committee of the Whole, the Committee rises and reports them to the House where the Chair rules on their propriety).

The offending Member may obtain unanimous consent to withdraw the inappropriate words or the demand may be withdrawn. Following such a withdrawal, the Member proceeds in order. However, if the Member?s words are ruled out of order, they may be stricken from the Congressional Record by motion or unanimous consent, and the Member will not be allowed to speak again on that day except by motion or unanimous consent.

References to the Senate or Executive Branch

Until the 109th Congress, it was not in order to make certain references to the Senate or individual senators. However, at the beginning of that Congress, the House removed the prohibition on making references to the Senate, leaving only the requirement that debate be confined to the question under debate and avoid ?personality.? The precedents of the House allow a wide latitude in criticism of the President, other executive officials, and the government itself. However, it is not permissible to use language that is personally offensive to the President, such as referring to him as a ?hypocrite? or a ?liar.? Similarly, it is not in order to refer to the President as ?intellectually dishonest? or an action taken by the President as ?cowardly.? References to the Vice President, in spite of his role as President of the Senate, are measured against the standard used for the President rather than prior standards used to govern the Senate.


Categories of Unparliamentary Speech

Defaming or degrading the House
Criticism of the Speaker?s personal conduct
Impugning the motives of another Member
Charging falsehood or deception
Claiming lack of intelligence or knowledge
References to race, creed, or prejudice
Charges related to loyalty or patriotism



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/9/779551/-Its-against-House-rules-to-call-President-a-liar

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:51pm

The Democrats aren't going to do anything about it, because that's the Democratc way

[killertofu333]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:51pm

Not only is that guy an asshole, but an asshole who looks like he's got a mean right back-hand when his little wifey gets outta line.

According to Romantico's last post I think they should adhere to that clause, slap him in the face, call him Susan and string him up by the balls.

Updated On: 9/9/09 at 10:51 PM

[romantico]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 10:59pm

From what I gather, it's up to the Speaker. I think an example needs to be made here. During Bush's 8 years not once do I recall anyone on the floor acting in such poor conduct. This is what these bullies do. They have no class. They turned this into a Town Hall hate fest.Can't he be censured? I am hearing A LOT Of Republicans speaking out against this guy and defending the President (at least publicly). I still think this was planned. I think he did it knowing he would be a hero to the right wing tomorrow.This guy needs to be punished or this will be a regular occurrence and the outbursts of emotion will be non stop. Make an example and take action! AN apology is not gonna cut it.This guy has a track record and TRUST ME
Expect Decorum in the Hall of Congress when the President is speaking. DO NOT ACCEPT THIS BEHAVIOR.

Ask for Censure. Write the Speaker of the House.I already sent an email with the rules he clearly violated.

Speaker of the House: https://www.speaker.gov/contact>https://www.speaker.gov/contact>https://www.speaker.gov/contact


Be sure to tell your Congressman what you think.I tried calling his office but it's been busy for an hour and his website has already crashed.


Current Elected Office Contact Information

Contact Rep. Joe Wilson via Web Form.

Website: joewilson.house.gov



Washington, D.C. Office:

212 Cannon House Office Building,
District of Columbia 20515-4002
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]



Beaufort Office: (more district offices)

903 Port Republic Street
Beaufort, South Carolina 29902
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Beaufort Office:
903 Port Republic Street
Beaufort, South Carolina 29902
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

West Columbia Office:
1700 Sunset Boulevard (US 37, Suite 1
West Columbia, South Carolina 29169
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Updated On: 9/9/09 at 10:59 PM

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:10pm

No, Pelosi and other Dems shouldn't do anything. That would just stir up more sh*t. Let the Repubs deal with this one. McCain already ripped him.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:15pm

I disagree. If you let it go, they will do it again. If action is taken others will think twice before pulling such a disgusting act.Hit them and hit them hard!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:29pm

Pelosi has already said he will not be cesured or whatever it is they do.

I don't remember this EVER happening before, but what do I know? The republican apologists will swear it is the liberals who continue to raise the level of discourse in this country, and if they say it it must be true.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:39pm

"I disagree. If you let it go, they will do it again. If action is taken others will think twice before pulling such a disgusting act.Hit them and hit them hard!"

How Rrepublican of you.

If any progress is to be made one of the parties has to show mature leadership and break the trend of quarreling and tit-for-tat PR spinning and accusations.

[madbrian]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:42pm

With respect to the rules alluded to earlier in the thread, since this was a Presidential address, and Congress wasn't actually in session, do the rules apply???

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:49pm

Now even Mitch McConnell has rapped Wilson's knuckles:

"I think we ought to treat the president with respect and anything other than that is not appropriate," said Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10wilson.html?_r=1&hp Updated On: 9/9/09 at 11:49 PM

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:49pm

Do not censure him. Outbursts during presidential addresses are rude but not unprecedented. His career is over. No Democrat will vote for him because he called the president a liar. And No Republican will vote for him because he apologized for it.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/9/09 at 11:51pm

Well, if nothing else, Wilson just helped raise funds for his opponent.
Donate to Rob Miller

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/10/09 at 12:08am

I agree with Joe. In this day and age of instant transparency, the video clip will be played over and over and his boorish behavior discussed endlessly. Censure would be redundant; he's already BEEN censured, in the court of public opinion.

He's much more useful to the Democratic party in office, where he can be defeated as an embarrassing incumbent. If he were to resign, the South Carolina governor (a joke himself) could appoint someone who would have a greater edge as the incumbent.

Plus, his continued presence belies the Republican meme that YWIW referred to: that Democrats are the ones demeaning the public discourse.

To any Republican or pundit who says that, the Democrats can now say: "You LIE!"

Updated On: 9/10/09 at 12:08 AM

[winston89]

Posted: 9/10/09 at 12:18am

madbrian, The meeting tonight was considered to be a special session of congress. Therefor, the rules that were mentioned earlier in the thread do apply.

[uncageg]

Posted: 9/10/09 at 1:38am

Phyllis, according to all of the discussions I watched after the speech, this has never happened before. So you are right in not remembering it happening.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/10/09 at 6:18am

Um Yawper,How Republican of me? LOL! It was the Republicans who started the lies of Death Panels, The Tea Party Movement, the Birther movement and if anything it is THEY who have shown that compromise between the two is simply not possible. What ever Obama and the Democrats are for they are against no matter what.

Its that weakness the Republicans have relied on. Wake up for Gods sake! Next thing ya know you will be saying let the Republicans say whatever they want,true or not, just to be nice and respectful.After all, they have feelings too! Maybe the White House should send Mr.Wilson flowers for his political passion and speaker Pelosi could take him out for lunch today to show there is no hard feelings.

These weak minded fools who still feel we can work with the Republicans as they encourage disruption and continue to spread false information and just lie are part of the problem. You think just like the Blue Dogs,and we all know how they are looking after (The insurance companies!) Comparing me to a Republican because I believe in standing up to bullies and for our rights is beyond stupid.

GROW A PAIR!

Updated On: 9/10/09 at 06:18 AM

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/10/09 at 7:13am

Yes, how Republican of you, still.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/10/09 at 7:16am

LOL! I call you out on weakness and ask that Democrats be strong and you accuse me of being a Republican.You make claims but can not back them up. Oh, and you accuse me of having a Republican mentality. PRICELESS!!!