clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 100

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/11/16 at 11:08pm

Was that her fault, too?

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 3/11/16 at 11:45pm

Maybe Hillary should get a subscription to the most clear-eyed and uncompromising mainstream journalism I have read about Nancy Reagan's death.

I give you:  Teen Vogue. 

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/nancy-reagan-death-hiv-aids-legacy

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/11/16 at 11:47pm

I hope she does because I really liked that article. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 12:08am

I'm so happy not to pay attention to this shyte. Not when there's a gnat like BK to squash like the gnat it is. DEFEND BROADWAYWORLD. 

[javero]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 6:44am

HorseTears wrote: "For all the talk about Wall Street and paid speeches and campaign finance reform, this is really what the Democratic race for the White House is about: incremental vs. revolutionary change."

 

In my experience, that dichotomy also manifests itself in workplaces where advances in technology have the unintended consequences of displacing scores of workers.  At work, there are two rival camps locked in trench warfare over the path forward.  The allied forces are made up of the old guard that prefers change in measured doses so as to mitigate any collateral damage.  And the axis powers carry the Silicon Valley-crafted banner of disruptive innovation bearing the embossed slogan "innovate or vacate". 

 

My take on it that if lives are in peril like during the first wave, act up, out, and in any other way that will save lives.  But, if there's no imminent danger of death, injury, mass unemployment, famine, or fraud, patience is a virtue.  Some people will come over to our side only after they have either a change in heart, or some skin in the game, in spite of our prodding or a court order.

Updated On: 3/12/16 at 06:44 AM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 7:29am

Remember when Obama likened himself to Reagan and extolled his virtues as a great leader during the 2008 primaries? He caught a lot of flack for it, particularly from progressives, but eventually weathered the criticism.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:06am

 

A friend points out: 

on ;">HillaryClinton.com, in her LGBT platform, she addresses her goals for HIV, including promoting PrEP. PrEP--this is something that's been rather controversial and touches on what to some politicians is an incendiary topic: gay guys having condomless intercourse; but her platform goes there.

On ;">BernieSanders.com there is no mention of HIV.

 

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 2:32pm

 

Garance FrankeRuta, who was a child genius in the early days of Act-Up, puts Hillary's stupid utterrance intio some deep 1980s perspective.

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/12/11210044/clinton-reagan-hiv-aids-lgbt

 

 

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 3:28pm

I STILL think this exhaustion thing is a cop-out. Exhaustion MAY be the reason she SAID the statement, but it's not the reason she THOUGHT it. I like Hillary, I think she'd make a fine President, but this statement completely aligns with her argument that progress comes in small, incremental steps not in grand "revolutions". She was admiring Mrs. Reagan's pragmatism (while, foolishly, completely glossing over her and her husband's larger, far more troubling record on AIDS).

 

PJ, thanks for the intro to Garance Franke-Ruta - she made some incredibly astute observations about this whole thing - and via Twitter, no less. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 5:12pm

At the st. Patrick's day parade in Chicago I saw many people carrying Bernie sanders posters. That's all I have to say.

[javero]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 6:39pm

HorseTears, I don't mean to split hairs over it but at the forum in Cleveland that Hillary hosted earlier today, she seemed "flat" at least on TV.  Perhaps she's struggling with seasonal allergies like me right now.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 8:45pm

Clinton Forgets Sanders Was 'Literally Standing Right Behind Her' on Health Care Reform in the '90s

 

by Melissa Cronan / Gawker

 

Memory is a funny thing, and it’s even funnier when you’re in the midst of a bitter fight for the highest political office in the country.

 

In one recent slip-up, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton showed us the folly of memory, and how it can leads us to do some very careless things. Amy Chozick, a reporter for The New York Times, tweeted out something Clinton said at a campaign event in St. Louis on Saturday, aneffort to disparage her adversary Sen. Bernie Sanders’ history on health care reform.

 

Soon enough, we had our answer—via Mike Casca, a congressional staffer for Sanders.

 

A video of the speech, in which Clinton called for a health care overhaul at Dartmouth College, can be seen here. Bloomberg reporter Jennifer Epstein added a note from Clinton to Sanders in 1993, thanking him for his “commitment to real health care.”

 

 

Memories, like the corners of our minds, are soft and mushy.

Updated On: 3/12/16 at 08:45 PM

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 8:47pm

Re: the article above --

 

God DAMN IT.  It feels like every time I want to get behind this woman.  Every time I want to defend her from (largely) baseless claims about her motives and trustworthiness she does or says something stupid like this.  She's clearly operating under a pre-social media (maybe even pre-internet) paradigm in which she doesn't seem to realize how easy it is for journalists to fact check her.  Or simply doesn't care.  

 

I welcome a vigorous debate on policy and philosophy and political tactics, but attacking Sanders for supposedly being MIA during her early 90s fight for universal healthcare when there is VIDEO of her thanking him for his support and copies of handwritten notes she sent him thanking him for his support?   And don't feed me some bull**** line about how that was a long time ago and no one can possibly be expected to remember everything that happened more than 20 years ago.  Her fight for universal healthcare as first lady was one of the defining moments of her public life - that's why she herself brings it up so often on the campaign trail.  It was one of her most challenging and grueling political experiences. I don't for a second believe she doesn't remember who was there to support her in that fight and who wasn't.  Totally disingenuous and totally inexcusable.

 

What makes me even more mad is that I genuinely think she could be a very effective President, but she just keeps getting in her own ****ing way with pure out and out duplicitous behavior that does not serve her well in the long run.  She should be celebrated for her the bold leadership she displayed as First Lady.  But she couldn't leave well enough alone, she had to ruin her own legacy with this utter rot.  She knows there is a narrative out there on her trustworthiness.  So, why does she keep feeding that beast?  

 

Okay, PJ... defend this. 

 

 

[theaterdrew]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 9:22pm

^Here--read this about how Sanders is always around but no one can really remember him making a particular contribution:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernies-record-220508

Someone more savvy than I may come up with a fictional character who this resembles.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 9:59pm

theaterdrew - so, the point is that because a lot of the legislation Bernie supported didn't make it to the President's desk, it's okay for Hillary to outright lie about his support for healthcare reform when she was first lady?  Fine.  If that's the paradigm we're working with here, I guess there's nothing more to be said.  I just expected more from her. 

 

 

On a more positive note, I think this is a very good apology from her and, I have to imagine, she's the first Presidential candidate to ever mention PrEP.  

Updated On: 3/12/16 at 09:59 PM

[theaterdrew]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:07pm

No, I think the point is that Sanders may have been present but actually contributed nothing of note to the conversation. He comes across in the Politico article as someone who maneuvers himself into the picture and then claims more relevance that anyone else can remember him having.  He did nothing to lead, which is what she is plausibly saying.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:19pm

See, here's the thing, if she wants to attack him on an overall lack of accomplishments in the House and Senate, that's a very valid tactic which that has some real evidence to back it up.  Hell, there are specific pieces of legislation she can attack him on - like the auto bailout and like the legislation that protected gun manufacturers - which I think she did quite effectively.  

 

But, I'm sorry, don't tell me this brilliant, accomplished woman who has probably given more public speeches than all the other candidates combined doesn't know how to communicate with clarity.  She didn't do any of those ^ things, she very specifically said that when she was working on healthcare as first lady, Bernie Sanders was no where to be seen.  She doesn't need you or I or a spin room to clarify and contextualize her comments.  I mean, did you watch this?  

Updated On: 3/12/16 at 10:19 PM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:35pm

Two hours ago, Clinton posted this lengthier apology:

 

"Yesterday, at Nancy Reagan’s funeral, I said something inaccurate when speaking about the Reagans’ record on HIV and AIDS. Since then, I’ve heard from countless people who were devastated by the loss of friends and loved ones, and hurt and disappointed by what I said. As someone who has also lost friends and loved ones to AIDS, I understand why. I made a mistake, plain and simple.

 

"I want to use this opportunity to talk not only about where we’ve come from, but where we must go in the fight against HIV and AIDS.

 

To be clear, the Reagans did not start a national conversation about HIV and AIDS. That distinction belongs to generations of brave lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people, along with straight allies, who started not just a conversation but a movement that continues to this day..."

 

(More in the link below.)

 

https://medium.com/@HillaryClinton/on-the-fight-against-hiv-and-aids-and-on-the-people-who-really-started-the-conversation-7b9fc00e6ed8#.ftumz61sr

Updated On: 3/12/16 at 10:35 PM

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:38pm

Yup.  ^That's the apology I posted two posts up.  I think it was very sincere and, speaking for all the gays in my household, I accept it and I'm ready to move on from that unfortunate statement.  

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 11:23pm

Yeah, that's what I needed to hear from her also. I hope she uses some time in her next speaking event to say the same thing, as well. 

[best12bars]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 8:14am

I took Hillary's remark to be regarding "where he was" in the scheme of things, not "where he was physically" as far as his geography in relation to her at the time.

 

Come on, people. Sound bites taken "literally" out of context can not only do damage, but can make the pearl clutchers look foolish.

 

This time, it's the reaction that has my jaw dropping, not the statement.

 

EDIT:  And for those of you still struggling with metaphysical vs. geographical, "A spokeswoman for Mrs. Clinton, Jennifer Palmieri, had the perfect comeback: “Exactly, he was standing behind her,” Ms. Palmieri said. “She was out in front.”"

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 08:14 AM

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 9:47am

I'm worried that this is getting out of hand.  While I admire the kids showing up at Trump rally's to protest, can't help thinking this is going to get worse.  Sanders should discourage this, feels like we're getting close to a riot.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:02am

 

If Kasich wins in Ohio and Rubio pulls off any kind of an upset in Florida on Tuesday, it will be all over for Trump. He feeds only on being a winner. Once he is a loser, he will lose his enthusiasm.

 

[madbrian]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:47am

It's difficult to see Trump losing Florida.  There is zero enthusiasm for Rubio.  The turnout at his rallies has been embarrassing.  It is more likely that he will slip to third, behind Cruz.  Trump appears to be more vulnerable in Missouri and Illinois.

[javero]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 1:57pm

I agree with PalJoey.  Men like Trump NEED to win always or their self esteem is shattered.

 

Kasich and Cruz are very clever and could slow Trump's roll if Rubio simply dropped out after Tue.  The OH governor knows that if he carries his winner-takes-all home state and Rubio flounders in FL, he stands to inherit the GOP establishment crown without any pretender and a boatload of cash from the donor class.  Most polls have him either slightly ahead or tied with Trump in the OH race.

 

Cruz lags Trump by only 90 delegates presently.  Though he won't pick up any delegates in either FL or OH, he'll gain his fair share in IL, MO, and NC setting the stage for a Mar 22 showdown between Cruz and Trump in AZ and UT.  Salt Lake City will be hosting a debate the day before the UT "caucus" which is right in Cruz's wheelhouse.  With Rubio out of the picture, the GOP race turns on the Mar 22 outcomes in UT and AZ.  Losses in those two states could be a huge blow to Trump's ego.  My family members in heavily populated Maricopa County, AZ claim that Trump's momentum is starting to cool off there.  Kasich and Cruz need to humble Trump in UT and AZ and the superPACs need to turn up heat on him ahead of the Apr 19 NY primary.  As soon as Rubio exits, it will be obvious that Trump is not invincible.

 

http://ktar.com/story/956754/wife-of-arizona-diamondbacks-owner-launches-anti-donald-trump-campaign/

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 01:57 PM