Posted: 6/23/16 at 12:48pm
Hey everyone. I wasn't really following theater at this time so I was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions. Was Wicked expected to win Best Musical, and if so was Avenue Q winning instead a huge shock? Also, did anyone think Caroline, or Change had a shot of winning?
Posted: 6/23/16 at 12:54pm
There's actually a documentary about this season called Show Business: The Road to Broadway. It follows behind the scenes of Wicked, Avenue Q, Caroline or Change and Taboo. Wicked was indeed the front runner but the producers of Avenue Q ran a campaign called "Vote Your Heart" that eventually won them the Tony. I believe such campaigns have now been banned. I highly recommend the documentary.
Posted: 6/23/16 at 12:57pm
The 2003-04 Broadway season was covered in the documentary Show Business: The Road to Broadway. Wicked was expected to win Best Musical and Best Book of a Musical. Tonya Pinkins was expected to win Best Lead Actress in a Musical for Caroline, or Change.
Posted: 6/23/16 at 12:58pm
The producers of Avenue Q also held some campaign where they announced that they were going to take the show on tour, but after winning the Tony it was revealed that they only made an exclusive deal with Las Vegas.
Posted: 6/23/16 at 1:05pm
Did not know that. Thanks for the info, I'll definitely check that out!
Posted: 6/23/16 at 1:26pm
That Vote Your Heart campaign still makes me aggravated to this day. There is actually a great article here on BroadwayWorld that goes over the whole thing including pictures of the theatre from then all done up in red white and blue and political posters: https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/BROADWAY-RECALL-AVENUE-Q-Plays-WICKED-Politics-20110716
And the song listed in the article has since found it's way onto YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=574IxBmVne0
It seems like such a good intentions song until you really listen to it and basically tells you not to vote for the rich one (Wicked), the hot one (Boy from Oz), or your old friend (Caroline or Change) but instead not so subtle tells you that Avenue Q is counting on you... to vote for them and get your other voter friends to do the same.
Updated On: 6/23/16 at 01:26 PM
Posted: 6/23/16 at 1:28pm
I also came across this article from way back in 2004 on playbill that gives a full play by play of this private party: http://www.playbill.com/article/avenue-q-urges-community-to-vote-your-heart-at-invited-party-in-new-york-com-119668
Posted: 6/23/16 at 1:37pm
Posted: 6/23/16 at 2:15pm
plzstp said: "Hey everyone. I wasn't really following theater at this time so I was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions. Was Wicked expected to win Best Musical, and if so was Avenue Q winning instead a huge shock? Also, did anyone think Caroline, or Change had a shot of winning? "
I started a job in NYC back in 2003 and was thus able to afford to buy tickets to watch musicals on Broadway and remember the 2004 season well. I wasn't that involved on here back then but from my personal take in my early 20s, Avenue Q really surprised me. It was so different from other musicals at the time. It was witty, on point, emotional, and hilariously entertaining. I was hoping Tonya Pinkins would win for Best Actress (thinking Tony voters would split their votes between Idina and Kristin). Tonya's performance in that musical, in a way, reminded me a lot of Cynthia's performance in Color Purple.
Anyway, it was a given that Hugh Jackman would win Best Actor and that Wicked would win Best Musical. So many people were surprised Avenue Q won but I was glad it did since I personally thought it was better than Wicked. After all, Avenue Q inspired Stone/Parker to write Book of Mormon with Robert Lopez.
I'd like to watch that documentary as well since I haven't seen it yet. I read an article several months ago on how the Producers were able to indirectly 'woo' Tony voters to vote their way back in 2001. The older I get, the more I accept that Tony voting is heavily political.
Posted: 6/23/16 at 2:23pm
WICKED was so expected to win that, if I recall correctly, it was already pre-loaded into the projection screens onstage and it briefly flashed "Best Musical: Wicked" before it was changed. Can anyone corroborate that?
Posted: 6/23/16 at 2:32pm
I wasn't into Broadway in 2004 but I saw Avenue Q within the last few years and scratching my head when I learned it won over Wicked! PS: I left at intermission! Just my opinion of course I've seen Wicked 6x over the years
Updated On: 6/24/16 at 02:32 PM
Posted: 6/23/16 at 3:43pm
Wicked losing Best Musical to Avenue Q was not nearly as heartbreaking as FOLLIES losing to Two Gentlemen of Verona in 1972.
Posted: 6/23/16 at 4:48pm
It's true that Avenue Q campaigned, but effectiveness of the campaign is pure speculation. It was act quite clever and very much in spirit of the show (as well as other songs and performances for other projects by the Ave Q team). The tour "scandal" was more about sour grapes (or a "smear campaign", if you will). At the time, only the Vegas production was locked in. The show did indeed tour after the closure of the short-lived Vegas run.
Avenue Q winning the top prize was more like a delightful surprise. The only reason it was assumed Wicked would win was because of its size and popularity, which has been known to be a common factor for much of the winners for the previous two decades, at least (though there have been exceptions. But Ave Q had the strongest reviews of the season and turned into a surprise runaway hit. They knew they were up against a behemoth and had fun with it while they had the chance, but I seriously doubt their efforts swayed a majority of votes.
Wicked losing Best Musical to Avenue Q was not nearly as heartbreaking as FOLLIES losing to Two Gentlemen of Verona in 1972.
Personally, I agree with both outcomes.
Posted: 6/23/16 at 7:14pm
From the perspective of someone who attended neither show until a decade later, I can see it being a toss-up that could have gone either way. The whole idea of a vulgar Sesame Street must have seemed subversive and clever at the time, it had a terrific first act with me laughing louder than I had in a theater (movie or otherwise) in a long time, and being a Star Trek fan, I loved the porn obsessed Trekkie Monster, since some of us Trek fans can laugh at ourselves and our little "cult."
And when I saw Willimeijn Verkaik rise into the air belting "Defying Gravity," I went "WOOOOOWWWW," which was a major turning point for me learning to enjoy musical theater (that and having two children take up the performing arts as hobbies). I thought each show was let down by weaker second acts, but ultimately I probably would have given the award to Wicked because while not as dark as its source material, still had a bittersweet, somewhat of a downer, emotionally conflicting ending, while Avenue Q went with puppet sex as one of its big moments (I'm thinking, really? Puppet sex? You went there even though it was soooo predictable and easy to go there - and you still went there? That was a big reason that I was ultimately disappointed in Hand to God, which I also thought had a great, compelling first act) and Q also an all too neat and tidy "happy ending." But looking in the rear view mirror, I can see either one winning.
Although explain to me how "Annie Hall," beat "Star Wars" for best picture, when the latter literally revolutionized the movie industry. Good or bad, it definitely had a major, major impact, which I thought was becoming evident even when I first saw the film back in 1977.
Updated On: 6/23/16 at 07:14 PM
Posted: 6/24/16 at 10:43am
How unexpected was Idina's win? Would her besting Tonya Pinkins be comparable to another actress having beaten Cynthia this season?
Posted: 6/24/16 at 10:58am
Not unexpected at all. Any of the actresses in the 2004 category had a shot with the exception of Stephanie D'Abruzzo. I don't remember Tonya as being an overwhelming favorite.
Posted: 6/24/16 at 11:16am
Donna Murphy was the one scooping up the precursor awards for Wonderful Town. Only after the terrible press she got for repeatedly missing performances did Tonya Pinkins become a strong alternative. After Anika Noni Rose won Featured earlier in the telecast, I actually assumed that Tonya would prevail. Having said that, I was thrilled that Idina won. I thought it was well deserved.
Posted: 6/24/16 at 2:27pm
Part of the "shock" was that this seemed - to me - like it was going to be a repeat of the Millie-Urinetown year. Urinetown - the little subversive anti-musical - and the "popular" Millie. Urinetown had the best book, best score, and best director. But, somehow, lost Best Musical to "Millie" which some attributed to "Millie" being a better show to tour.
Posted: 6/24/16 at 3:13pm
Though I do understand why Wicked didn't win Best Musical, I think we can all agree that Wicked's score is far superior to Avenue Q's.
Posted: 6/24/16 at 3:31pm
^I definitely do not agree. As a whole, Avenue Q is a much more consistent score. While Wicked may have some good songs (Defying Gravity, The Wizard and I, No Good Deed), it also has some real clunkers (Dear Old Shiz, Something Bad, Sentimental Man, Wonderful). Avenue Q may have less "iconic" songs, yet the score as a whole serves the story much better.
Posted: 6/25/16 at 12:02pm
HenryTDobson said: "^I definitely do not agree. As a whole, Avenue Q is a much more consistent score. While Wicked may have some good songs (Defying Gravity, The Wizard and I, No Good Deed), it also has some real clunkers (Dear Old Shiz, Something Bad, Sentimental Man, Wonderful). Avenue Q may have less "iconic" songs, yet the score as a whole serves the story much better. "
I agree with you Henry. I first watched Ave Q back in 2004 and recently watched it again in 2015. I did forget a few songs but having lived life for 11 years some of the songs resonated more to me like "There's a Fine Fine Line". I plan to watch it again with my friends right before we turn 33! 
Posted: 6/25/16 at 12:37pm
funhamilton_rent said: "Though I do understand why Wicked didn't win Best Musical, I think we can all agree that Wicked's score is far superior to Avenue Q's.
"
How can you write a better song that the "Internet is for Porn"?
Posted: 6/25/16 at 12:41pm
I'm still SHOCKED that the much loved Jackie Mason musical from the 2003-4 season didn't sweep all the awards
Posted: 6/27/16 at 9:27am
What AC126748 said is 100% true. The two screens on either side of the stage at the Tonys in '04 read BEST MUSICAL - WICKED. If I recall correctly, they didn't even change it to say AVENUE Q - they just took it off the screens altogether after about 15 seconds or so.
