2018 Olivier Awards- Page 4

[Wick3]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 10:56am

Does the UK have an off-bway equivalent? If so, I think Jamie would have fared better winning awards there first before its transfer to West End (similar to how Dear Evan Hansen back in 2016).

It was announced months if not a year before when Hamilton was going to transfer to West End. Producers could have delayed opening Jamie on West End if winning an Olivier is their number one priority.

 

[devonian.t]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 11:36am

And just what would you CALL that award?    Best New Musical Sort of?

Maybe the Charity Case Award?

Gizmo, there have been plenty of occasions where the little guy topped the juggernaut: Honk beat The Lion King and Return to the Forbidden Planet topped Miss Saigon.  (And of course in the USA Avenue Q beat Wicked).  

For any number of reasons, 'Hamilton' couldn't be beaten this year, and it was pretty obvious that would be the case. 'Jamie' gets fantastic word-of-mouth, so that's its selling point.  It just needs to carry on being the crowd-pleaser it is.

And  by the way, it's not some tiny show from an independent source.  It originated at the Sheffield Crucible, one of our biggest regional producing houses (where Showboat originated prior to the recent West End revival) and has already won 2 UK Theatre Awards.  Sure, it's not 'Hamilton', but it's not direct from the Fringe either.

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 2:17pm

I'm not trolling, please have an intelligent retort instead of you're a 'troll' 'snowflake' 'deranged' 'dumb' or 'lol'. 

I never said it was a fringe production, I said it was from a subsidised regional theatre. 

No one has a problem with stage musicals requiring a new song for Oscar consideration. 

And anyone watching the Olivier's Hamilton performance can see it didn't deserve any awards based on that, compared to the Tony's Hamilton performance I loved. 

 

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 2:23pm

Gizmo6 said: "Having just watched the Olivier Awards clip of Hamilton that was horrendous compared to the Tony performance. It just doesn't doesn't sit with English actors/accents, seemed Camp."

I can't decide if its that or if I am so used to hearing LMM/ Daveed Diggs and others that it just sounds strange with new voices? 

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 3:26pm

I think culturally it's obviously going to sit better with American actors but the Burr there seemed like a panto villain. (Panto a popular entertainment based on Fairly tales in the UK and Ireland at Christmas involving a Dame Character traditionally played by a male actor.) 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 3:48pm

just saw the Hamilton performance, it wasn’t great. the hard Gs and Rs were really throwing me considering it’s supposed to be rap and you don’t hear those sounds a lot in american rap, it all felt very forced and strange which may have to do with British actors doing American accents (though usually British actors do very convincing American accents and it’s usually the reverse that sounds odd)

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 6:17pm

Gizmo6 said: "Also I'm not a 'stan' but it's obvious some haven't a clue about Jamie or how the West End works compared to Broadway. Jamie was a small regional musical that got a short run in the West End and gained traction. This happens a lot in the UK, where we are more concerned with artistry than money, very small regional productions with zero money will make it onto the West End Stage, these aren't out of town tryouts withmillions like Moulin Rouge or Frozen."

Oh yeah, because Broadway doesn't have a history of small productions that started off-Broadway, as regional productions, that are passion projects that made it to Broadway through blood, sweat, tears, and faith and/or are of a smaller in scale winning Tony Awards or becoming successful. Broadway has a lot of commercialism for sure (especially this season), but looking at the musicals that have been up for Oliviers, so does the West End.

Also, since when was Hamilton not a passion project started by a weird idea LMM had and followed through with for years trying to get right? Just because it has become the hit of the decade/generation doesn't take away how it started and not many people would have predicted how big it would have become no matter how big they thought it could become. That show was a real gamble before it even hit The Public Theatre off-Broadway and was coming off of the Vassar workshop. I don't know how this show doesn't qualify as "art" just because it happens to be a blockbuster now.

You need to let go of this false dichotomy that the West End and the projects you care about are "art" and everything from Broadway and things that beat your favorite shows are "not art".
 

Updated On: 4/9/18 at 06:17 PM

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 10:03pm

They sounded so different, but I was more taken aback by the fact that they had 3 times as many ensemble members on stage than the opening number actually calls for. So. Many. Peeps.

[froote]

Posted: 4/9/18 at 10:42pm

Jeez let me weigh in here.

Whilst the Hamilton London cast was for me a mixed bag (Hamilton, Burr, Washington, King, Laurens/Philip, Mulligan/Madison, Peggy/Maria all great, Angelica fine, Eliza and Lafayette/Jefferson bad), judging whether the production is worthy of its Olivier awards based on one televised performance is ridiculous. How many awkward/bad Tony performances of great productions have there been? Even the Hamilton performance at the Tonys did not come close to what it was like to see it live what with camera and sound issues and Lin being (understandably) emotional due to the events of the night before.

Giles Terera is not in any way a pantomime villain. His performance is beautifully nuanced and layered like Odom Jr and Henry before him and he is the highlight of the cast. He does have a slight speech impediment but it doesn't take away from his performance and he is fully deserving of his Olivier award.

This idea you have of 'best new British small musical that has never been seen before' or whatever is all well and good but ETAJ is a huge anomaly in that it's an original British musical that's actually worthy of people's time. We certainly don't get those every year or even most years. There simply wouldn't be enough nominees to fill the category. British musical theatre is in dire straights in comparison to American musical theatre. And whilst it would have been nice for this anomaly to be recognized, at the end of the day it's about what is best. Hamilton, in most people's minds, is easily the better musical.

The Olivers didn't even go overboard with Hamilton, it won 4 less awards than the show did at the Tonys. Other shows like The Ferryman were able to win awards like Best Director against it. So let's stop acting like ETAJ wasn't given a fair chance.

No one kicked up this much of a fuss over a big British show like Billy Elliot winning over a small American musical like Next to Normal. This is despite the fact that winning the Tony for Best Musical can actually help ticket sales a lot whereas winning the Olivier tends to do nothing. And Billy Elliot is no Hamilton. And ETAJ is no Next to Normal.

Updated On: 4/9/18 at 10:42 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 12:30am

Actually, there was a lot of brouhaha over Billy v N2N -- but not because Billy had been mounted in London previously.

But yes, Gizmo's claims are a bit farfetched here.

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 2:39am

I love the claim that Broadway productions are in better shape than West End productions. 

I think the movement of productions across the Atlantic are proof of that, there's been very few coming from Broadway into the West End in recent years. 

 

[binau]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 3:23am

I mean in general, at least in terms of musical theatre, I would have thought it not particularly controversial to claim that Broadway absolutely owns the West End in so many ways, especially in new work and performances/stars. Of course there is a lot to like about the West End, but I know which city I’d rather live in if I wanted good musical theatre.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 3:23am

For Gizmo6, from the Olivier Awards:

''Don't Even Know It'' from ''Everybody's Talking About Jamie''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lzLey7iWZU

Updated On: 4/10/18 at 03:23 AM

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 3:55am

I think for the work alone of the NT London trumps New York for theatre for me. 

Broadway does Disney and Stunt casting well. There was a time when the big musicals transferred to the West End but it's few and far between these days, that said I'm looking forward to the King and I limited engagement. 

Also, If you think of it Webber had four musicals on Broadway last year. Saigon was over, Angels and Farineli are on now, Streetcar transferred, The Ferryman is over, Matilda was over and Charlie. 

Don't get me wrong I like Broadway and the atmosphere of the district. 

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 3:59am

Wayman_Wong said: "For Gizmo6, from the Olivier Awards:

''Don't Even Know It'' from ''Everybody's Talking About Jamie''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lzLey7iWZU"

Thanks Wayman, I hadn't seen it. I will say I was critical of the sound of Hamilton earlier in the thread and there seems to be a similar issue with Jamie. Perhaps a technical issue?

If anyone has any interest in the show there's a concept album and now an original recording on Apple Music.

[binau]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 4:12am

Gizmo6 said: "I think for the work alone of the NT London trumps New York for theatre for me.

Broadway does Disney and Stunt casting well. There was a time when the big musicals transferred to the West End but it's few and far between these days, that said I'm looking forward to the King and I limited engagement.

Also, If you think of it Webberhad four musicals on Broadway last year. Saigon was over, Angels and Farineli areon now, Streetcar transferred, The Ferryman is over, Matilda was over and Charlie.

Don't get me wrong I like Broadway and the atmosphere of the district."

I mean "Disney and Stunt Casting" is not what I think about when I think about Broadway. When I think about Broadway I think about high quality, American musicals on the artistic end of the spectrum. I mean there are just so many to choose from but if I think in recent times: Next to Normal, The Band's Visit, The Visit, Grey Gardens, War Paint, The Scottsboro Boys, Dear Evan Hansen, Fun Home, Hamilton, Bridges of Madisson County, The Book of Momon, The Color Purple. I just don't think the West End can compete in new musicals at all. Of course, occasionally something remarkable (in terms of a musical) does come out of the West End, such as Matilda (and I loved Jamie). But I just don't see where the new work is in the West End. And most of the upcoming productions I am excited about in the West End are American shows (Caroline, or Change; Fun Home; King and I; Company).  

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 4:33am

Wasn’t the recent Color Purple the Donmar production?

I agree Broadway churns out the musicals and the West End is slower, I think that’s the point I was trying to make about the Oliviers and giving new work a chance.

I’m looking forward to seeing Fun Home in the new production (non-replica) by the Young Vic. Though having seen it in NYC it’ll be hard to top.

Also looking forward to seeing the Chichester Festivals Caroline or Change.

I am really looking forward to MFL and a visit later in the year after seeing King and I.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 7:02am

Saw Hamilton on Bway so did not see it in London- but a did see Everyone's Talking About Jamie- and loved it. Wish that would have won Best Musical- it was so entertaining and a joy from start to finish. Sort of like Kinky Boots 2- very topical and uplifting. 

[Loopin’theloop]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 7:32am

GIZMO your passion is wonderful but your points are ill founded.

Gizmo, the reason that THE uK is taking it slow is nothing to do with art. It’s not because Britain got together and decided that they would do things slowly so as to ensure artistic ingetrity and quality. The reason is simply that musical theatre is a part of the American culture in a way that it isn’t in the UK. Musical theatre as we know it, is an American invention. It’s woven into the fabric of New York in a different way to London.

London do plays better than New York. Now NY has had done wonderful plays and will in the future but the play culture is woven into London’s fabric in the same that musical theatre is in New York.

The reason that things are happening ‘slower’ in the UK is nobody is producing new stuff. And nobody is supporting new work, on a commercial level. Sure there are numerous small companies that are championing new musicals but they are small and produced work generally consists of fringe presentations of selections from various new shows, in evenings that become more about the brand such as ‘New Musicals UK’ or ‘The Pitch Perfect Project’ (neither of those being actual names) than the work itself because sadly the work rarely gets produced beyond that. There simply is less interest commercially in financing a new musical. They cost a lot of money. A lot of money. America is doing better because more people with large chequebooks are passionate about musicals.

You mention the RNT and the Donmar? They are both publicly funded, with a huge subscriber base. You can afford to be doing new work in a place like that. But neither of those places are championing new musical theatre writing. Both are producing revivals. The last fully new musical at the RNT was ‘The Ligjt Primcess’ and even with their name, reputation and audience base they still felt that they needed a recordingartist to write the score as apposed to a musical theatre writer. The last and I think only new musical work at the Donmar was the Kids Company verbatim thing. And that piece in particular was a vanity project that would never, ever in a thousand years have gone on to have a further life in a commercial theatre but yet they spent their public funding doing it.

There are lots of younger companies setting up with their sights set on producing musicals and some doing well on tour throughout the UK. What are they touring? Avenue Q, The Wedding Singer, Footloose, Crazy for You. And why? Well, because the rights were available for a start and they need a recognised title to sell tickets.

Who in the UK is putting their neck out and pushing for new work? The Jamie musical is a wonderful, wonderful example. And it’s a delightful change that a show like this has made it. It should indeed be celebrated BUT this show has a score written by a recording artist, with no former experience of the art form and not a musical theatre writer. But the UK are somehow doing better than the states, when it comes to ‘art’ and nurturing new writers and ideas?
 

Updated On: 4/10/18 at 07:32 AM

[Loopin’theloop]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 7:39am

Sheesh! Forgive the TYPOS I can’t edit on phone .

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 8:56am

“Musical Theatre is an American Invention” gave me a good giggle.

Firstly some things for you to ponder. The 18th Century Ballad Operas, the structure came from Victorian era Gilbert and Sullivan. Then the Edwardian comedies.

Colonial America didn’t have theatre till nearly 1800’s when actors were sent from Europe can’t remember the name.

The French guy Herve was writing in the early 1800’s, then George Edwards at the Gaiety, if I remember right.

Then America had a golden age but this dissolved in revues until the blockbusters started to come out of Uk/Europe in the 70’s/80’s which transformed musical theatre.

[Loopin’theloop]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 9:14am

I said ‘Musical theatre as we know it’ which is true. The concept of book musicals and inrergrated scores was developed in America, of course taking the history the predated it as inspiration. Any theatre historian will attest to that.

There was nothing in my response that was rude or undermining. I was taking your points and forming a discussion. It’s unfortunate that your response is to be rude, more for you than I as of you have to belittle, snide and undermine to put your point across in stands to reason that you don’t have that much faith in your point to begin with. It’s also interesting that you have no response to the other points I brought up.

If you don’t want a discussion or a conversation then why post on a discussion board? If you merely want to have your opinion heard and hear nobody else’s, then buy a soap box and stand in the street.

You seemed to be wanting to talk through British vs American theatre but clearly that is not the case.

Manners are going to get you a lot further and I don’t think there is anyone in this thread, many of whom also tried to engage you in discussion, will disagree with me.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 9:19am

Gizmo, you’re fundamentally misinformed if you think musical theatre isn’t an American invention. Ballad operas, operettas, and the like are by definition not musical theatre. They are, better put, theatre with music. They’re cultural traditions from which Americans borrowed (in confluence with early 20th century trends such as the popularity of Tin Pan Alley) that paved the way to the first book musical: Show Boat. Thereafter, musical theatre has become a deeply and distinctly American thing.

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 9:31am

Loopin’theloop said: "I said ‘Musical theatre as we know it’ which is true. The concept of book musicals and inrergrated scores was developed in America, of course taking the history the predated it as inspiration. Any theatre historian will attest to that.

There was nothing in my response that was rude or undermining. I was taking your points and forming a discussion. It’s unfortunate that your response is to be rude, more for you than I as of you have to belittle, snide and undermine to put your point across in stands to reason that you don’t have that much faith in your point to begin with. It’s also interesting that you have no response to the other points I brought up.

If you don’t want a discussion or a conversation then why post on a discussion board? If you merely want to have your opinion heard and hear nobody else’s, then buy a soap box and stand in the street.

You seemed to be wanting to talk through British vs American theatre but clearly that is not the case.

Manners are going to get you a lot further and I don’t think there is anyone in this thread, many of whom also tried to engage you in discussion, will disagree with me."

I wasn’t rude at all you said Americans invented musical theatre, meaning to create something from nothing. You didn’t. America has no theatrical tradition it’s all imported from Europe. That’s no an insult it’s just fact.

I’m sorry I can’t get to every point I am on my phone on lunch. 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 4/10/18 at 1:03pm

The Oliviers are going to rename the Directing prize in Peter Hall's honor - in the wake of leaving him out of its Memoriam segment.

http://deadline.com/2018/04/olivier-awards-peter-hall-in-memoriam-1202361601/

Updated On: 4/10/18 at 01:03 PM