A Casino in Times Square?- Page 5

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 8:00am

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Aside from the common sense (and lack thereof) being shared in this thread - I’m mad that the renderings effectively cover up the Minskoff lobby windows, for…..another soulless screen.

I know there’s more important reasons to be against this, as those have already been shared. It’s just such a joke in every way. It’s painfully obvious that the only people being considered in this proposal are developers- not the real people living and visiting New York."


So where’s your petition against all the other screens currently in Times Square?

How is it a joke? How would this harm NYers and those visiting? If you did some reading, it’s actually “painfully obvious” that it would be nuts to reject these proposed benefits:

• $250 million in community benefits: Caesars Palace Times Square is committing $250 million directly to community projects. That will include a transformative, $81 million public safety plan for the surrounding neighborhood designed by former NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton. It also includes $15 million for a new civil rights museum spearheaded by the Civil Rights Foundation, the establishment of the Manhattan Plaza Capital Trust and $5 million to support the development of the Callen-Lorde Center for Excellence in Sexual Health.
• $225 million for Broadway: More than 835,000 additional Broadway tickets are projected to be sold annually as a result of the project’s boost to demand overall, generating $124 million in annual revenue. Additionally, Broadway workers stand to gain tremendously from direct community investment, including a $32 million investment in child care, student and medical debt assistance, and rent support for Broadway workers as well as $20 million to purchase Broadway tickets for underserved families.
• Unprecedented revenue for City and State: As the fastest-to-market new gaming proposal, Caesars Palace Times Square is projected to generate transformative economic benefits for New York City and State, with over $7 billion in direct tax and fee revenue and $26.7 billion in local economic impact in its first ten years alone.
• Thousands of direct, good-paying jobs: The project will directly support more than 3,000 construction jobs and 3,800 permanent CPTS jobs, the vast majority of which are unionized and will be filled by New Yorkers. These permanent hospitality jobs have an average compensation of approximately $120,000 a year when factoring in tips and Caesars’ comprehensive benefits.
• An economic halo effect: CPTS creates long-term demand far beyond its own supply: guests are expected to generate excess demand for more than 13 million meals annually at local restaurants, over 2,400 hotel rooms each night in surrounding hotels, and more than $880 million in incremental annual retail purchases. Through the Caesars Rewards program, over 165 local businesses have already partnered to accept rewards points to ensure the project uplifts the existing Times Square economy rather than competing with it.
• Ownership Diversity: By utilizing Cadre’s unparalleled platform for reaching various individual investors at all income levels, in partnership with Rev. Al Sharpton, CPTS will empower local New York households with opportunities starting as low as $500. Historically, real estate investment has been out of reach for low-income New Yorkers, who have been underserved from opportunities of this scale.
• By New Yorkers, for New Yorkers: CPTS is a project built by New Yorkers with deep roots in the city—led by SL Green, Manhattan’s largest office landlord; Caesars Entertainment, which operates a successful sportsbook delivering significant tax revenues in New York; Roc Nation, the global entertainment powerhouse founded in New York by Jay-Z; and Live Nation, the world’s leading live entertainment company with a longstanding presence in Times Square through existing venues. The project is more than just a speculative venture by outsiders—it’s a seamless addition to our state’s economic and cultural engine that uplifts local businesses, honors neighborhood character, promotes diversity, and strengthens the future of Times Square for all New Yorkers.
• Commitment to responsible gaming: Caesars will bring its pioneering and well-recognized programs to mitigate problem gambling to CPTS. The programs are guided by the philosophy of ensuring that every guest enjoys their gaming experience for the right reason; to simply have fun. Caesars continues to set the standard for Responsible Gaming in the industry. CPTS goes a step further by committing to having no gaming activity on the ground floor, nor will any tables or gaming devices be visible from the street.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 8:15am

There’s nothing wrong with more work opportunities for actors between gigs. 
But like everything else with this casino, this benefit seems massively overstated. How many people will really be employed in the plum gaming floor roles? A couple hundred at most? And they’re not going to all be AEA members.  

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 9:25am

Broadway61004 said: "
You do understand that virtually every store and restaurant does this already, right? You think McDonald's gives people 40 hours a week and pays them benefits? Not saying it's right, but acting like the casino would be the only one doing this is absurd."

The difference is that McDonalds isn't attempting to claim they'll have a jobs program for Artists just so the city will allow them to break ground and become an another nasty eye sore in the city that is built specifically to take people's money. 

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 9:26am

Anyone who thinks this is going to be a net benefit to the arts community or to New York a couple down years the line has the critical thinking skills of a Milky Way wrapper. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 9:50am

Scarywarhol said: "Anyone who thinks this is going to be a net benefit to the arts community or to New York a couple down years the line has the critical thinking skills of a Milky Way wrapper."

Great, we’ll reassess in a couple of years then. 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 9:56am

BorisTomashevsky said: "

• $225 million for Broadway:More than 835,000 additional Broadway tickets are projected to be sold annually as a result of the project’s boost to demand overall, generating $124 million in annual revenue."

That's a really bold claim, as it presumes to attract people who otherwise would not come have come to NYC and/or who would not see a show. Not even Vegas could sustain its "Broadway West" experiment from the early 2000s. I'd say the casino will likely benefit more from theatergoers than Broadway will benefit from the casino. 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 10:01am

Copying and pasting the casino’s own pitch is hardly an argument, especially when their extremely rosy estimated economic benefits are entirely unexplained. 
 

How is it feasible that a single casino will increase Broadway ticket sales by approximately 6%? How is it feasible that it’ll result in nearly $1bn in additional retail sales around? Their figures all seem to be predicated on the idea that this will attract legions of visitors who would not otherwise come here, but they don’t explain how they arrive at that conclusion. I remain exceptionally skeptical that there is a sizable population of people who would love to come to NYC but don’t because there isn’t a convenient place to gamble. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 10:10am

Kad said: "Copying and pasting the casino’s own pitch is hardly an argument, especially when their extremely rosy estimated economic benefits are entirely unexplained.


How is it feasible that a single casino will increase Broadway ticket sales by approximately 6%? How is it feasible that it’ll result in nearly $1bn in additional retail sales around? Their figures all seem to be predicated on the idea that this will attract legions of visitors who would not otherwise come here, but they don’t explain how they arrive at that conclusion. I remain exceptionally skeptical that there is a sizable population of people who would love to come to NYC but don’t because there isn’t a convenient place to gamble."

Companies like this do years of market research to figure out their numbers. I don’t know how they arrived at that conclusion either, but as a reasonably successful parent company I’d imagine they haven’t got to where they are by just throwing darts at a board and using those numbers for proposals. I’m sure their PR department can provide background on how they arrive at those numbers if anyone really wants to know. 

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 10:20am

BorisTomashevsky said: "Kad said: "Copying and pasting the casino’s own pitch is hardly an argument, especially when their extremely rosy estimated economic benefits are entirely unexplained.


How is it feasible that a single casino will increase Broadway ticket sales by approximately 6%? How is it feasible that it’ll result in nearly $1bn in additional retail sales around? Their figures all seem to be predicated on the idea that this will attract legions of visitors who would not otherwise come here, but they don’t explain how they arrive at that conclusion. I remain exceptionally skeptical that there is a sizable population of people who would love to come to NYC but don’t because there isn’t a convenient place to gamble."

Companies like this do years of market research to figure out their numbers. I don’t know how they arrived at that conclusion either, but as a reasonably successful parent company I’d imagine they haven’t got to where they are by just throwing darts at a board and using thosenumbers for proposals. I’m sure their PR department can provide background on how they arrive at those numbers if anyone really wants to know.

"

But when you're attempting to convince people and Boards shouldn't you be able to provide that research? I know going to school Math was all about SHOW YOUR WORK, but we've seemingly forgotten that part. Businesses make horrible decisions based on market research all the time. Do we need to visit the streaming boondoggle that almost all networks have fallen into because they neglected the one most obvious fault in the model? That there's a very low ceiling and you keep spending huge amounts on media for it? Companies are not smart. CEOs are not genius savant. They are gamblers themselves who hit big with one thing and attempt to replicate the success to horrible results even when instincts should have told them to not do that. 

And here's the thing about their numbers they've posted. If they're wrong? Why do they care? None of what they're claiming has to do with them. As long as money continues to come into the casino they don't care if the money actually makes it to the surrounding businesses as they assert in their proposal. Those numbers only exist to get them to say Yes, it's not a contract. There's not an obligation. They dont have to stand in front of a board in 5 years when the community benefits don't materialize. 

Updated On: 7/24/25 at 10:20 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 11:28am

In general, I think people should be able to do what they want with their property, and I don't see any reason why this would be an exception to that principle. I'm not so naive to think that such an argument would convince those who are opposed to the project, but I find it disturbing that it doesn't even seem to be part of the argument. 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 11:40am

There is no place in the whole country a project like this wouldn’t be subject to approval from local authorities.

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 11:50am

Kad said: "There isno place in the whole country a project like this wouldn’t be subject to approval from local authorities."

I think kdogg is meaning the voice of the general public on this board, saying “We don’t want you here!” and “Go away!” as if the Minskoff tower belongs to the general public. Did anyone care when Junior’s opened a new place a few blocks north on Broadway?

[Huss417]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 11:57am

BorisTomashevsky said: "Kad said: "There isno place in the whole country a project like this wouldn’t be subject to approval from local authorities."

I think kdogg is meaning the voice of the general public on this board, saying “We don’t want you here!” and “Go away!” as if the Minskoff tower belongs to the general public.Did anyone care when Junior’s opened a new place a few blocks north on Broadway?"

Are you comparing a new casino to a new Junior's?

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 12:10pm

Huss417 said: "BorisTomashevsky said: "Kad said: "There isno place in the whole country a project like this wouldn’t be subject to approval from local authorities."

I think kdogg is meaning the voice of the general public on this board, saying “We don’t want you here!” and “Go away!” as if the Minskoff tower belongs to the general public.Did anyone care when Junior’s opened a new place a few blocks north on Broadway?"

Are you comparing a new casino to a new Junior's?"

Initially I was asking if anyone had a problem with a company doing what they want with their land. But now that you’ve really made me think about it, sure, why not? The sugar and processed ingredients Junior’s serves people arguably does more harm to society than a casino - which provides millions of dollars in social funding - does.

How does Junior’s contribute to society in a positive way?

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 12:10pm

kdogg36 said: "In general, I think people should be able to do what they want with their property, and I don't see any reason why this would be an exception to that principle. I'm not so naive to think that such an argument would convince those who are opposed to the project, but I find it disturbing that it doesn't even seem to be part of the argument."

Well because it is our city and we do all pay very high taxes to live here so a project that is going to radically change the appearance of the area and potentially the culture of course there's going to be opposition. Every new construction project is open to public comment and opposition. There's a new food court coming across the street from my work in Union Square and despite it just replacing an old food court and thus no new outward construction, it is open to public comments. It shouldn't be a shock that a Casino is facing far more opposition than a restaurant would. 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 5:35pm

Just to clarify, I understand how things work, and I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be significant public input. My personal take is that, ultimately, people should be able to do what they want with their property unless there is some really compelling reason to stop them. As I said, I'm just disappointed that this principle - which I would have thought to be a rather classical American idea - never seems to even be part of the debate. Even the developers themselves apparently feel the need to pretend like this casino will be God's gift to Times Square rather than just another business trying to rake in tourist dollars, as if there's anything wrong with the latter concept.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 5:48pm

kdogg36 said: "Just to clarify, I understand how things work, and I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be significant public input. My personal take is that, ultimately, people should be able to do what they want with their property unless there is some really compelling reason to stop them. As I said,I'm just disappointed that this principle - which I would have thought to be a rather classical American idea -never seems to even be part of the debate.Even the developers themselves apparently feel theneed to pretend like this casino will be God's gift to Times Square rather than just another business trying to rake in tourist dollars, as if there's anything wrong with the latter concept."

If somebody struck oil on the island of Manhattan, should we just allow them to start drilling because its their land?

Like, this isn't a private residence. You want the community to use this casino as both patrons and employees. Why should the community not be able to express how they feel about that in a meaningful way?

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 5:56pm

Looking at this map, it just looks like another business in Times Square that residents will avoid. It's not great but another business would have simply moved in there anyways. SL Green. Caesars, and ROC Nation have a lot of powerful people and unlimited resources. They proposed this years ago and it seems like it will be a long slog. Meh.

[KrupYou]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 7:08pm

Help me understand why people might be against this multi billion dollar investment in the city? 

[MezzA101]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 7:32pm

KrupYou said: "Help me understand why people might be against this multi billion dollar investment in the city?"

Broadway’s right — Jay-Z’s Times Square casino bid must fail

https://nypost.com/2025/06/28/entertainment/broadways-right-jay-zs-times-square-casino-bid-must-fail?

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 8:34pm

KrupYou said: "Help me understand why people might be against this multi billion dollar investment in the city?"

Can you tell me what the actual investment is? Because it feels like its just a casino which just makes the casino owners richer. 

[KrupYou]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 8:40pm

Quick google search:   

Community Benefits:

• $250 million Community Investment Package:

  This includes a range of initiatives such as:
  • $81 million Public Safety Plan: Developed with input from former NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton, it aims to improve safety in the surrounding neighborhood. 
  • $15 million Civil Rights Museum: A new museum spearheaded by the Civil Rights Foundation. 
  • $5 million to Callen-Lorde: For the development of a Center for Excellence in Sexual Health. 
  • $22.5 million over 15 years to Manhattan Plaza: An affordable housing complex primarily housing Broadway workers. 
  • $98 million for Broadway workers: Focused on childcare, healthcare, student debt relief, and job support. 
  • $20 million for Broadway tickets: For underserved families. 
  • Other initiatives: Include support for after-school programs, childcare, senior support, youth educational arts programs, and public space improvements. 

• Economic Impact:

  The project is projected to generate significant revenue for the city and state, with estimates including:
  • $7 billion in tax revenue in the first decade . 
  • $26 billion in spillover revenue for nearby businesses . 
  • Over $800 million annually in retail spending . 
  • 636,000+ new annual overnight visits to local hotels . 
  • $65 million in new annual Broadway ticket sales . 

Support and Opposition:

• Support:

  The project has garnered support from various groups, including:
  • Actors' Equity Association: The union representing Broadway actors and stage managers. 
  • AFM Local 802: The union representing Broadway musicians. 
  • Local businesses: Including restaurants, hotels, and other establishments in and around Times Square. 
  • Community organizations: Including the Coalition for a Better Times Square. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 8:48pm

^ It all sounds fantastic to me. However in 2025 it’s hip to say “No!” to things before the other person’s even finished speaking, even if there’s a lot in it for you. 

“We want to bring economic devel-“
”GO FUC YOURSELVES!”

 
Some people just can’t help but get in their own way. 

Updated On: 7/24/25 at 08:48 PM

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 8:55pm

L-O-L if anyone believes that a Civil Rights Museum will be built or is even a plausible reality. The current administration has taken over the Kennedy Center “because woke bad” and they are actively working to pass the “Restoring Truth and Sanity to American History Act” to ban ‘activists from rewriting our pasts’ and to ‘celebrate what makes America great’ by way of whitewashing history and censoring the Smithsonian institutes from producing historical facts. 

Get ****ing real. That civil rights museum is not happening and was never going to. You people are pathetic in the way you are fighting for a damn gambling center as if this city or anyone inhabiting it requires one to survive. The city will be just fine without it, as will your debts. 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/24/25 at 9:29pm

KrupYou said: "Help me understand why people might be against this multi billion dollar investment in the city?"

There are literally five pages of discussion in this thread. Maybe if you actually engaged with conversations on this board instead of leaving comments and meandering away, you would realize this.