AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO BROADWAY THEATRES FROM MATT_G...- Page 4

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 6:37pm

etoile, what you say is quite valid. I didn't say I changed careers JUST to see theater though. If you read my post more carefully, you'll see that I changed careers in order to live better, and part of that for me is to see theater - and it's very rare that I pay full price - I go through the free discount services. I happened to see a beautiful piece of theater last night for which I got discount tix and it was off-Broadway. All I'm saying is that you choose your priorities. If your priority is to see Broadway theater and lots of it, then you need to find a way to procure the income to make that happen. Producers have the rules they do for reasons which are valid to them. Until we're on that side of the box office, I don't think we can really tell them how to run their business. It's complex and nowhere near as cut and dried as a lot of people on these boards seem to think.

Matt, I see no reason why you can't write a letter to the producers/general managers of the shows in question and tell them how you feel. Maybe they'll reconsider. You never know. At least it's a constructive step.

Updated On: 1/5/05 at 06:37 PM

[LyTeMyCanDyI]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 6:45pm

I'm really surprised that 5 minutes before curtain the theater wouldn't sell them. I can understand way before the show starts, if they have a students only thing, but do they honestly expect a gaggle of school kids to come running up the the theater? come on...I question the student only thing too, eventhough at the moment I'm glad it takes many people out of the running...more tickets for me, but still...I think part of the reasoning behind it is to encourage younger people to go to the theater. i could be wrong, but thats my opinion. i do thing its not cool at all to turn away someone like that. its beyond not. its quite annoying, and it makes me angry that they can turn it away. yes, broadway is a luxury, but if the offer has not been taken up in time, and its either take some1 not qualified or not sell it, take the not qualified.

[Craig]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 7:06pm

Lyte-

We could talk around in circles about this. If people knew that they could grab tickets last minute, they would not book in advance. It's been proven over and over. So yes - they COULD expect a gaggle of school kids to come up running up last minute.

Matt-

You've since clarified your point since your original point with a VERY important detail. Your original post sounded as if you expected shows to just open up tickets (as many as were needed) last minute to those that wanted them.

In your last post, you said a single row to be "on call" so to speak. Very different and I agree that would make a lot of sense. I think you realize the dangers of making it a free-for-all if ALL the seats were available via that method...

[CatieElphie1]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 7:24pm

Matt,
I gotta agree with you. I live in Illinois (the theatre capitol of the world, lemme tell ya) and I make a trip up to New York maybe once every 3 years. It really sucks because my parents (I'm only a junior in high school) aren't willing to spot me $120 bucks for a show I want to see. And I am way too busy with school to work, so I have to either not see a show or pray it comes to Chicago, but it's not the same thing. I totally feel you on this one, and I wish that they would change the policies.

[Plum]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 8:14pm

Even a student can be frustrated by this stuff- try figuring out how to get your whole family to a musical, for instance, without breaking the bank. But even shows that sell pretty well for a good period of time don't recoup these days. You have to look at the situation from the point of view of the person behind the ticket window as well as the one in front of it.

And didn't Student Rush become widespread only after Rent? Or have I finally lost what little was left of my mind?

[Matt_G]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 8:54pm

So tell me how a show reserving ONE row of seats that they offer at a rush price is going to make a show not recoup, Plum.

[Ellie3]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 8:57pm

Are the box office staff really that small that they couldn't turn a blind eye to a theatre-lover in need?
'You have ID? Very good, sir, this way...'

Edit - OK, not small, but have they no 'what's the harm?' spirit? Updated On: 1/5/05 at 08:57 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:10pm

They'll take every dollar they can get, I guess. Not a particularly happy situation for anyone involved.

[Feathah]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:18pm

It's show *business* so dollars always come first. Try TKTS, Theatermania's Gold Club, standing room and the general rush shows.

Anyone know how to get a fake student id?

[Plum]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:19pm

I'm sure there's tons of half-assed colleges you can register with for a nominal fee.

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:52pm

Matt,

1. Producers set the ticket prices and their shows' ticket policies, not the theatre owners, and certainly not the box office.

2. Box office personnel run the real risk of losing their job by making independent decisions to sell tickets at a discounted price. Selling somenone a "Student" ticket when the ticket buyer is not entitled is another example. Either of those are considered fraud.

Having a limited number of general admission seats is a good idea, but fraught with problems. Changing the paradigm isn't easy.

There are plenty of legitimate ways of securing discounted theatre tickets today. The key is flexibility. One has to be flexible; willing to choose from what's available, sometimes on less than 24 hours notice, and with no personal seat selection.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:56pm

A lot of you keep saying that having general rush seats or standing room causes problems. Does it cause problems for shows like

700 SUNDAYS
AVENUE Q
BROOKLYN
CHICAGO
GEM OF THE OCEAN
HAIRSPRAY
LA CAGE AUX FOLLES
MAMMA MIA
PACIFIC OVERTURES
RENT
THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA
THE PRODUCERS
TWELVE ANGRY MEN
WHOOPI
WICKED

Seiously? Where's the harm?

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:57pm

Brooklyn sucks. I bet it's all SRO's fault!

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 9:57pm

ugh, this thread is back from the dead...

Is anyone arguing that shows shouldn't offer cheap tickets? If you are, put down the crack and step away from the Bong....

[Plum]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 10:47pm

Who argued that?

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 10:54pm

just the fact that this thread is still going on...and the whole "luxury" arguement....

Matt made a simple (yet complex) point that got beat down

[uncageg]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 11:03pm

Here in Denver, with comps or lower priced seating, the production eats the cost. But I see no reason why at 10 minutes before curtain they can't release these seats to someone who wants to see the show. Even at discount. Sell the tickets at a discounted price and you don't have to eat as much of the cost. I breezed through the posts here and read something about the possiblity of a gaggle of students showing up at the last minute to see a show. Sorry, but I don't see that happening a lot in NY or Denver. I say, sell the tickets. Yes there may be rules. Change them!

[ckeaton]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 11:28pm

I know when a show has been turned over to the publishers, often the royalty cost of the performance is determined by attendance. I doubt a show could actually lose money via royalties in this situation, but it's a thought.

When I worked in the box office I would often look the other way, especially when I'd get really old beat up IDs that were obviously fake. One woman was a jerk once, and she showed me a Syracuse University ID from the 80s. (In Rochester) She claimed that it was a new one, so I showed her my 2 year old SU ID, and the changes were blatantly obvious. But I still sold her a discounted ticket. Just not our ridiculously cheap Student Rush price.

[Kris2]

Posted: 1/5/05 at 11:45pm

Ouch. Tough thread, lot of good points. If only producers could find a way to lower overall running costs then they could offer a couple of rows at a discounted price (yes, Rent got the rush/lotto trend started I believe). That's the only real solution I think.

Personally, if the cost is cheap and I liked the show a heck of a lot, I'd see it again. I'd rather see a show 4 times for $25-$35 than take the risk and pay $100 for 1 ticket. Plus, it's tons easier for me to scrounge up $25-$35 than $100. I do pay full price if I think it's gonna be worth it. It's just hard sometimes. I don't think that entitles me to a cheap ticket or anything, but I am very grateful to shows that offer discounts, lotto or rush.

[CurtainUp2]

Posted: 1/6/05 at 12:18am

The average price for a gallon of milk in NYC is $3.65.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/6/05 at 12:49am

Ya know I am no big fan of capitalism, but Matt & The Entitlement Crew, SOMEBODY is subsidizing those discounted seats, you know.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 1/6/05 at 1:15am

Rush tickets (student or otherwise) have been around for decades (I remember using them frequently as a student in the 80s).

"Rent" was one of the first to institute a lottery -- which came about because the producers began to be concerned about the dozens of kids sleeping out every night on 41st Street to be first in line for the cheap rush seats that went on sale when the box office opened at 10am (and let's be very clear that lawyers and liability issues were the primary motivations behind starting the lottery -- not some altruistic notions of providing cheap seats to the youth of America ...... they frankly could have given a damn that kids were spending the night on the sidewalk, but they realized it was cheaper to start a lottery than continuing to pay for a security guard to make sure nobody got mugged and sue the theatre and the producers).

There's an old saying on Broadway -- "You can't make a living doing theatre, but you CAN make a killing." 90% of Broadway shows never recoup their initial investment, but of that 10% that do are shows that earn profits in the millions. Broadway producers and theatre owners are in a tough business. On some level many of them (not all) invest in Broadway because they believe in theatre and the arts and for whatever reason enjoy being part of that process, whether they make money or not (if you JUST wanted to make money, there are THOUSANDS of far better and more promising investments out there than putting money into a Broadway show).

But even with all of that nobility of purpose, these are very wealthy folks who want to see everything possible done to maximize their chance at turning a profit -- that's how you end up with millions of dollars in the first place and old habits die hard. The notion of giving away even a row of seats at $20 a pop for some higher purpose of providing the "less fortunate" with an opportunity to see theatre and encouraging future generations to take up the theatregoing habit is very difficult for many of them to comprehend.

There's a reason that when you get to your seat in most Broadway theatres today, that, if you are taller than 5'0" you feel cramped and have a problem finding any leg room -- the theatre owners renovated every Broadway theatre several years ago to cram in every possible seat they could into that confined location in order to maximize profits (there are 80 year old theatres today that have 100+ more seats, pressed into the exact same space, than they did a generation ago).

I won't get into the whole per-seat financial analysis that has been done for every single theatre on Broadway, but understand that, after all that effort to cram in all those extra seats, it is anathema to producers to "give away" a row -- 20+ seats (160+ per week) -- for $20 when they could at least get $50 or $60 for each of those seats even selling them through TKTS or discounts.

I KNOW "why not allow those seats to be sold for $20, 5 minutes before curtain, if no one has shown up to buy them at a higher price?" Good point, but these are multi-million dollar corporations we're talking about, not "mom-and-pop stores" that can think (or care) about the individual ticket buyer. As anyone who has ever worked in one knows, large corporations (which is what each Broadway show is or is part of) set broad rules and guidelines to govern every business decision. From a pure business perspective, the lawyers and accountants wouldn't understand the purpose of implementing such a policy, and bottom line, selling a few extra tickets at $20 would be considered "de minimus" revenue not worth going after -- of course, as Matt and the rest of us know, the amazing goodwill such a policy would be enormous.

By the way --

I can remember back in 1993, before "Angels In America" opened on Broadway (but had been incredibly acclaimed in London and San Francisco), it was the hottest property in the theatre world. Every single producer was absolutely dying to get even a small piece of it, just for the "cache" of being associated with the greatest play in a generation. Knowing all this, Tony Kushner, a true disciple of downtown, not-for-profit theatre (and an old school socialist to-boot), used his very strong bargaining position with all of these powerful producers to negotiate something that I seem to recall being controversial and perhaps, unheard of at the time in the world of commercial Broadway (and please someone correct me if I am wrong) -- he demanded that for every single performance a row of seats would be set aside for general rush at $25 a ticket. The producers gagged at first, but ultimately agreed (they didn't have a choice thanks to Kushner). After that, I remember seeing more Broadway shows (off-Broadway ALWAYS had rush) willing to designate an entire row for discount seating.

Unfortunately, Broadway doesn't have very many artists that have the power that Kushner had at the particular moment in time. We must rely on the goodwill of that desperate breed of Broadway producers who are scrouging for every dime that they can in order to make weekly running costs. Issues of general rush and other such policies are simply not at the top of their agenda as they try to maneuver the minefield of recouping $10+ million advances. Perhaps, at some point they will be willing to entertain the concept of a row of $20 general rush seats industry-wide -- clearly, though, at this point it is not at the top of their agenda.

Updated On: 1/6/05 at 01:15 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/6/05 at 3:09am

The box office staff can't just turn a blind eye. Secret shoppers do exist--and can get your butt fired.

And, can you possibly imagine the logistics involved should a theatre release empty seats 5 or even 10 minutes before curtain??

Massive lines, a late curtain, late seating, PANDEMONIUM!

And as audience goer and sometime Broadway usher--I'll pass!

BUT, I do agree that it would be nice if more producers could allow for rush tickets. But it's show BUSINESS.

[etoile]

Posted: 1/6/05 at 3:40am

As I read back through this thread I'm struck by a few comments that I find unsettling. First, Rathnait, my comment about available and affordable theater was not directed towards you. It was meant for Princeton when he wrote, "All I'm saying is that you shouldn't have to change your life in order to enjoy live theatre."

You don't. Live theatre is everywhere. Heavens, standing across the street from any stage door is watching freaking live theater. And it cost you nothing but time spent on a sidewalk. Theater is where you seek it.

The droning on the other day about the dismal "classics" that some endured, and were ruined for them forever by dismal high school productions they've viewed, made me laugh. I still see high school productions. And I haven't been in school for more years than I can count back. Why do I see them? Because I love theatre. It is a passion. How do you not see any production and not take something from it? How? Does not a bad production have you salivating to see a good one? Can you not envision changes you would have made? Is not the play the thing? How could anyone in the NYC area lament about a lack of affordable theatre? How?

But then Princeton goes on and takes exception at what Craig posted. I found Craig's comment simple to understand. Someone...anyone with computer and internet access is so far advanced and removed from those without such a tool. With my computer I can locate and read the complete text to HAMLET online. Imagine a student who has never read HAMLET, a student without their own text book, a student without access to any organized theater, a student...or anyone having no knowledge of a play as an art form. With a computer it can be brought to life. Maybe those without are more deserving of our compassion, or a need for cheaper tickets. Maybe those with DSL should cut back to dial-up so that they could afford that elusive Broadway ticket. It's all in where you put your priority, where you want to spend your entertainment dollar. Cut out the HBO and splurge on that ticket. Others make that choice...everyday.

I felt questioning Craig's commitment to this site, to theatre, was uncalled for. I found that disappointing. For Princeton to post, " But I know that I am 'entitled' to Broadway theatre, as is anyone who wants to experience it. Really ashamed of that last comment Craig."

NO ONE...NO ONE is entitled to a BROADWAY ticket. Again, NO ONE IS ENTITLED to a BROADWAY ticket. It is a business. If you don't want to pay the fare, wait for the tour. If you do, save your nickels, get a paper route. Elitist. No, realistic, unless you want to become a Broadway producer and set policy. Go for it. Change your little part the world.

I get the sense from some here that seeing a "Broadway" show is a status thing. That unless a show is considered "Broadway" it doesn't carry bragging rights. That they are more concerned with saying they've seen such and such, than to say they've seen a great work of art. That's what I find disappointing. There's not so much a love a theatre as there is a love of "putting on a show."

In an ideal world everyone would be able to afford every show they want to see. In an ideal world I'd be driving that Metallic Midnight Blue Jaguar that cost more than some people's homes. In an ideal world war and natural disasters would never occur. Children would never suffer. This is not, nor will ever be, an ideal world. You learn to suck it up and deal with it.

[TonyBWay]

Posted: 1/6/05 at 3:41am

I agree that prices for NY theatre can be quite outrageous, but to mount a successful show and keep it running they need to keep those seats filled at their regular prices. I do agree that a "rush" policy should be spanned just a bit, but its not likely.

The only thing I can say to those who are buying theatre tickets...keep your receipt! Its called... TAX WRITE-OFF if your in the business! or if you're studying theatre.