An Open Letter To All Posters on This Board - Page 5

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 9:23pm

" This is my opinion with Mamma Mia - get out and stay out and let in some new (and hopefully better) work of art."

"But there's no need to be as nasty as some members here are."

 

You're right.  Those nasty people should just get out and stay out.

 

 

Updated On: 5/5/15 at 09:23 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 9:34pm

They'll call you a MURDERER for liking Mamma Mia around here.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 9:38pm

Exactly Namo, off the top of my head - Mamma Mia, CATS, Phantom , Rock of Ages -  around here you're stupid if you say anything positive about long running broadway HITS.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 9:38pm

"They'll call you a MURDERER for liking Mamma Mia around here."

I prefer stone cold killer but hey, a compliment is a compliment any way you slice them uh, I mean it.

And I loved both Mamma Mia AND Rock of Ages (and I'm not joking about that either).  Does that make me a serial killer?

 

Updated On: 5/5/15 at 09:38 PM

[Different Drum]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 9:41pm

Fascinating thread.  Fascinating board.  Fascinating business - and one that doesn't suffer wimps and fools.

I've lurked here for over a decade and learned a great deal about the theatre from the lot of you. I'm thankful to you all for preparing me for the world-class kick in the ass that comes with producing a new musical to Broadway. Everyone in the project warned me not to read BWW and ATC. But these boards are not only a veritable master class - they are also the very definition of that most critical differential between success and failure: word of mouth.

We theatre professionals must maintain that elusive balance of thick skin to deal with the schadenfreude clique and thin skin that is required to be truly creative.  I recommend that everyone watch Jamie Kennedy's brilliant and hilarious documentary HECKLER. It should be required viewing for anyone working in the performing arts.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 9:56pm

Mighty interesting thread.

Interesting to see who feels tarred by the accusation of bullying and who doesn't. I've hated the bullying I've seen on this site when it's gotten severe, and sure hope I've never posted anything that felt like bullying to others. I certainly want everyone treated with respect here, just as I hope I've always treated others here with respect.

But to me this board serves a critical purpose that I don't want in any way compromised: I depend on this board for brutally honest assessments of every show that opens in New York, month after month, season after season. I want to know each poster's unvarnished take on the show they've just seen. What did they hate? What did they love? I have no trouble giving less credence to posters I hold in low regard. But I want everyone's input, even the trolls, even the idiots. I'm perfectly capable of sorting the opinions I'll value from those I'll ignore.

Please, please, let's not encourage soft-peddling of our critiques when we think a show falls short. Nice is different than good.

 

 

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 10:04pm

I still want a cast album. 

And leave Cats alone! 

Although, I'll be the first to pick on the dreadful Palladium revival. 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 5/5/15 at 10:15pm

MarkBearSF, you bring up a good point. I have wished for a show to close for that reason: if it's a bad show and it's taking up real estate. But of course, I don't usually post that feeling publicly. 

[IronMan]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 12:27am

To the OP:

I have worked more than my share of Broadway flops (as well as long-running hits).  I understand the emotions involved- at first you think that this gig might last years, you put in 80+ hour weeks of tech, then you start previews and your trusted friends who've seen it tell you in no uncertain terms that it stinks, and you realize that they're right.  But the camaraderie that develops in a company takes over and you begin to get very defensive about 'your' show.  How dare anyone criticize the hard work the company has put into it?

 

But as the saying goes, this is Show BUSINESS, not Show FUN.  

 

I also have wished that shows would close- even ones I was employed by! Why?  Because they were no damn good- or they were once good, but bad casting/upkeep has made them a pale imitation of the original, and even though some in the sparse audiences may leap to their feet at the curtain calls, how do you know that it isn't meant as irony or pity (or most often, people stand because someone in front of them is standing and they can't see)?  I don't want paying crowds to see shows that are so bad that it will stop them from buying a ticket to the next show to open- and I don't want to see that cringe on people's faces when I tell them where I'm working. Theater is ephemeral (or it SHOULD be, ahem POTO) and NO show should run forever.  Yes, even those that pay my bills.  

 

I have also been part of shows that I (and my trusted friends) have loved- but the critics didn't.  It's truly heartbreaking to listen to audiences that were obviously with us during previews suddenly become quiet the day after opening because they were told 'it wasn't good' -and anyone who says that no one outside the biz reads the reviews (or hears about them) is wrong. 

 

As for the posters on this board, it's quite obvious that some are knowledgeable, and some are uncredited jerks only here to stir the pot.  You must take every comment with a grain of salt- even those that agree with you. If you can't do that, you have no business in this business. I get the feeling from your post that you haven't been working Broadway very long (or you would be immune to this by now).   Recently I saw a bootleg video of an entire show I worked that flopped- and until I saw it from the audience's perspective, I had no idea just how ridiculous and terrible it really was.  When you're too close to a property, you can't objectively judge it. Years from now when you tell stories about your experinces in the theater, what do you think people will want to hear about?  Here's a clue: it isn't the hits. So enjoy the last week with your company and know that you were part of something that only a few people can truly know and understand. 

 

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 12:47am

"Uncredited jerk!" is my new go-to insult.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 6:55am

It's not just a matter of tying up real estate; it's a fact that financially successful shows (which are not necessarily successful because the audience is actually having a good time) tend to inspire more shows like them.

So if you don't like something, BY ALL MEANS say so long and loud, here and elsewhere, or don't be surprised when you have to sit through nearly identical shows a dozen times over the next 20 years. (ETA Your criticism probably won't make any difference, but you'll have earned the right to complain.)

But don't call other posters stupid and don't cheer when anyone loses his job.

Updated On: 5/6/15 at 06:55 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 7:09am

Iron man:  AMEN to every word you wrote.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 7:13am

Loved your post, IronMan. It made me chuckle when you mentioned seeing the bootleg of an old flop and it wasn't until you had the audience's perspective that you realized how terrible it. Very interesting and insightful comments indeed.

 

[mc1227]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 7:24am

As one who reads this board less frequently than I used to, mainly due to the negativity and nastiness of many posts, I appreciate the original post.

I do not let anyone's opinion influence whether or not I see the show, not critic or BWW poster.  I will see productions that I find interesting, actors or playwrights that I enjoy regardless of reviews.  That being said, i don't feel it's the audiences responsibility to see shows just to keep hard working people employed.  I know and have experienced job loss due to low sales, the arts are just another industry that is impacted by this.  There are many hard working unemployed workers who lose jobs who never get the high moments of success  that many in theater get to experience during their careers. I don't buy a car so a salesperson stays employed, so I don't see the connection with seeing a show to keep people employed.

i have expressed dismay in the past about the sharpened knives on this board and seemingly delight over a shows shortcomings.  It is unpleasant to read and I'm sure many connected to shows are hurt deeply to read them.  I hope posters can be a bit more classy when posting going forward because there is no need to be vicious and cruel, just say you didn't care for a performance or material.  The high road is always the best road traveled.  

[tazber]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 7:38am

Awesome post Iron Man.

[JayG 2]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 7:58am

Dear Jane2,

Some people don't spend 24 hours a day on the computer to respond to posts within ten seconds. 

 

 

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 9:08am

If someone thinks a work of art is bad, they aren't going to want it taking up the space of something they could potentially like better.  This is my opinion with Mamma Mia - get out and stay out and let in some new (and hopefully better) work of art.

And yet if anyone on here speaks poorly about Idina Menzel and the terrifying faces she makes when trying to scream out a note off-key, you are one of the first to swing back and complain. It's a two-way street, honey.

Such double standards and hypocrites on this Board. HILARIOUS. 

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 9:11am

Some don't, that's true. So what's your response?

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 9:39am

Y' know, folks, this is related to the topic after all. If you're going to anonymously throw snarky and mean spirited remarks at someone at least have the balls to back up your statement. This is especially mean when you're completely incorrect. Yes, I know we do have our share of posters with troubling issues, but I really hate cowards and wimps who hit and run.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 10:11am

Jane2, if you need a mirror I'll buy you one. But you definitely need to take a look in the mirror.

"If you're going to anonymously throw snarky and mean spirited remarks at someone at least have the balls to back up your statement."

AND, you need to go back and read what JAYG 2 wrote @7:58 am. In fact, memorize it.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 10:31am

To the OP, and others "in the business":

I didn't particularly like Dr. Zhivago, and I don't feel any guilt in calling a show terrible if I think it's terrible (nor did the OP ask us to feel bad about it). But I am always extremely appreciative of the hard work, on stage and off, that goes into making a show happen. Thank you!

[philly03]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 10:36am

I always love these threads - everyone's all "love and light and pro-theatre," then the moment an overly critically acclaimed show (Honeymoon), a bombastic epic (Zhivago), or certain composers (Wildhorn, new Schwartz works) mostly everyone trash talks it before even seeing it (given the attendance figures for a lot of these, many have not seen them).

I guess it's that whole negative is knowledge/power for some reason around here.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 10:43am

"If you're going to anonymously throw snarky and mean spirited remarks at someone at least have the balls to back up your statement."

Please back up that statement with examples.

"AND, you need to go back and read what JAYG 2 wrote @7:58 am. In fact, memorize it."

You mean about being on the computer so often? Yes, I definitely am. And I earned every minute of it. Happens that during the day I work on my art, at my desk. I  have my screen in front of me because I am either editing photos or drawing from them. Whenever I need a little break, I check out this site and others. 

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 10:43am

oops, double post

Updated On: 5/6/15 at 10:43 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 5/6/15 at 11:02am

philly (the good one!), while I understand your point, I think it's a bit more cynical than reality warrants. I think there's more positivity than negativity overall. This varies from show to show, of course. :)