Andrew Lloyd Webber Vs. Sondheim - Page 8

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 2:43am

Ive had a love/hate relationship with cats. I actually think its really incredible when Grizabella ascends to heaven. There are religious themes in the show that I think are so beautiful and of course a great score and amazing dancing cats!

[haterobics]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:04am

Possibly my biggest theater mistake ever was booking a good ticket for the Cats reunion tour a while back, because I remembered seeing way back when I was in high school and there was some silly songs like "I'm this type of cat, I'm that type of cat," but I couldn't for the life of me remember the story, or any of the dialogue between songs, so I figured I should go again and refresh my, err, "memory." Once maybe the third song kicked in, I realized in horror that I didn't forget anything, and the part I assumed I had forgotten never existed, and the part I wasn't that into was the whole show...

[somechrysanthemumtea]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:56am

Fine then, PhillyPinto, JUDGING from some previous actions of Andrew Lloyd Webber, I find him to have a terrible character and annoyingly money minded.

There, now are you happy? Jeez.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:58am

and you're getting that from where? Patti Lupone? I happen to LOVE Patti Lupone, but you can't say those things about someone if you don't even know him. Patti has her side of the story, and I'm sure he has his.

[Fantod]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 4:09am

For me, Lloyd-Webber is all pretty middling, but I find his shows entertaining. Sondheim, however, has wonderful things and terrible things in all of his shows, but most don't come off that well (personal opinion), so I'd say Lloyd-Webber.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 4:41am

Totally agree with you Fantod!

[A Director]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:14pm

Philly,

When Sunset Blvd opened in London, it got mixed reviews. Frank Rich's review was mixed and didn't care for Patti LuPone.

For some odd reason, a production with Glenn Close opened in LA. Former movie critic, Vincent Canby, reviewed it and raved about Ms Close. By 1994, Canby was the NY Times theatre critic. The Broadway production opened in 1994, not with Ms. LuPone; with Ms. Close. Once again Canby raved.

When Betty Buckley replaced Ms Close, the critics went back and reviewed her. Most critics said there was finally someone who could sing the role. Mr. Canby was one of the few critics who disagreed.

[RooMcGoo]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:23pm

This is not even a question! Stephen Sondheim. He never wrote about Cats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wboOf06tt5A

[ShakinBaconGirl]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:43pm

I think Webber wrote better music, but Sondheim is wonderful with lyrics. Now that I think about it, I really have never cared for half of Sondheim's scores. Webber is an idiot but he USED to know how to create beautiful music.

[ShakinBaconGirl]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 3:52pm

"and you're getting that from where? Patti Lupone? I happen to LOVE Patti Lupone, but you can't say those things about someone if you don't even know him. Patti has her side of the story, and I'm sure he has his."

It's not just Lupone. The reputation Webber has is completely justified. He is awful to artists.

[JoseLee_]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 4:22pm

I love them both for different reasons, but if I had to choose it would be Andrew Lloyd Webber. I love all his scores, even if some are a little repetitive in the show. The Phantom of the Opera, Evita, Sunset Boulevard, are some of my favorite shows ever.

I love Stephen Sondheim's lyrics.. I have all his cast recordings (seriously) and find that if I was at some of his shows LIVE, I'd probably go to sleep. No disrespect.. I love Gypsy & West Side Story.

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 5:04pm

while i absolutely love some of the shows and many songs ALW has written...such as JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR and EVITA...and TELL ME ON A SUNDAY! and the UNEXPECTED SONG both from SONG AND DANCE...SONDHEIM has many more delights in his column both songs and show-wise...there is rarely a song or a show i do not like from SONDHEIM...and with ALW having CATS in his portfolio which in my mind can't be forgiven, there are only a few favorites here and there...lol

(oopps!!!) Updated On: 12/14/14 at 05:04 PM

[Fantod]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 5:14pm

"TELL ME ON A MONDAY"

do you mean Tell Me on a Sunday?

[JRybka]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 5:46pm

Debating Sondheim and Lloyd Webber is like comparing a great greasy buger and a delectable aged steak. They are both amazing but totally different.

[baal]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 7:13pm

"Debating Sondheim and Lloyd Webber is like comparing a great greasy buger and a delectable aged steak. They are both amazing but totally different."

YES. I've been arguing this for years. They are completely different composers.

It all depends on what you're wanting to get from your theatre experience: something a bit more mentally engaging and sophisticated or something wonderfully romantic and melodic. I've never understood the need to criticize Lloyd Webber for the repetitive scores--the repetition of motifs has been going on in the Opera world for much longer.

They're both brilliant and groundbreaking in their own ways. I don't understand why some people feel the need to **** on either. Much of this will be forgotten in history, I'm sure, and they will both be remembered with the rest of the great composers of all time.



Updated On: 12/14/14 at 07:13 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/14/14 at 7:31pm

Arguing Sondheim's talent as a lyricist separate from his ability as a composer misses the point. Sondheim writes minimalist music that makes his lyrics comprehensible. If his lyrics were set to music by ALW, we wouldn't understand a word.

That said, I love minimalism in music. Look at "All Things Bright and Beautiful": it's as gorgeous as an instrumental as it is as a vocal number. To me, Sondheim is the greatest American lyricist of all time and the greatest American composer of the past 50 years.

ALW, on the other hand, borrows catchy tunes from Puccini, which is not a crime in and of itself. But because ALW gives every melody to every character, music no longer signifies character, rendering his shows dramatically thin. I don't mind the early works with Tim Rice, but everything since has bored me to tears.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:14pm

On the subject of Sondheim's thoughts on Webber I was reading Look, I Made a Hat and came across this section in the chapter on Passion: "This was a lesson I learned from Billy Wilder, a man whom I met for a little more than three minutes at a Park Avenue cocktail party sprinkled with celebrities. At the time (around 1960) Burt Shevelove and I were toying with the notion of transforming Sunset Boulevard into a musical. We had actually sketched out a few scenes, so when I found myself introduced to Wilder, the movie's director and co-author, I plunged right in. Blushingly, I allowed as how I was a co-author of West Side Story and Gypsy and now I had an interest in adapting his movie. "But you can't make a musual out of Sunset Boulevard," he snapped. Startled and dismayed, I assumed he meant the rights were unavailable. I was wrong. He continued, "It has to be an opera. It's a story about a dethroned queen." Instantly, I recognized that he was right and relayed the story to Burt and we abandoned the project; I had no desire to write an opera, which is a form I resist... As the subsequent musical by other hands proved (for me, at least), Wilder was right."
Also, as a present for Patti when she was opening Sunset, Sondheim gave her (as a joke) the "real Sunset musical" which was a recording of a couple of songs with music and lyrics by Dickson Hughes and Richard Stapley and the role of Norma sung by Gloria Swanson. According to Patti, Gloria was not the greatest singer.

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 01:14 PM

[lovebwy]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 2:07pm

There was a very funny sketch on one of Carol Burnett's shows. Not the one from the 70s but when they tried to revive it in the 90s.

It took place at a truck stop. Bernadette Peters was playing a waitress. The truckers started this very argument. Sondheim vs. Lloyd Webber. Bernadette and Carol sang some songs from both. South Park did a similar premise years and years later.

It is VERY hard to find, but I assure you, it aired circa 1991 on CBS on a Friday night.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:05pm

@Sally, Gloria Swanson wasn't a singer with a capital "S" but she has a pleasant voice, as proven here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhx9woRaRgE

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:16pm

Thanks MusicalMaster. In Patti's book she made it sound like Gloria was the worst singer in the world. But we know she likes to exaggerate.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 5:02pm

@Sally, like how LuPone always does?

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 6:49pm

"Webber writes crap music."
-Patti Lupone


Me too Patti...


Me too.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 6:52pm

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER FOREVAAAAAA

[Musical Master]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 6:53pm

@Anthony, LOL!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 9:53pm

Sally, I know Sondheim's story on Wilder and SUNSET and I wish he would stop telling such stories or at least admit he is merely outlining the conventions he himself uses to unify his own shows. (Other such conventions are that only educated people rhyme and only certain characters can sing.)

All of these are fine decisions for him to make, but they are not universal and natural "laws". The wittiest character in TARTUFFE is the maid, Dorinne. The characters in LI'L ABNER are illiterate, but rhyme up a storm. Every character in FORUM sings, however emotionally stunted he or she may be. Etc. and so forth.

Sondheim decrees that Leona in WALTZ "doesn't sing", yet how is she more emotionally arrested than Joanne in COMPANY? How is Norma more regal than Phyllis in FOLLIES?

I find ALW's SUNSET BOULEVARD thin, but not because it HAS to be an opera. Wilder proved as much when he made the film.