B'Way Beauty Sex Bust- Page 9

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 3:51pm

i have no sympathy for those who prey on children, nor for those who make excuses for them or try to explain away their actions. to liken one who abuses the most innocent and vulnerable members of society to those who suffered at the hands of huac is disgusting. maybe some people need to take the afternoon off and examine their own motives for defending mister old enough to bleed is old enough for me barbour.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 4:25pm

Stephanie are you against the law that states that the adult is responsible for sexual conduct with a minor? And are you for lowering the age of consent to 15?
Because this seems to be what you are advocating when you are talking about a child taking responsibility for her actions.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 4:40pm

All I'm saying is that a 15 year-old child has say over whether she gives someone head or not....

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 4:47pm

And it gets bigger and bigger...

[MaronaDavies]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 6:29pm

Nobody knows anything anymore but everyone is ready to act as an expert. It's "the context of no context." We don't have all the information but we're ready to pass judgement.

Let's cool it. And read George's obit at www.slate.com

Allofmylife, you've been a voice of reason in this thread. Thank you.

I feel that in this thread, I've been responding more to the opinions put forth about statutory rape and sexual abuse--not the case itself. That perhaps is why the thread is nine pages long, people have used the case as a springboard to discuss the larger issue.

I've judged because the statements Mr. Barbour has made freely, himself, have been extremely damning. However, you're right, he has not had his day in court, it's up to the jury, not posters on a message board to decide what to do. I'm not sure the case should have been in the news until after the trial began, just for the sake of maintaining a neutral jury.

It's a sad situation all the way around.

However, apart and aside from the case, I'm amazed by some of the views here on the subject of sexual abuse. Such as:

All I'm saying is that a 15 year-old child has say over whether she gives someone head or not....

Stephanie, it's very sad that as a young woman, you'd have such harmful views. If it were your little sister or daughter, would you feel the same way?

You don't seem to understand that the 15 year old's decisions are not the issue here. A 15 year old, scientifically and in the eyes of the law, is still a minor child. Even if they have genius IQs and are mature and wise, psychologically they're still somewhat different from adults. We don't charge 15 year olds as adults in crimes most of the time, because they lack the judgement to make adult choices. They might know what they want and what they do, but not with the same level of maturity, foresight or anything else. The same is true here.

"if it were me, I'd have gotten out of there." It doesn't matter. It's not the 15 year old's responsibility to "get out of there," it's the obligation of the adult not to put her into a situation that requires an escape.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 7:36pm

How many times do I have to say this:

MY OPINION does NOT have to be YOUR OPINION.


I don't expect to change yours, and you should respect MINE, even if you disagree.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 8:36pm

All this would be fine, stephaniethestar, if we all began with "in my opinion..." Then this would be a fair site. The problem is those people who scream "GUILTY!!!!!!" as soon as an accusation is made. To keep people like papalovesmambo from leading a lynchmob against the jail in the middle of the night, we have a jury system, where everyone gets his day in court.

Mr. Barbour is not a child molester. He is guilty of nothing. He has done nothing illegal...

He is ACCUSED of a crime. The above comments cannot and will not be changed until or IF he is coinvicted.

Let's not rape the law.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 8:47pm

agreed, allofmylife.

and while you guys are posing questions at me, how would you feel if you were accused of a crime and everyone and their mom said "OH, he's (or she is) guilty!!!" before your trial or any information was known?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 9:51pm

He is guilty of nothing. He has done nothing illegal...

He is ACCUSED of a crime. The above comments cannot and will not be changed until or IF he is coinvicted.

Please explain how that works. If he is convicted he goes back in time and does something illegal, of which he will be guilty?

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 10:01pm

Tom Cruise could tell ya!

[MaronaDavies]

Posted: 12/9/06 at 11:39pm

and I know....I find it so disgusting when someone has a conflicting opinion from my own...*vomits*....what is this world coming to?

Well, when your opinion is so very repugnant and disregards the safety of minors, and you post said opinion on a message board...you shouldn't be surprised when other readers voice their dissent. If you weren't prepared for others to disagree with your views; if you weren't ready to defend what you were saying...you shouldn't have posted.

This isn't just a matter of opinion; it's not as if we're talking about who was the best Fantine in Les Mis here. Perhaps some of us have been trying to get you to see that ethically and legally, your view here is very, very wrong. And no, I'm sorry, I don't respect the opinions of anyone who seems to think there's any justification whatsoever for abusing teenagers.


Updated On: 12/10/06 at 11:39 PM

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 12:50am

MaronaDavies, you are apparently misunderstanding the intent of my posts and your previous post was hypocritical. There are two sides of every arguement.

I expected disagreement. Those who post ANYTHING on this board, even something as simple as "who was the best fantine?" should expect disagreement. That is life. I'm sorry you don't understand that small fact.

Nowhere in any of my posts am I saying children should be molested. I think you all are ridiculous for insinuating I did. I have made my previous case and I no longer will repeat myself. You all disagree with me, I disagree with some of what you have said. END of story. LIFE GOES ON.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 1:58am

Before I say anything else, I have to get this out of my system: he just wanted her to come up to his office... he had a lot of things that they both could do...

Okay, now that that's done:

First off, please stop calling him a pedophile. A pedophile is someone who is attracted to prepubescent children.

Second, I'm not a big fan of statutory rape laws. My friend calls them the "Angry Parent" laws. I know that they need to exist, but when it comes to a certain age, I think that the kids in question often get off too lightly and it takes away any responsibility that they may have had. Yes, I know that minors cannot legally give consent, but I don't think that we should view the children as completely innocent themselves, especially in cases where they were completely fine with what was happening. So, yes, I think that there should be a law against being jailbait. Not that I'm saying that I want the age lowered or the laws repealed, though.

Third, I do know that was James Barbour allegedly did was illegal, and if he did indeed commit that act he should be punished accordingly. But I also I think that the parents should be punished for obvious negligence. I mean, he was groping her right in front of them? Seriously.

Sadly, the whole "going back to him" thing is psychologically plausible; look at the amount of abused women who stay with their husbands. I know that a lot of us would have told him to go to hell and reported it after he made the first move, but not all girls are like that and we shouldn't view them badly for it (though I can't imagine it will look good in court.) Also, it doesn't help that she was likely completely starstruck. But I also think that the girl should get some responsibility as well; not necessarily from the law, but from her parents or something, if it's true that she agreed to the sexual acts.

Updated On: 12/10/06 at 01:58 AM

[MaronaDavies]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 3:26am

MaronaDavies, you are apparently misunderstanding the intent of my posts and your previous post was hypocritical.

How exactly was my post hypocritical? I've read what you've posted here. You've repeatedly tried to justify the misconduct with statements such as " All I'm saying is that a 15 year-old child has say over whether she gives someone head or not.... " What is there to misunderstand about that?

I expected disagreement. Those who post ANYTHING on this board, even something as simple as "who was the best fantine?" should expect disagreement. That is life. I'm sorry you don't understand that small fact.

Don't patronize me, or anyone else on this board. Actually, I don't think you did expect that. People have disagreed with you and you've jumped on them. When posters have tried to reason with you here and talk to you like an adult, your only defenses have been "stop talking to me like a fangirl," "it's my opinion," etc. You've not been able to actually back up your statements with any sort of logical or reasonable argument.

I'm not going to read or respond to anything else you say here, because it's obvious that nothing anyone says here will get through to you. I only hope your damaging and harmful beliefs never affect anyone else. Updated On: 12/10/06 at 03:26 AM

[allofmylife]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 4:09am

The real problem on this thread is simply this:

There is only ONE absolute in all of this. One thing that is rock-bottom certain. 100% true. Swear-on-a-stack-of-bibles.

James Barbour has not been convicted of anything in a court of law. Nothing. He may be convicted, after a fair trial. He may plead guilty. . He may not. He may walk away a free man. But as of this date, EVERYTHING else is speculation by individuals who, if there was a police officer nearby would be told to go home and mind our own business.

That is why we have a judicial system and until it has spoken, anything that ANY of us say is stupid bulls**t.

And you all know it.

So getting back to who was the best Fantine....

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 10:00am

Steph..

You are about as distuging as RTFan.


End of story.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 11:17am

Stephanie, again, I don't care if this girl had slept with her entire high school. A 15-year-old does not have the psychological maturity to make the best decisions for herself. That's why these laws exist. It doesn't matter if she wanted it, agreed to it, even pushed him to do it. He was the adult. The responsibility lies with him.

[aspiringactress]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 11:29am

Allofmylife, serisouly thank you being the voice of reason.

As the daughter of a criminal defense lawyer, a lot of the speculation here, and the assumption on some people's part that he is in fact guilty, is pretty awful. Words like "the misconduct" can be pretty damaging without an "alleged" making its way in there.

[KQuill]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 11:54am

Just because the lawmakers decided that 15 year olds aren't capeable of making these kinds of decisions doesn't necceserily mean that someone can't disagree with that age...

[Neverandy]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 12:15pm

Again I ask-Since you feel that 15 year olds can control whether or not they give head to someone, should the age of consent laws be changed?
I am 28 and couldn't 100% control who I give head to. If Mike Tyson was physically persuasive enough I think I would probably end up taking one for the team.
The vast majority of my comments are based on the statements that Mr. Barbour has made. Also i think that we have a right to speculate and comment on this particular case. a majority of us are performers or are in some way related to showbusiness. Others on this board are fans. We are intimately aware of the Actor/audience member realtionship. As an actor I have seen and I have been in situations in which I could have taken advantage of someone.
As an actor I know all too well how diffcult it can be to deal with a star struck Fan. Just last year a 15 year old Girl started an internet fan site about me. She and her friends were very nice at first, they interviewed me and regularly contacted me through email. This was my first experience with any real fans. My first thought when they bagan the website was "Why?". I then realized that these were kids and that this would eventually die out as they matured a little. I was nice to them, but always mindful that these kids didn't really know, or want to know the real me. They just wanted to know the guy they saw on stage.
Everything was fine at first,(I actually thought it was a little strange-I am nowhere near famous) but around Christmas things got a little strange. I got an email from the president of my fanclub stating that she wanted to call me on the phone to ask me a personal question. I declined saying that I would prefer email (this was for my protection so There would be a record).
Well, on the day after Christmas she contacted me and started to talk to me about some very specific personal problems in regards to her sexual identity and possible orientation. In addition she talked about her attraction to me. She told me that I was her "Idol" and that I was the only person she felt could give her advice on the matter. I immediately, but cordially, ended all correspondance. There is no reason for her to be talkinig to me about that. I am no position to offer her advice or to counsel an obviously troubled teen. Do I feel bad? Of course. The girl was probably going through some unbelievable issues and she was reaching out for help. But I know that it was innappropritate for me to get involved, and I didn't want to put myself at risk.
I tell this story because I want you to know how Deeply Disgusted I am personnally to even think that James Barbour would take advantage of this girl in any way (and I would hope that everyone here would agree that having that girl in his bed and kissing her is taking advantage). When you are given the talent and luck to be in a position where people put you on a pedestal and admire you, it is your responsibility to never take advantage of your station.
Again keep in mind that I am basing my "OPINION" on the Statements that were made by Mr. Barbour. All of the other elements of this case-the 13 year old accuser from california, the dismissed case in florida-that will be dealt with in front of a Jury.

Updated On: 12/10/06 at 12:15 PM

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 12:31pm

Firstly, I have no idea who RTFan is, so that insult falls on deaf ears.

Secondly, how immature to say 'I'm no longer reading anything you write'....nah nah nah nah boo boo to you, too.

And anyways, I'm so done with this thread. I'm glad that all of broadway world thinks I support James Barbour's love of 15 year-olds. I never said what he did wasn't illegal. Thanks for assuming I thought as much.

and SporkGoddess, thank you (in a non-sarcastic tone) for your post. I agree. Or should I not say that because then they'll all yell at you too?

[KQuill]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 12:41pm

Neverandy you're sure not shy about posting your "credentials" on this board are you?

[ducdebrabant]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 12:48pm

The whole thing sounds fishy to me, but even if it's true, it's pretty small potatoes. The law defines social puberty differently from state to state. In some states you can marry at 14 or something. But by God, ANYWHERE they charge you with statutory rape, NOTHING mitigates it. The girl could look 30, you could have been shown a convincing driver's license, doesn't matter. Your a** is the law's. And yet the law cannot legislate physical puberty. If you have gone through puberty, have a libido, you are simply not going to wait for the Magic Birthday to have sex. You are either going to masturbate, or have sex with another minor, or have sex with an adult. In a state with an 18 year old age of consent, a 16 year old can have sex with a 17 year old, and nobody's committing a crime. But a year later, the same two people can have sex and the 18 year old can be sent to jail. THE SAME TWO PEOPLE. This sounds like a clear case of consensual sex. "Seduction," my foot. I don't care what feminazis say, seduction is not rape. I'm a gay man, and I've been seduced, and am glad of it. Fortunately for my seducers, I was of age and not a crybaby. But if I'd had a sexual encounter with a hottie actor post-puberty but prior age of consent, I'd be smiling over it now, not trying to sic the law on him.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 1:40pm

Let's end this with one thing we can all agree on.

Thank God we live in a nation where everyone - including Mr. Barbour, INCLUDING US - deserves and will receive a fair day in court.

THEN we can visit this story with renewed vigor, confident in the fact that justice took its course.

Now getting back to how crappy Wicked is....

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 1:42pm

I'd rather talk about Scientology now, which just so happens to be Mr. Barbour's religion of choice.