Best Orchestration... Really???

[beav]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 3:15am

Ok, so I know many may disagree with me on this, but...

Why is it that everyone thinks that Sarah Travis/Sweeney Todd should and probably will win Best Orchestrations of a Musical?

Now I say this as a conductor and music director, so I am not just some non-musical person throwing this out there. I DO respect the job that Ms. Travis has done, and it fits the production well, but it seems as if it will win just because of all the hype about the actor/musician concept. They really aren't, in my opinion, the best orchestrations of the season. (And no, I am not one of those people trying to say that just because it is not Tunick's big, grand orchestration of the original Sweeney--although those are brilliant!!) Jonathan Tunick did some very nice work on Color Purple this season also. He's a real pro and did a great job trying to make those pop songs sound better, and he wasn't even nominated. If you listen very closely to Purple's orchestrations, there is some really cool, amazing stuff in there. Larry Blank, who is finally becoming more widely known, gave Drowsy Chaperone a very distinct, period sound, and Mr. Lieb and Mr. Troob make Pajama Game sound very good considering Roundabout only let them have 12 musicians for a revival that should have way more.

Anyway, I don't mean to ramble on, but maybe there are others who feel the same way?? I just don't think there is any point of having this relatively new award if it is not judged fairly. It is such an objective thing and I do realize that the majority of Tony voters don't know much about music at all, let alone orchestrations.

Hmmmm... any thoughts???

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 3:24am

Yeah it's true. Most Tony voters no nothing about music. But most of the voters don't know a lot about the catagories. THat's why they're so many. I think you may not be realizing that what had to be done for Sweeney was to take SOndheim's AND Tunick's work and condense it. It wasn't just for these certain people but for certain people who played these certain instruments. She couldn't start her work until everyone was cast. She had to make due with what she had and make is sound stellar. I'm sure she didn't count on having 2 Cellists. She's gotten so much hype because she's had such a limited pallete to work with. She had to basically orchestrate each song with a different set of instruments because some people who were playing before are acting, others don't play certain instruments as well as others. I think it's a much bigger job than it seems. Now I'm not saying that she should win the Tony. I personally LOVE Jonathan Tunick's work in general and sometimes the actually score and the "score dressing" can't be separated. That's the human aspect of these awards. Sweeney Todd with a piano and triangle is by far better music than the color Purple's full orchestra and some people can't get beyond that.

[tophertilson]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 9:48am

It's all about the hype, agreed. But there is certainly a great deal of cleverness in the SWEENEY TODD orchestrations - the ability to balance it all with the vocals and still maintain the integrity of the score. If it wins it's because it is a very impressive balancing act (which is not to be confused with the best orchestration).

TT

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:10am

It's not about hype, it's not about uneducated voters - it's about the SWEENEY orchestrations being brilliant. The orchestral reduction is almost seemingly impossible. I hate THE COLOR PURPLE's orchestrations - they sound so thin and cheap.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:15am

Jazzysuite82---That was very nicely put.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:20am

I appreciate the Travis orchestrations because they made me hear the score again for the first time. After years of the Tunic version I was skeptical, but shortly after beginning to listen to the Travis version I felt as if I had never heard it before. That is an amazing accomplishment in my opinion.

[ALWrules]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:29am

If you really think about it, the ability to take a 29 member orchestra and cut it down to 11 or whatever musicians, only some of whom can play because they have to sing. She really is able to creatively bring out some of the nuances of the music, and makes it an interesting take on an amazing score.

[ahimsa]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:34am

I agree with the original poster. What was done with Sweeney makes it a great revival with great direction. I would prefer the orchestration award go elsewhere.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:39am

The orchestrations are brilliant on their own merit.
It is not about the concept or the hype.

Sometimes the "over hyped" choice is the right one.

[James885]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 10:58am

I also agree, the orchestrations for the Sweeney revival are brilliant simply due to the fact that Sarah Travis has managed to take a score written for a large (by Broadway's standards, because I think 29 is big for a Broadway orchestra) orchestra, condense it to be played by 10 people, and still keep all the musical motiffs and things from the original score.

In fact, one of the things I liked about the new orchestrations is that it brings some of these nuances to the fore, and allows them to be heard more easily. When I first listened to the revival CR, I found myself noticing little musical phrases that I hadn't heard on the OBCR.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 11:10am

Sometimes there's a reason for the hype.

Not only did Travis condense the entire score and still make it sound full, but she also manipulated (in the nicest sense of the word) the score so that it's not just background music or something to sing along to. This is not to take away anything at all from Tunick's orchestrations, which I could not admire, respect or enjoy more, but the score is now an even deeper expression of the characters. The music is almost literally a part of the characters and their relationships with each other in a way that it hasn't been before. I can't fathom how much work that took to make everything look and sound so effortless.

I think that Ms. Travis absolutely deserves this award. But there's no telling until the actual day.

[uncageg]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 11:50am

MusicalMo, I agree with you on the orchestrations for Color Purple. They are wonderful and still retain the signature sounds of the composers. Especially that of Ms. Russell.

[kgee30]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 11:51am

I think what Sarah Travis did was turn the music into voices -- she took a difficult score and made every single orchestration choice matter in a hundred different ways that serve to illuminate the whole show. Hard work but also a bit of magic at work there, I think.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 11:57am

I mean really...the more and more I think about what Travis did with SWEENEY, the more I get a migraine thinking about what the early process must have been like. Figuring out who can't play during a certain pard, figuring out which of the very few instruments should play what melody. It's GENIUS.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 12:20pm

There were 26 players in the original Sweeney pit. Although with the acoustics in the Uris (now the Gershwin) and the fairly covered pit, it sounded like 12 or so.
Updated On: 5/23/06 at 12:20 PM

[Kevinoes]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 12:24pm

I certainly admire how it has been brought down. But I still prefer the original orchestrations.

[leefowler]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 1:16pm

It's inevitable that Travis is going to win the Tony, for the simple reason is that never before in the history of musical theatre has the main concept of a show revolved so completely around its orchestrations. (and please don't remind me of No Strings). This Sweeney Todd revival is bascially ABOUT the orchestrations!

But I'm actually a little queasy about this, because the real genius at work here is Jonathan Tunick, and Travis' orchestrations, although brilliantly clever, are still basically a reduction of Tunick's work. On the plus side, at least the Tony award will make more sense here than it did when Billy Joel won best orchestrations for Movin' Out!

[Smaxie]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 1:23pm

I recall being blasted out of my seat seeing the original Sweeney at the Uris. The full orchestral sound was used several times to scare you, and though I was an impressionable teen at the time, it sure worked on me.

While admiring Travis' work, my favorite reduction/new orchestration this season was what Dick Lieb and Danny Troob managed to do with a mere 12 musicians for The Pajama Game. It still has a very full texture, for such a small orchestra.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 1:31pm

"Jonathan Tunick did some very nice work on Color Purple this season also."

Oh, I beg to differ. I found the orchestrations, especially the circa-1972 overture, as bland and pedestrian as the score.

What makes Sweeney's orchestrations so brilliant is the fact that Travis was able not only to score the show with the limitations of the actors' abilities for each instrument, but to balance the instumentations themselves based on which actors are acting and which are playing instruments from scene to scene. It is an amazing balancing act flawlessly exeuted and quite frankly, the only thing about the revival that interests me at all.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 1:58pm

There's a really interesting interview with Sarah Travis in the Summer '06 issue of The Sondheim Review. I don't know if it's available online, but buy an issue and check it out anyway. She talks about how she went about putting the orchestrations together for Sweeney.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 2:07pm

I think those of you bashing Tunick don't realize how brilliant he is. YOu say the orchestrations were bland and pedestrian, like the score. Well that's what makes Tunick so great in my opinion. He does his job and the voice of the composer really comes through. Look at any project he's done. Color Purple, Marie Christine, Sweeney Todd all sound drastically different. YOu'd never tell that one person did them all. If you find the orchestrations bland I generally think it's prob because the compositions are bland.

Posted: 5/23/06 at 2:46pm

James said:

"condense it to be played by 10 people, and still keep all the musical motifs "

All the motifs could have been performed by a harmonica, couldn't they? Does that make it brilliant?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 3:01pm

answer to the thread title?
uh...yes!

JS, noone bashed Tunick in this thread. All admire him, but dont think that his CP orchs hold up to Travis' this year. Had the orchestrator tony been awarded in 1979, he'd have won...by this time he'd be rivaling Prince for "most tony awards on the mantle."

After hearing the recording of this Sweeney, I am even more enamored of what was accomplished by Sarah, everyone actually, but especially Sarah. The score lives anew imo.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 3:15pm

To some extent, I think that the orchestrations in Sweeney are brilliant because of the actor/musician context, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's pretty stunning that they've been able to convey the brilliance of such a complex score with so few actors who are also the vocal performers. I can understand thinking that it's not fair because orchestrations for more standard productions are being compared with the actor/musician "gimmick," but there's really no denying that what great work Travis has done with Sweeney. They're more challenging orchestrations to work out, simply by the nature of the production.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/23/06 at 3:22pm

I'm with Smaxie...love those PG orchestrations.

I am, however, a fan of Travis' orchestrations for this Sweeney. It's probably the one thing I truly enjoy about this revival (besides the talent of the cast, I should say). BUT, I still think it would have been better had every time someone died, their instrumentation was lost. AND WHY DIDN'T THEY CUT THAT FINAL BALLAD OF SWEENEY TODD???