Bootlegs during Quarantine — Page 5

completely against it. I apologize first for this following language I will use. But this s what my heart is.

The bootleg will make broadway go downhill eventually. why?

when there r bootleg --> some people wont spend money to go to the theater --> some show will not make enough profit or survive, lot of income will reduces --> all the income of actors are effect --> people turn 'AWAY' from BW because they cant make a living and more talents in BW will go for television.

At the end, you will lose some really good talents because they wont be able to survive it.

And here s BW board, it s a place for people who love BW to come and discuss things. So even if 'WE' still cant support the people we love ---- WHO WILL?

Cut the crap about not living in US. I live in Asia and have no direct flight to US. Last year I save up and travel to US twice, one for watching Waitress cus 2 people I love Shoshana and Jeremy Jordan are in it. Another time on New Year because there r concert of Kristien Chenoweth in LA and few days later Jeremy Jordan concert in NJ (yes, I also fly accross the coast for this 2 events)

So I repeat, stop this things about not living in US. it s a matter of you love it enough or not. If you want to really do something strong enough, you will find the way. It s matter of saving and priority. If I can do it, so as other people. Im just middle class (even slightly lower than that even compare to Asia standard. And our living is a lot of cheaper than US and Europe so think about my income value).

 

If u r filming those Bootlegs, just remember you are killing them slowly . All the downhill from here is from you hands. SHAME ON YOU. We have seen how many people now that go for TV and not doing BW because they  wont earn enough. Stoo turing the blind eye on this. 

Updated On: 5/3/20 at 02:25 AM

By just talking about which bootleg is good or bad is equally support the process of destroying BW situation. Some people are just that ignorance.

Updated On: 5/3/20 at 10:14 AM

When Broadway reopens I hope people actually take the no recording rule seriously. Broadway will have an incredibly difficult time financially after this, so if you record shows, you actually are now stealing from them. I don't care where you're from or how old you are-being healthy and safe is way more important than your need to see a show RIGHT NOW. You'll survive. Let the shows come back and be strong, don't steal from them. I hope people realize this. 

Lord forgive me for what I am about to say.

I am NOT going to jump on one side of the fence or another here. Just not here for that disaster. Goodness knows I have my own thoughts and feelings.

What I WILL say say is that this conversation defaults too fast and hard to grandstanding on either side of the matter with absolute refusal to listen. That does not bode well for anyone. Ever.

My observation on the matter will be simple and few. Anyone with the knowledge to seek out a bootleg of a show and with the ability to get to a live performance of the show WILL be attending a live performance of that show, whether or not they have access to the bootleg. And while not about bootlegs, the President of Actors Equity has stated as recently as last week in public that contrary to old ideas of theatre business, evidence HAS show very strongly that video recordings of live shows actually encourage ticket sales to the live performances and other productions - commercial Broadway producers seem to one of the few hold outs on admitting that fact.

That said, the idea of 'stealing' is generally not framed very accurately... setting ALL moral opinion on bootlegs themselves aside, there is DECIDEDLY a difference between hardcore fans sharing and trading copies of a show and someone who bootlegs a show and sells copies for profit and gain and those things should be judged wholly separately.

As far as the act goes, something that actively disrupts other audience members or the actors is different than something discreet or something that bothers YOU because you have you strong opinion. Not saying HOW you should feel about it or how you should respond, but the matters are different... and that also determines how the production staff responds to individual incidents. Trust.

And also, you enter an entirely different realm when you start discussing shows that have actor nudity...

Vintage Snarker, THANK YOU! You're right on target. 

And, what scares me the most is that roughly ten years ago, when I was around there age, there was something important about theatre that I discovered on my own. I can't afford to see everything I want that's playing on Broadway. And, that means that I miss shows I really wanted to see. But, I lived. And, I'm local, it wasn't like I had to travel to the city to see a show. But, it feels as if you tell a young theatre fan to get a summer or after school job, that way they could afford to save and get ticket, they get upset because that's not what they want to hear. College aged kids who feel that they shouldn't have to work to get a ticket and despite the idea of finding a job, working, and using what they earned to see a show .

Updated On: 5/5/20 at 01:17 AM

The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or not quarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, on YouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloading going on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes across a show on YouTube, why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they? 

Updated On: 5/5/20 at 07:45 PM

VotePeron said: "Islander_fan said: "A couple of things. The whole notion that if one actor is in favor of them and another one isn't, how the hell does that one person speak for the views of the entire community of actors on Broadway. If we as theatre fans can have varying opinions, why do some thing it's all or nothing regarding performers?

Because one performer posting a bootleg will get 10x the exposure of 4 performers tweeting against them. Not to mention the act of perpetuating bootlegs. You can’t tell me that performers posting bootlegs don’t have a significantly larger impact on the matter than those who don’t. 

Listen, I’m not against them. I mean, the hundreds of Beetlejuice bootleg TikToks, which the show basically invited fans to do as a method of staying alive, is a bit excessive."

I feel that I can say that. Especially since there are actors out there who watch bootlegs of their own work sometimes. I mean, sure, actors are entitled to have an opinion on the matter. We all are. But, I honestly think that the only groups of people who know, and have their own view on the subject are those who are either strong theatre fans or this who work on Broadway in one way or another. That being said, since we all know that they are out there, and we do know that there are some who act on Broadway who find them to see their own work, I can't see the difference between actors asking for/ watching them vs a theatre fan doing the same. There is, to me, no different between say, me asking for one or for Renee Rapp and Karen Olivo to go onto their social media accounts and ask fans to send them video of their respective performances. They are just people and to say that what they do matters more is to put them up on a pedestal. 

Look, personally, I don't have a strong view one way or the other. I mean, I never could wrap my head around why people do it. But, at the end of the day, I see no difference between actors watching and looking for them, and fans doin the same. 

Bootlegging a Broadway show is copyright infringement ? Well, now we know someone else who didnt go to law school. Bootlegging may be wrong for a number of reasons, but you aren't copying someone else's work and passing it off as your own when you film something you are not supposed to. Id be very curious to see any legal precedent for that...

Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "also...Stealing: the act of taking something without permission. When you record, you are illegally capturing actors performances, lighting design, costume designs, direction...roll your eyes and act superior alll you want but it’s true. Actors calling out people filming have even said that."

Go to law school and you'll know why what you've said here isn't even remotely true. Copyright infringement is not theft or stealing in any way, shape, or form. And creating a bootleg is copyright infringement. And point of fact, owning or even buying a bootleg is not illegal (making and selling/distributingis, though)."

Stealing (according to Google's definition): take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it. 

You're telling me that recording a production doesn't remotely relate to this? We're talking about recording peoples set designs, costume designs, lighting designs. No one asks for permission to do these things. No one in the audience has the legal right to do so. No one who records the bootlegs intends on returning them. So yes, in a broad sense of the word, they are stealing. This word has been used by actors when talking about people recording their shows. Get off your high horse already. 

CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me."

Why are you talking about "bootleg culture?" Clearly, I was talking about the average person, like myself, who comes across bootlegs on YouTube, for example. If you can give me a reason why I shouldn't watch them, I'd love to hear it."

Erg sorry. Okay here's what I'm trying (and obviously failing) to say...I think it's perfectly fine to watch bootlegs. What really gets me is people who say that they're entitled to bootlegs, don't see a problem with people filming, ask people to film them, think they're entitled to a recording of any performance just because they can't be there. Go back to what VintageSnarker said. I think that sums up perfectly what I'm trying to say. 

CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "hearthemsing22 said: "CT2NYC said: "The back-and-forth on this thread is getting tiresome. No one is questioning the legality of bootlegs. Technically, they're illegal, but, obviously, just watching them isn't, and their impact on a show's ticket sales is likely negligible. The question was about whether or notquarantine is a good enough reason to watch them, even though you haven't in the past. What it comes down to is that most people who watch bootlegs simply find them online, onYouTube or Reddit, for example. There's no buying, trading, selling, or downloadinggoing on. On YouTube, there are tons of bootlegs available, and many of them have been up for YEARS. So, if someone comes acrossa show on YouTube,why should they abstain on principle alone? If the copyright holder doesn't care enough to have it taken down, why should they?"

There are people who are quote unquote "Masters". They have a collection of bootlegs and they either sometimes sell them, trade, or they hold on to them and (I don't truly understand, but I'll give it a shot) they get to decide if they make it available, who they give them to, etc. There is an entire bootleg culture that both infuriates me and confuses me."

Why are you talking about "bootleg culture?" Clearly, I was talking about the average person, like myself, who comes across bootlegs on YouTube, for example. If you can give me a reason why I shouldn't watch them, I'd love to hear it."

Erg sorry. Okay here's what I'm trying (and obviously failing) to say...I think it's perfectly fine to watch bootlegs. What really gets me is people who say that they're entitled to bootlegs, don't see a problem with people filming, ask people to film them, think they're entitled to a recording of any performance just because they can't be there. Go back to what VintageSnarker said. I think that sums up perfectly what I'm trying to say."

If you think watching them is perfectly fine, then why are you arguing? I believethat most of the people on this board don't think they're entitled to bootlegs, so I think you're directing your aggravation at the wrong audience. The "bootleg culture" you mentioned lives on Reddit, not here.It's a crazy time right now, so, rather than getting whipped up into a frenzy over it, just relax and watch a bootleg. There have been some good ones on YouTube recently."

Why do you assume that I've been watching them? Never assume. I've been way too preoccupied with streaming websites and Netfflix to look at bootlegs. But thanks. You go ahead. I'll stick with comfort TV shows/movies. 

Look, I come from the point of view that bootlegs should be used as an educational tool and not as the main form of entertainment. If I lived in NYC, or had the means to afford every touring show that came through my city, I would do so. But I don't always have the money for it. And I only watch bootlegs of shows when they are no longer appearing on Broadway or on the tour circuit. However, I think that bootlegs, for the most part, are consumed in a healthy way to either gather interest about a show and convince people that they need to see the production in one way or another, or they provide a way for directors, actors, tech crew, etc, to gain understanding about how certain aspects of a show worked on Broadway or in other professional settings. 

 

I also wish that Broadway and the National Archives would release older recordings for purchase because I think they would make a lot of money that way. I have paid every time a recording has come to theaters, and then I pay for the DVD's, streaming, etc, because that is worth it to me. I would still KILL to see performances live, but not everyone has the means to do so.