#26
Posted: 4/4/20 at 10:16pm
A lot more bootlegs are popping up. On YouTube, new boots of both Beetlejuice and Waitress appeared on my homepage
Bootlegs during Quarantine — Page 2
#27
Posted: 4/4/20 at 11:18pm
Kad said: "Personally, I would rather know that the artists involved in what I am watching have A) consented to being filmed and B) been adequately compensated for having their work recorded and distributed in perpetuity. "
And just who are yout to need that information? Are you that demanding with other aspects of toy consumer life? Before you buy clothes, or electronics, or whatever, do you research that out wasn't manufactured at a sweatshop?
#28
Posted: 4/4/20 at 11:46pm
You’re comparing bootleg videos of theatre productions to consumer goods? Seriously? What a specious, facial argument.
All bootleg videos were made without the consent of any person involved with the production and no additional compensation was given to anyone involved. That is a fact.
And I work in the industry and have a vested interest in making sure people are treated fairly.
And who are you, precisely, who feels they are owed any recording of any particular production, regardless of how it came to be?
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 4/4/20 at 11:46 PM
#29
Posted: 4/4/20 at 11:56pm
>How - in ANY WAY - are the NECESSARY????
Because in many cases they're the only preservation of productions/performances that get lost to time. You've often seen bootleg footage used in documentaries and we've all heard Ethel Merman's final performance in Gypsy. They're time capsules. If producers were more willing to invest in recording shows I'd be more apt to listen to their concerns, until then dun give a ****. If people can do it discreetly, have at it.
#30
Posted: 4/5/20 at 12:12am
TheatreFan4 said: ">How - in ANY WAY - are the NECESSARY????
Because in many cases they're the only preservation of productions/performances that get lost to time. You've often seen bootleg footage used in documentaries and we've all heard Ethel Merman's final performance in Gypsy. They're time capsules.If producers were more willing to invest in recording shows I'd be more apt to listen to their concerns, until then dun give a ****. If people can do it discreetly, have at it."
Wow. That post reeks of entitlement. Broadway has been, is and will forever be a business. Sure, there's history behind it. But, making films or even cast recordings of every show isn't a smart financial move in any way shape or form. All that is owed to you is a performance for a show you paid a ticket to get.
#31
Posted: 4/5/20 at 1:15am
Hey, that's great but a lot of shows die on the vine and are never heard from again despite how good they might be. Bootlegs help to fill that gap in a way. Do you think Carrie ever would have had the continued cult status it did if the bootlegs didn't exist? And in the last decade with the rework brought about from that cult status it's become a regional staple.
It's not about entitlement, it's about reality. A lot of shows can barely afford making their week to week so people pick up the slack. It's not a negative against the show's grosses and if you do it discreetly have at it. Most of the people who do it obnoxiously aren't doing it to keep the show and performances out there, but for their own personal recollection and have no clue what the hell they're doing...
It's not about entitlement, it's about reality. A lot of shows can barely afford making their week to week so people pick up the slack. It's not a negative against the show's grosses and if you do it discreetly have at it. Most of the people who do it obnoxiously aren't doing it to keep the show and performances out there, but for their own personal recollection and have no clue what the hell they're doing...
#32
Posted: 4/5/20 at 2:01am
Carrie always had a cult status. Bootlegs never came into that equation. So, that's a bad example. In fact, I am sure that there were those who saw the MCC production that knew little or nothing except the fact that the show was based on a Stephen King novel and closed and opened on the same night on Broadway.
You love learning about Broadway history? Great, I do too. Pick up a book or watch a good documentary on the subject. Even go to the Performing Arts Library archives if you want. But, to say that you're going to watch bootlegs and think they are okay because producers aren't preserving the show in anyway for historical archival reasons is in fact a self entitled school thought. you feel that you should be able to watch stuff for history so you're going to do it however you want. Sounds like self center entitlement to me.
#33
Posted: 4/5/20 at 7:46am
Not a fan of bootlegs for the excellent reasons Kad previously noted. I've always wondered if any in-between step would be for theatre companies to make lower res videos available in a format locked to a smaller window (you can't make them full screen). Dance companies have often done this with excerpts from their numbers. It gives you a taste of the live performance, but is sufficiently inadequate that it would be unlikely to discourage someone from paying to actually see the show.
#34
Posted: 4/5/20 at 11:26pm
poisonivy2 said: "So in 2016I ran across a bootleg of Waitress. I was intrigued and bought a ticket. I ended up making 6 trips to the diner before the show finally closed.
Same with Dear Evan Hansen. So many shows where a bootleg snippet got me to buy a ticket. Can't tell you how much money I've probably forked over because I saw a bootleg of that show."
While that's great, I'd like to point out...Beetlejuice was having a decline in sales. It was most likely going to post a closing notice after the Tony Awards. However, after their Tony Awards performance, ticket sales skyrocketed at a rate no one could've seen coming. I do not believe bootlegs are a valid excuse for the only way people get into theater. Or even top of the list. Shows would get plenty of money without someone who watched a bootleg buying a ticket(s) after seeing it.
#35
Posted: 4/6/20 at 12:24am
Genuine question, has a bootleg, or a pro-shot even, ever stopped anyone from watching a production?
Watching a bootleg is nothing compared to the full experience of being in the theater. For me, the excitement comes from the live element and just being fully immersed and unbothered for a few hours.
I generally try to avoid any clips of shows I am really interested in. If anything, the bootlegs are the ones that have pushed me to watch a show for the millionth time, like hearing Jessica Vosk sing Defying Gravity. Told myself I would never watch Wicked again, but I had to hear the Vosk live.
#36
Posted: 4/6/20 at 12:32am
Statistically, the answer to your question can't be zero. But I can't imagine it puts that much of a financial dent in things.
Personally, the ones I watch most of the time are productions I didn't know existed until they were closed or too many countries away for me to get to, or existed when I was a novice theatergoer and I didn't have access to them. Once in a while I'll watch a video of a production I saw and would like to relive a bit of again. (Sometimes with a different cast.)
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#37
Posted: 4/6/20 at 3:47pm
I would give my eye teeth (the real ones, not the dentures!) for a bootleg of the HELLO, DOLLY! revival's final performance--the one where Gavin Creel broke down on stage.
"Long live God!" (GODSPELL)
#38
Posted: 4/6/20 at 6:46pm
I'd also like to note that people have got to tone down the dramatics. You'll go on living if you don't see a bootleg of a show. I promise.
#39
Posted: 4/7/20 at 7:49am
hearthemsing22 said: "I'd also like to note that people have got to tone down the dramatics. You'll go on living if you don't see a bootleg of a show. I promise."
On that same note, performers and producers will also go on living if someone watches or makes a bootleg.
#40
Posted: 4/7/20 at 1:52pm
Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "I'd also like to note that people have got to tone down the dramatics. You'll go on living if you don't see a bootleg of a show. I promise."
On that same note, performers and producers will also go on living if someone watches or makes a bootleg."
On a different note -- your actions result in stealing something (potential income) from them -- how exactly are they harming you by not providing illegal access to intellectual property of which you have no ownership rights? What are your "damages"?
#41
Posted: 4/7/20 at 3:38pm
I see where you're coming from, but it was never possible for me to be an audience member of many of the shows I've watched.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#42
Posted: 4/7/20 at 3:40pm
LizzieCurry said: "I see where you're coming from, but it was never possible for me to be an audience member of many of the shows I've watched."
Then in that case you don't have the right to see them -- it's not a difficult concept.
#43
Posted: 4/7/20 at 3:59pm
Wasn't an audience member to PLENTY of shows that I have a Playbill for...do I have the right?
#44
Posted: 4/7/20 at 4:09pm
windowwaving said: "Genuine question, has a bootleg, or a pro-shot even, ever stopped anyone from watching a production?"
I can't speak for anyone else of course, but the only time a bootleg has stopped me from seeing a show was when I didn't like it (Dear Evan Hansen and Hadestown; full of talent and a catchy song or two, but just not my thing). And to be honest, those two shows weren't on my radar to being with, so it wasn't likely I would go anyway, if I didn't watch them.
On the contrary, watching bootlegs have pushed me to see shows I otherwise wouldn't have seen. I initially thought the idea of a Mean Girls musical was "eh" for lack of a better term, but the bootleg made it seem like nonsensical fun that I wanted to experience in person and—well, it was just that. Dumb fun that I enjoyed enough to go back and see it more than once.
Same thing for Six. Thought the costumes were tacky and the concert setting was gimmicky, which it still is, but seeing the bootleg and how pumped up the stage/audience was made me want to experience it in person. I haven't yet due to the virus, but I definitely will.
Updated On: 4/7/20 at 04:09 PM
#45
Posted: 4/7/20 at 4:12pm
Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "I'd also like to note that people have got to tone down the dramatics. You'll go on living if you don't see a bootleg of a show. I promise."
On that same note, performers and producers will also go on living if someone watches or makes a bootleg."
I'll stick a camera on your job to film you while you work. Without your consent or even making it obvious that I'm filming you. Then I'll post it all online (of course, months after charging those who want to watch it now) for everyone to see. You'll go on living, I'm sure.
#46
Posted: 4/7/20 at 4:21pm
PutonyourWarPaint said: "Wasn't an audience member to PLENTY of shows that I have a Playbillfor...do I have the right?"
Huh?? I don't understand your question. Are you asking if you can own a Playbill for a show you have not seen -- yes you can. S
#47
Posted: 4/7/20 at 4:32pm
I just want to put out a not-so-hypothetical example.
Deaf West Spring Awakening was on Broadway for just a few months. There was no cast album, because half of the cast wouldn't be able to be represented on the cast album. Andy Mientus has said that the cast tried the entire run to get a filmed production so that the show could be preserved - and yet it didn't happen. And on top of that, there was no tour of the show, even though one was announced. Multiple actors from the show have mentioned that they've watched the bootleg of the show available on YouTube.
Now imagine someone gets into Spring Awakening specifically because of this cast. Let's say they saw Alex Boniello in Dear Evan Hansen, or Patrick Page in Hadestown, or Sandra Mae Frank on Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist. And they want to dive deeper, but they can't, because the only record that the show was on Broadway is a Seth Meyers performance, a Broadway.com vlog, and a Kickstarter-funded Tony performance.
Then they find a bootleg on YouTube.
Now what?
I don't want to prolong an argument, because there are much more important things to worry about right now. And I know that each person on this board has their opinion on this issue, and one post isn't going to change that. I just thought it was an interesting example, one that has solidified my position - as an actor, writer, and lover of theatre.
"I think that when a movie says it was 'based on a true story,' oh, it happened - just with uglier people." - Peanut Walker, Shucked
#48
Posted: 4/7/20 at 5:21pm
JSquared2 said: "LizzieCurry said: "I see where you're coming from, but it was never possible for me to be an audience member of many of the shows I've watched."
Then in that case you don't have the rightto see them -- it's not a difficult concept."
The elitist jumped right out of you, didn't it?
#49
Posted: 4/7/20 at 5:33pm
There are many, many forms of entertainment. I'm not entitled to see Wicked. No one is. If I don't have the money to pay for the people making that show happen, then I'm not entitled to watch a performance. There are many, many free forms of entertainment, and if I can't pay for those that requires payment, it doesn't mean I can steal them. If I can't pay to go to Disney World, I'm not entitled to jump the turnstiles and enjoy it anyway.
#50
Posted: 4/7/20 at 5:39pm
QueenTwinnied said: "JSquared2 said: "LizzieCurry said: "I see where you're coming from, but it was never possible for me to be an audience member of many of the shows I've watched."
Then in that case you don't have the rightto see them -- it's not a difficult concept."
The elitist jumped right out of you, didn't it?"
If honesty is "elitist", then yup, I'm proud to be an elitist. Too bad the "deplorables" have turned elitism (which is just a "fancified" way of saying educated) into such a horrible concept. "God Bless 'Murica!"
