Bootlegs during Quarantine- Page 6

[VotePeron]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 10:17am

The bootleg discussion took a sharp and very prominent turn yesterday on Twitter/Instagram. Won't mention much because I'm not looking to get banned just for free speech, but after the Frozen company spread a clip of the final minute of the show shot from the mezzanine, people seem more divided and vocal than ever about the morality/ethics of it.

Thoughts?

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 11:16am

VotePeron said: "The bootleg discussion took a sharp and very prominent turn yesterday on Twitter/Instagram. Won't mention much because I'm not looking to get banned just for free speech, but after the Frozen company spread a clip of the final minute of the show shot from the mezzanine, people seem more divided and vocal than ever about the morality/ethics of it.

Thoughts?"

I want to grab the person that brought it up,shake them and say "WHY?????". I agree with a lot of people on here-the topic has been debated to death. But what I've noticed is that it's mainly younger people who are for bootlegs. They're the ones asking for "content". It makes me so glad that I grew up in an age without social media. I feel like there is an underlying sense of competition among these so-called theater "stans". Who can see shows, who can get certain actors or people to notice them. When I was younger I was more concerned about many things, but certainly not obtaining productions illegally. They seem to be demanding, entitled, and expect to see things whenever they want. It doesn't matter where you're from- there are always things in life that you'll have to pay for. Theater is one of them. And there are PLENTY of ways to be exposed to the arts without watching a bootleg-location has nothing to do with it. We only care because now we are in a society who places value on some superficial things, like how many followers and likes we get instead of being good people. I'm tired. 

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 2:52pm

My thought is that She Who Shall Not Be Named offers a weak and laughable argument, especially when it comes to older/closed shows. Please explain to me how watching a bootleg DVD from the 80’s has any effect on the current industry. It’s extreme and unnecessary.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 4:22pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "also...Stealing: the act of taking something without permission. When you record, you are illegally capturing actors performances, lighting design, costume designs, direction...roll your eyes and act superior alll you want but it’s true. Actors calling out people filming have even said that."

Go to law school and you'll know why what you've said here isn't even remotely true. Copyright infringement is not theft or stealing in any way, shape, or form. And creating a bootleg is copyright infringement. And point of fact, owning or even buying a bootleg is not illegal (making and selling/distributingis, though)."

Stealing (according to Google's definition):take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

You're telling me that recording a production doesn't remotely relate to this? We're talking about recording peoples set designs, costume designs, lighting designs. No one asks for permission to do these things. No one in the audience has the legal right to do so. No one who records the bootlegs intends on returning them. So yes, in a broad sense of the word, they are stealing. This word has been used by actors when talking about people recording their shows. Get off your high horse already."

I don't care what Google says. The LAW is very clear. Copyright infringement is NOT stealing or theft, which requires the intent of deprivation of a physical object. I'm not on a high horse. It's the law. Just because you want to make up your own definition doesn't put me on a high horse. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 5:40pm

Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "also...Stealing: the act of taking something without permission. When you record, you are illegally capturing actors performances, lighting design, costume designs, direction...roll your eyes and act superior alll you want but it’s true. Actors calling out people filming have even said that."

Go to law school and you'll know why what you've said here isn't even remotely true. Copyright infringement is not theft or stealing in any way, shape, or form. And creating a bootleg is copyright infringement. And point of fact, owning or even buying a bootleg is not illegal (making and selling/distributingis, though)."

Stealing (according to Google's definition):take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

You're telling me that recording a production doesn't remotely relate to this? We're talking about recording peoples set designs, costume designs, lighting designs. No one asks for permission to do these things. No one in the audience has the legal right to do so. No one who records the bootlegs intends on returning them. So yes, in a broad sense of the word, they are stealing. This word has been used by actors when talking about people recording their shows. Get off your high horse already."

I don't care what Google says. The LAW is very clear. Copyright infringement is NOT stealing or theft, which requires the intent of deprivation of a physical object. I'm not on a high horse. It's the law. Just because you want to make up your own definition doesn't put me on a high horse."

Does calling it copyright infringement make you feel better about something that's illegal? Whatever works for you. You're still taking material that isn't yours without permission. Doesn't make it any better, it doesn't make filming a show okay. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 5:46pm

My favorite part of this thread is how it's exactly the same as every single other thread on this that can be found using the "search" feature. 
 

[DAME]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 6:04pm

Jordan Catalano said: "My favorite part of this thread is how it's exactly the same as every single other thread on this that can be found using the "search" feature.
"

Thats ok girl.  You got nothing better to do.  The more the more.  If you feel like it... give yourself a project.  Count them , categorize them...  whatever.  

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 7:13pm

DAME said: "Jordan Catalano said: "My favorite part of this thread is how it's exactly the same as every single other thread on this that can be found using the "search" feature.
"

Thats ok girl. You got nothing better to do. The more the more. If you feel like it... give yourself a project. Count them , categorize them... whatever."

I am literally laughing out loud hahaha that's great. Same should go for the people on other social media platforms who decide to bring up this topic basically every month? Every other week? HAHA. So funny (no sarcasm, I genuinely laughed at your comment). 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 7:22pm

hearthemsing22 said: "I don't care what Google says. The LAW is very clear. Copyright infringement is NOT stealing or theft, which requires the intent of deprivation of a physical object. I'm not on a high horse. It's the law. Just because you want to make up your own definition doesn't put me on a high horse."

Does calling it copyright infringement make you feel better about something that's illegal? Whatever works for you. You're still taking material that isn't yours without permission. Doesn't make it any better, it doesn't make filming a show okay."

No, because calling it copyright infringement is what it is.  You are wrong. Stop spreading your ignorance because you clearly have no understanding of the law. Recording a show isn't "taking material" under the law,  so just stop already.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 7:42pm

Fosse76 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "I don't care what Google says. The LAW is very clear. Copyright infringement is NOT stealing or theft, which requires the intent of deprivation of a physical object. I'm not on a high horse. It's the law. Just because you want to make up your own definition doesn't put me on a high horse."

Does calling it copyright infringement make you feel better about something that's illegal? Whatever works for you. You're still taking material that isn't yours without permission. Doesn't make it any better, it doesn't make filming a show okay."

No, because calling it copyright infringement is what it is. You are wrong. Stop spreading your ignorance because you clearly have no understanding of the law. Recording a show isn't "taking material" under the law, so just stop already."

My lord you need to calm down. I'm not "spreading my ignorance". I wanted to learn more about copyright infringement, so I looked it up (instead of attacking you, since you're oh so happy to attack me, give it a rest. It's enough). Under the definition, it says "It is another term for piracy or the theft of someone’s original creation, " So yes, it is stealing. But you taught me something. So can you just for the love of God give it a rest? Leave me alone. 

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 5/20/20 at 9:42pm

When I made this thread, I didn't intend it to be a rehash of the monthly conversation this board seems to have about bootlegs.  I thought it would be interesting to examine it under a different light.  When people criticize people who watch bootlegs, the usual criticism is "Why watch it with less quality online when you can see it live?"  In a situation like this, you literally can't see it live.  But the thread took a turn back into the normal back and forth, and I realize now that none of this will actually spark a proactive discussion, and nobody's mind will be changed.  To be honest, when I saw Patti and Lesli's Instagram stories/tweets about the issue, I was hoping desperately that this thread wouldn't be revived because it only sparks vitriol between members of this board and we never get anywhere new, no matter how hard we try.

So...

Whoops.

My bad.

[treblemakerz]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 3:46am

So, uh...not to dredge this thread back up, but has anyone else taken a good scroll through Daniel Goldstein (associate director of Come From Away)'s twitter the past two days? Because if you want to see out of hand...

[InTheBathroom1]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 9:23am

So disappointing. I loved Daniel’s work on Unknown Soldier and was a fan of his. But this is just not it. Some bad bad takes.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 10:59am

I can’t find the original comments but I think I can see from comments that he compared bootlegs to child porn?

[hamiltonstradition]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 11:38am

He said something along the lines of "If you don't watch child porn because it is illegal, why are bootlegs different?"

He also replied to multiple people telling them to "Shut the f*** up' and that he hopes "People like this never see the show again."

Updated On: 5/23/20 at 11:38 AM

[treblemakerz]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 12:21pm

For those who can't see the original tweet: I've never been great about knowing how to upload screenshots/pictures here, but his original tweet in response to someone's defense of bootlegs (I believe specifically about how watching them was not an issue if they were already filmed and out there) was "One could make the same argument about child porn. You didn't film it. No crime in watching."

Several people (who he has dismissed as just teens, though myself and several other "adults" were also put off by his comments) including CSA survivors tried to point out that that's a poor and harmful comparison but he seems to be digging his heels in and intent on continuing to call a bunch of kids half his age d***s and telling them they don't deserve to see live theater.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 1:00pm

Here are screenshots of the original tweets.

https://twitter.com/laurjbrown/status/1264023499821273094?s=21

https://twitter.com/laurjbrown/status/1264025155409530880?s=21

 

This guy is an absolute joke...

This child literally said broadway isn’t art.

Updated On: 5/23/20 at 01:00 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 1:04pm

OOF.

Twitter, killing careers one tweet at a time.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 2:08pm

Jordan Catalano said: "OOF.

Twitter, killing careers one tweet at a time. "

You’d think being the director of the godspell revival would’ve been career killing.

[InTheBathroom1]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 2:12pm

I’m just shocked he kept trying to push the comparison. Like dude, say you were wrong and move on. He kept bringing it back up.

I also suppose now is a bad time to tell Daniel I took an audio boot of Unknown Soldier

Updated On: 5/23/20 at 02:12 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 2:34pm

The ones who protest it that much usually want them to most.

I am NOT naming no names, Pa*ti.

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 5:15pm

Jordan Catalano said: "The ones who protest it that much usually want them to most.

I am NOT naming no names, Pa*ti."

When this all first happened, I saw someone tweet, "That's rich coming from the person who told me to my face that she watches bootlegs of her shows."

Just some food for thought.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 5:16pm

I am neither confirming nor denying that that is 10000% true.

[inmyownlittlecorner]

Posted: 5/24/20 at 12:02am

Who’s gonna tell Daniel that Peggy Gordon (original Godspell cast member off-broadway) posts bootlegs to her YouTube channel.....