Cursed Child... right or wrong to support?- Page 2

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 8:33pm

QueenTwinnied, I understand why you feel that way. And you are completely within your rights to not want to have anything to do with her and her work (I never got into the Harry Potter craze, personally, and have no desire to see the play myself).

[Pauly3]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 8:40pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Pauly, not all opinions are worthy of respect. Especially not where harm is being done. Opinions like JKR's pose a serious threat, and we can't just gloss over that."

 

What opinion has she expressed that has specifically caused harm, where she does not also specifically express protection of another group?  It's this sort of balance and nuance that is disregarded that I find so ridiculous.  I may be missing something, and if so, I'm happy to be educated.  Which is why I am asking for an example.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 8:52pm

Fine. Then instead of whining about it on a message board, go stand outside the Lyric Theatre before every performance of Cursed Child and personally shame the hundreds of children who love Harry Potter and their parents who grew up with Harry Potter who are on line to witness one of the most magical plays ever to hit Broadway.

100%
 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 9:03pm

I would also like to point out that this play has given at least one trans actor their Broadway debut, and I suspect it has provided work for many other trans people as well. Some good has come out if it.

[sinister teashop]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 9:22pm

Jay Lerner-Z said:

"Has anyone considered becoming a Larry Kramer at the door as the crowds come out, passing out trans supportive literature?"

Larry Kramer had a lot of issues but he wasn't a fool. I think he would instead of protesting in front of a show about magic wands and wizards be more likely protesting in front of Fox News or Sinclair Broadcasting, two major media companies that broadcast daily murderous hate directed at trans people from their nyc offices. That is right, the major broadcasting sources of deadly anti-trans propaganda comes from right here in nyc.

Updated On: 9/14/23 at 09:22 PM

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 9:39pm

“All that being said keep Beyonce out of your damn mouth.”

 

see this is where selective activism comes into play. You’re allowed to not support this show, hate Rowling (a trash human) for her views on trans people. But your argument goes to the wayside when you forgive artists for performing in countries (and accepting millions to do so) that hate LGBTQ people. The world is complicated, I get it. But picking and choosing what to support ain’t helping.

I think OP needs some nuance in their argument as well. That being said…pretending JK Rowling isnt anti-trans is gross. 

 

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 9:50pm

sinister teashop said: "Larry Kramer had a lot of issues but he wasn't a fool. I think he would instead of protesting in front of a show about magic wands and wizards be more likely protesting in front of Fox News or Sinclair Broadcasting, two major media companies that broadcast daily murderous hate directed at trans people from their nyc offices. That is right, the major broadcasting sources of deadly anti-trans propaganda comes from right here in nyc."

Correct. Because Larry, unlike a lot of these teenyboppers on TikTok, wasn't a slacktivist.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 10:07pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: ""You just worry about yourself"

Too many people already do that. People only worrying about themselves is why the world is so fcked.

If I believe harm is being done, it's hard to just keep scrolling."

Try harder. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 10:09pm

QueenTwinnied said: "JK Rowling absolutely is anti-trans and to pretend she isn't is.....shameful.



I agree with OP that spending money to support this show is wrong. Deny it all you want, but you're lining her pockets and keeping her works relevant. I was a massive HP fan growing up and I didn't see the last Fantastic Beasts movie or purchase that video game earlier this year. As a NB gay person I do not feel comfortable knowing my money is going to her and I side-eye people who play it off like it's no big deal.



All that being said keep Beyonce out of your damn mouth"

But Beyoncé did a whole Dubabi concert which is totally anti-gay. Like it’s illegal. So that’s okay?

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 10:15pm

I don't think anyone is denying that Rowling is anti-trans. But the selective activism exhibited by a certain poster in here (Rowling can F off, but it's totally okay for Beyoncé to give her talents to a country that literally outlaws homosexuality) is yet another example of lazy activism. It's not "chic" to criticize Beyoncé, but everyone does it with Rowling, so you're just gonna roll with that.

It cheapens your argument significantly.

[BarnabyTucker]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 10:31pm

I would encourage anyone who is taking the time to engage in this conversation that's not going anywhere to instead utilize their valuable time to read up on TransNewYork and the different services and opportunities that are available to trans and gender non-conforming individuals in NYC. 

Donate your time, money, and energy to engage with the LGBTQ+ community in a meaningful way.  

Fighting with strangers on a Broadway message board ain't gonna change a damn thing. 

LINK: https://transnewyork.org/

Updated On: 9/14/23 at 10:31 PM

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 11:03pm

I think some folks are missing the fact that people with a large platform have the ability to influence public perception and public perception then has the ability to influence policy or, say, an uptick in violence, so it’s not too hard a line to draw that Rowling’s words could lead to harm.

We live in a capitalist society and much of our power comes from voting with our wallets. When it comes to making financial decisions, it’s important to grapple with how one’s money is potentially being used once it passes into another’s hands so I think the OP’s considerations, and this discussion in general, are worthwhile. As someone else mentioned, in 2023 it’s nearly impossible to make a 100% morally “clean” purchase but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep asking questions.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 11:39pm

History is littered with terrible people involved in masterpieces or beloved properties in Film, TV, stage, literature, etc.

If you personally can't or don't want to support anything Harry Potter because of JK Rowling, I respect that.

But others shouldn't be told they can't enjoy something, especially something they might have a very deep and long-standing connection to. The purity test is an unfortunate era we are in right now and it can so often lead to hypocrisy when it comes to drawing lines. Everyone has things they will tolerate and I only get frustrated when they tell others what's ok to tolerate and what is not. It's an individual decision.

[hork]

Posted: 9/14/23 at 11:46pm

Rowling is not anti-trans. She just thinks biological sex shouldn't be ignored. That's not at all the same as being anti-trans. She's said repeatedly that she's not anti-trans. Eddie/Suzy Izzard said she's not anti-trans. When like 90% of the world actually is anti-trans, Rowling's opinions should be the least of anyone's concerns.

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 1:47am

BroadwayNYC2 said: "“All that being said keep Beyonce out of your damn mouth.”



see this is where selective activism comes into play. You’re allowed to not support this show, hate Rowling (a trash human) for her views on trans people. But your argument goes to the wayside when you forgive artists for performing in countries (and accepting millions to do so) that hate LGBTQ people. The world is complicated, I get it. But picking and choosing what to support ain’t helping.

I think OP needs some nuance in their argument as well. That being said…pretending JK Rowling isnt anti-trans is gross.

"

STFU. If you knew anything about Beyoncé or attended her recent tour, you would see how she stands up for the LGBTQ+ and has her entire life. It’s not my problem that you don’t know who Uncle Johnny is. Beyoncé doesn’t spew vile rhetoric against my community on a near daily basis. 
 

Comparing JK Rowling to Beyoncé is beyond disingenuous, but then again I suspect you don’t know anything about whom you speak. 

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 1:49am

RippedMan said: "QueenTwinnied said: "JK Rowling absolutely is anti-trans and to pretend she isn't is.....shameful.



I agree with OP that spending money to support this show is wrong. Deny it all you want, but you're lining her pockets and keeping her works relevant. I was a massive HP fan growing up and I didn't see the last Fantastic Beasts movie or purchase that video game earlier this year. As a NB gay person I do not feel comfortable knowing my money is going to her and I side-eye people who play it off like it's no big deal.



All that being said keep Beyonce out of your damn mouth"

But Beyoncé did a whole Dubabi concert which is totally anti-gay. Like it’s illegal. So that’s okay?"

Did I say it’s OKAY? I think people bringing up Beyoncé and holding her to a different standard is disingenuous. JK Rowling is a hideous, vile, hateful human being and to compare her to Beyoncé (a lifelong LGBTQ+ ally) is nasty. 

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 1:50am

BroadwayRox3588 said: "I don't think anyone is denying that Rowling is anti-trans. But the selective activism exhibited by a certain poster in here (Rowling can F off, but it's totally okay for Beyoncé to give her talents to a country that literally outlaws homosexuality) is yet another example of lazy activism. It's not "chic" to criticize Beyoncé, but everyone does it with Rowling, so you're just gonna roll with that.

It cheapens your argument significantly."

I don’t care. I said what I said and you can read my other replies for further education. 

[BJR]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 7:11am

She didn't write the play. Yes, she makes money off it, but she's making thousands of dollars a minute regardless, from all the books, films, theme parks and merch. And if she was suddenly broke tomorrow, not happening whether or not you see CURSED CHILD, she would still have a megaphone (she painfully misuses) as the most successful female author in history.

And the show is created by wonderful people whose politics and art couldn't be more opposite from her tweets. (As noted above, the production even cast trans+ actors in the production.)

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 8:06am

This is entirely up to the individual. Choosing not to go will deny JK Rowling of a few cents, but it also denies income to all those involved in creating the show every night. Where you choose to draw your name in the sand is entirely up to you.

At the end of the day, if you were to choose to abstain from every product and service that financially benefitted someone who said or did something that you find offensive, you would likely end up living naked and shelterless in the middle of the woods somewhere. No one is going to do that, so do what you always do: carefully weigh how much this affects you and those you love, and make you own decision. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks about Rowling, and if you decide a night at The Lyric doesn't negate your values, don't feel guilty about it.

[Doug Giffin]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 9:11am

Rowling has revealed herself to be a horrible person, and I try not to support her. But as others said, each person has to make their own decisions and reconcile their love for Harry Potter with the deeds of the author.

That said, each time I've seen the show, the relationship between Albus and Scorpius has become more overtly expressed. Both actors were non-binary the last time I saw it. And as mentioned, trans and non-binary actors have been in prominent roles in productions around the world. It's almost like a "F you" to Rowling. I can support that, and all the wonderful talents who bring awareness and acceptance to the masses.

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 9:14am

All I can say, is that it is not about just "anti trans" with this person anymore.  I am aware of the organizations that she is now supporting and endorsing, and they are among the most vile and radical groups that one could imagine.  These groups, some closely affiliated with neo-nazi supporters, are threatening the liberties and rights of many people, not just the LGBT communities.  Those who choose to make money off of her material will have to live with their consciences, I suppose.  Meanwhile, public libraries here in the US are being threatened with bombings.  It is becoming more difficult to disassociate ourselves from the responsibility of our actions - or inactions.  

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 10:20am

I don't understand why so many people are being so obnoxious to me. My concerns are entirely legitimate. I also don't understand why some seem to think we can only concentrate at one thing at a time. I can fight FOX News, and I can fight JK Rowling. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I'll call out wrong wherever I see it, if I can. What's so wrong about that?

Jason, I fully appreciate the fact that trans people are murdered. I don't need to be told that. Have you never considered what the root causes of that might be, or what we can do about it? I'm glad you're done here if your only goal is to minimize my concerns and tell me they don't matter.

Thank you to those who seemed to appreciate what I am trying to say, it makes me feel less alone.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 10:26am

P.S. QueenTwinnied, Beyoncé WAS a lifelong ally. Not anymore. She can't do a Judas on us and still expect to be hailed. She's nothing more than an amoral corporate brand.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 10:32am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I don't understand why so many people are being so obnoxious to me. My concerns are entirely legitimate. I also don't understand why some seem to think we can only concentrate at one thing at a time. I can fight FOX News, and I can fight JK Rowling. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I'll call out wrong wherever I see it, if I can. What's so wrong about that?

Jason, I fully appreciate the fact that trans people are murdered. I don't need to be told that. Have you never considered what the root causes of that might be, or what we can do about it? I'm glad you're done here if your only goal is to minimize my concerns and tell me they don't matter.

Thank you to those who seemed to appreciate what I am trying to say, it makes me feel less alone."

Thanks so much for your juvenile response and suggesting I don't understand the power of language. My point, which I will naively choose to believe you are not too ignorant to understand, was that the presence of Cursed Child on Broadway causes no direct harm to the trans population, unlike the other examples I specified.

Instead of easily attacking you as others have done, I spent significant energy reacting to your posts in good faith and with thoughtful information, something you earlier praised.  But your continued absolutism, having to get your way and have your perspective validated, and reactionary replies indicate it is a waste of time to do so.

You appear to be one of those individual who cannot understand or chooses to ignore how their continued obstinate nature actually impedes winning over others to the position they advocate as evidenced repeatedly in this thread.  Good luck with that.

 

 

Updated On: 9/15/23 at 10:32 AM

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 10:37am

AKarp2013 said: "Fine. Then instead of whining about it on a message board, go stand outside the Lyric Theatre before every performance of Cursed Childand personally shame the hundreds of children who love Harry Potterand their parents who grew up with Harry Potter who are on line to witness one of the most magical plays ever to hit Broadway.

I know that it's now wrong for people to have minds of their own, but it actually is possible to disagree with what JKR has said, and still loveHarry Potter.It's also possible to disagree with what she says and not view her as a trash human being. Think whatever you want, she's given more money to charity and done more for good causes than anyone on this board ever will in all their life."

I completely agree with you. "It's...possible to disagree with what JKR has said and still love Harry Potter" --this is absolutely true. Would you attack someone who bought a ticket for their child who has been begging to see the magic onstage? Would you attack the child? Is it wrong for someone who never read the HP books to support the play, which isn't even written by JKR? Granted that might be a bit of a stretch to say someone who hasn't read any HP book would see the play but I'm sure it happens. It's just insane how people are trying to control what people can enjoy. How they're cancelled or something if they mention they like something that the bandwagon has decided to say no to. How is this play harmful? Can someone point to an instance in the show where it targets a group?