Cursed Child... right or wrong to support?- Page 3

[Kad]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 10:40am

Worth noting that in an inverse of this, conservatives have had success this year by boycotting and applying pressure to businesses like Target, Starbucks, and infamously Anheuser-Busch for their anodyne support of Pride and LGBT (and particularly trans) folks. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 10:47am

QueenTwinnied said: "BroadwayNYC2 said: "“All that being said keep Beyonce out of your damn mouth.”



see this is where selective activism comes into play. You’re allowed to not support this show, hate Rowling (a trash human) for her views on trans people. But your argument goes to the wayside when you forgive artists for performing in countries (and accepting millions to do so) that hate LGBTQ people. The world is complicated, I get it. But picking and choosing what to support ain’t helping.

I think OP needs some nuance in their argument as well. That being said…pretending JK Rowling isnt anti-trans is gross.

"

STFU. If you knew anything about Beyoncé or attended her recent tour, you would see how she stands up for the LGBTQ+ and has her entire life. It’s not my problem that you don’t know who Uncle Johnny is. Beyoncé doesn’t spew vile rhetoric against my community on a near daily basis.


Comparing JK Rowling to Beyoncé is beyond disingenuous, but then again I suspect you don’t know anything about whom you speak."

But she took money from people who are literally killing and outlawing being LGBTQ... Those are simply the facts. Beyonce doesn't say ANYTHING. She doesn't do interviews, socials, etc. Not comparing the two at all, either. It's just interesting to me that you bring this up and then ignore the other stuff. But carry on. (And I say this as a fan of Beyonce and the tour was fantastic) 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 11:07am

Jason, not everybody is neurotypical. Maybe I misread your tone, or misunderstood your point... I don't know. Please believe me when I say that I mean every word of what I've written, and am not here to seek attention or cause friction. There is so much passive aggressive superiority going on in here maybe I confused your intent.

The continued success of this play and the HP franchise, in my eyes, legitimizes JKR's stances and lets her believe that the majority agree with her. Pressing her on further and further. She has tweeted that all she has to do is check her bank account to know she's right. Perhaps the play itself is not inherently dangerous but completely overlooking the cloud hovering over it most certainly is.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 11:39am

In this late-stage capitalist world, it’s impossible to prevent your money from flowing up to terrible people, many of whom are actively making the world worse. There’s nothing wrong with pointing that out and with having some lines with how you materially support businesses or individuals. 
 

It’s always surprising to see what brings out the “I can do what I want and how dare you suggest I stop to think about it” strain of libertarianism on this otherwise erstwhile liberal board. 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 11:47am

Kad said: "It’s always surprising to see what brings out the “I can do what I want and how dare you suggest I stop to think about it” strain of libertarianism on this otherwise erstwhile liberal board."

Interestingly, among my libertarian friends, making economic decisions based on moral values is absolutely central to their vision of a society that can keep bigotry at bay without government intervention. Admittedly, though, these are culturally liberal libertarians (they wouldn't be my friends otherwise), and they probably aren't representative of the movement as a whole.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 11:49am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Jason, not everybody is neurotypical. Maybe I misread your tone, or misunderstood your point... I don't know. Please believe me when I say that I mean every word of what I've written, and am not here to seek attention or cause friction. There is so much passive aggressive superiority going on in here maybe I confused your intent.

The continued success of this play and the HP franchise, in my eyes, legitimizes JKR's stances and lets her believe that the majority agree with her. Pressing her on further and further. She has tweeted that all she has to do is check her bank account to know she's right. Perhaps the play itself is not inherently dangerous but completely overlooking the cloud hovering over it most certainly is."

I would like to reiterate the point made earlier that you can support the play and also disagree with JKR. It doesn't mean they're completely overlooking it and it doesn't make someone transphobic (just saying that, completely aware you did not say that) or mean they want to put people in danger. Actually, aside from being Harry Potter, how even is JKR associated with the play? How did she contribute?

When it comes down to the original question asked by the OP, I do not think it is wrong. I think people are way too sensitive nowadays and if anything is JKR affiliated it's like "omg boycott immediately!" Have there ever been protests outside the Lyric?? 

Updated On: 9/15/23 at 11:49 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 11:58am

Any Wizarding World property generates revenue for Rowling, regardless of whether she wrote every single word or just signed off on it. I personally don’t think any of the books or related media themselves- Cursed Child especially- perpetuate any anti-trans or bigoted ideology (many will disagree), but I get people not wanting to give her a cent. 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 12:08pm

The play will probably close soon.  Only the success of the upcoming re-boot of the Harry Potter franchise will determine how much the consumer has let this franchise shape their behavior.  Maybe I'm being a Pollyanna, but it seems like consumers are reaching the breaking point with franchises, brands, re-boots, and having a knee-jerk reaction to the overly familiar.  Until then...

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 12:52pm

If I felt that Rowling was hateful it would be one thing.

I don't. 

Rowling is expressing a point of view about sex and gender.  We need an open and real discussion about sex and gender.  We need people to be free to speak their thoughts.  As a society, we are at our infancy in discussing these issues.  There will be growing pains.  Open argument and exchange of ideas is important and necessary to progress and understanding in this area.  

Take on Rowling!  Disagree with her!  Let your voice be heard!  

But as for me, what she has said is no where near the level in which I feel the need to boycott.  If others feel differently, fine.  They are free to not go. 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 1:31pm

I don't think she's just "sharing a viewpoint".  She's made it her personal crusade to prove that she's "right" in de-legitimizing trans rights and trans women, all under the aegis of "I love the trans community, BUUUUT".  Of ALL the things a person of her wealth and influence could be waving the flag for, it's kind of insane and, for me at least, proof positive that mega-wealth feasts on the soul.

[OhHiii]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 1:45pm

We live in a world where keyboard warriors will demand purity tests for every person they encounter on the internet and if you don't 100% agree with how they are approaching an issue, you're garbage. They demand that you "choose a side" on every single thing as if every choice is black and white. When in reality life is nothing but shades of gray. There are never clear cut answers that way. That's not how life works. But the perpetually online wouldn't know that.

If you're going to berate people for spending their money how they see fit (and frankly, the vast majority of the general public outside of twitter and online message boards don't even know what JK Rowling has even said on the topic), then I hope you aren't tap tap tapping away on a cell phone serviced by AT&T or Sprint (GOP donations), don't watch anything on Warner Brothers or HBO Max (GOP donations), or Disney (GOP donations). Did you see the Barbie? Welp...

And further, I hope you aren't driving a car that's made in the United States (all of the big 3 are major GOP donors), carrying an iPhone or a MacBook with a chip in it that is made in China where humanitarian issues are rampant, including ethnic Muslim genocide). 

None of you live up to the purity standards you place on others. None. And none of you are doing anything more than typing away. There's been nary a picket line outside of Cursed Child. 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 2:09pm

No one was talking about those companies but those are some nifty straw men ya got there.

By your yardstick no one should stand for anything. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 3:13pm

verywellthensigh said: "No one was talking about those companies but those are some nifty straw men ya got there.

By your yardstick no one should stand for anything."

Quite the oversimplification of what I said, but ok lol. Everyone has agency over their own decisions and there are more productive ways, tangible ways of making an impact on the wellbeing of trans and non-binary people's lives than wagging your finger at faceless strangers on the internet. I'm personally not engaging with Wizarding World properties because I won't be putting my money toward it. But assuming that a stranger is morally corrupt for not having that exact same stance as me wouldn't change a thing and is again not how life works. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 3:20pm

OhHiii said: "We live in a world where keyboard warriors will demand purity tests for every person they encounter on the internet and if you don't 100% agree with howtheyare approaching an issue, you're garbage. They demand that you "choose a side" on every single thing as if every choice is black and white. When in reality life is nothing but shades of gray. There are never clear cut answers that way. That's not how life works. But the perpetually online wouldn't know that.

If you're going to berate people for spending their money how they see fit (and frankly, the vast majority of the general public outside of twitter and online message boards don't even know what JK Rowling has even said on the topic), then I hope you aren't tap tap tapping away on a cell phone serviced by AT&T or Sprint (GOP donations), don't watch anything on Warner Brothers or HBO Max (GOP donations), or Disney (GOP donations). Did you see the Barbie? Welp...

And further, I hope you aren't driving a car that's made in the United States (all of the big 3 are major GOP donors), carrying an iPhone or a MacBook with a chip in it that is made in China where humanitarian issues are rampant, including ethnic Muslim genocide).

None of you live up to the purity standards you place on others. None. And none of you are doing anything more than typing away. There's been nary a picket line outside of Cursed Child."

It's so funny because people are screaming at others and it's like...oh okay so then you're perfect and have never done anything wrong. Gotcha. **Not you, people who attack others for who/what they support 

[blaxx]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 8:39pm

Perfect example of double moral standards.

Things are unacceptable unless it's something I'm into. Then it's ok. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 9/15/23 at 11:28pm

"I don't understand why so many people are being so obnoxious to me. My concerns are entirely legitimate. I also don't understand why some seem to think we can only concentrate at one thing at a time. I can fight FOX News, and I can fight JK Rowling. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I'll call out wrong wherever I see it, if I can. What's so wrong about that?"

Maybe because people find you obnoxious at times. Somebody posting that they are excited to go to a Beyonce concert really don't care about your opinion of where she makes her money or decides to financially support. People all over the world have enjoyed some form (books, movie, play) of "Harry Potter" for over two decades. You expect everyone to thank you for telling them they are wrong to enjoy entertainment because you politically don't like JK Rowling. You can't just enjoy a TV show (Dancing with The Stars), you have to make an issue about the gender of the dancing couples. Try once in a while being positive with a post and say you actually liked something for a change instead of always being the "angry young man". Your welcome.

 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 11:17am

No.

My concerns are legitimate and I'm not going to be shushed.

Have a nice day, Zeppie.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 11:20am

It's a personal decision that each person has to make on their own whether or not to support it. People have different moral standards, priorities, and opinions. I don't think arguing is going to sway anyone on either side of the issue.

[xoxobwayjohndoe]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 11:46am

bwayphreak234 said: "It's a personal decision that each person has to make on their own whether or not to support it. People have different moral standards, priorities, and opinions. I don't think arguing is going to sway anyone on either side of the issue."

Perhaps not, but people here are lambasting the very suggestion that financial support for the show could be ethically compromised – because everyone has the “right” to spend their money that way. Which is obvious. People have the legal right to do tons of unethical things.

If not by evaluating their actions, how else are we supposed to make determinations about how we feel about others? You can disagree about the efficacy, but I think it’s pretty reasonable to make judgments about people based on their actions.

And as someone said earlier, many things can be ethically compromised, but Cursed Child is the subject of this thread.

Updated On: 9/16/23 at 11:46 AM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 12:37pm

"No.

My concerns are legitimate and I'm not going to be shushed.

Have a nice day, Zeppie."

Maybe, you need a reading comprehension class. I did not try to shush you one bit. I said maybe if you mixed it up a bit with your posts you might not come across as obnoxious. I did not tell you not to post one of your "issue" posts. You were the one that asked the question why people were being obnoxious to you, and I gave you an answer which you did not like. Hard to look into the mirror Jay. Final thought for you Jay, you can "voice" all of your concerns on an entertainment board all you want, and it will not matter one bit. Beyonce and JK Rowlings will still be two incredibly wealthy people and can withstand any criticism they receive from their actions or words. Have a great day Jay

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 2:29pm

The thing about this, Zeppie, is the hypocritical nature of the OP and this thread. All they do is bitch on a message board from their smartphone from China (which he admitted to have, whoops!). They are not out actively protesting outside this theater, they are not actively protesting outside a Beyonce concert demanding people STOP supporting her, they are not actively at airports screaming at people to STOP flying due to carbon emissions, nor is he outside people's homes screaming at them to STOP having children. You know, all the things he demanded people to stop doing on the off topic board?

Like all keyboard warriors, the only thing he does is bitch. No action is ever followed. It's pathetic and pretending he did nothing wrong is why so many have an issue with this thread. 

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 3:09pm

Sutton Ross said: "They are not out actively protesting outside this theater, they are not actively protesting outside a Beyonce concert demanding people STOP supporting her, they are not actively at airports screaming at people to STOP flying due to carbon emissions, nor is he outside people's homes screaming at them to STOP having children. You know, all the things he demanded people to stop doing on the off topic board?."

So… they get chastised earlier in the thread for “telling people what to do” and then… also criticized for not going out and telling people what to do? This circular logic amounts to what verywellthensigh said earlier about why bother standing for anything. 
 

There’s something interesting about the way people respond when you ask them to grapple with something potentially harmful. They cry about “cancellation” or shutting down the conversation when they’re just… doing the same thing from the other side.  

[Kad]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 3:23pm

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 3:35pm

Readers, please note that Sutton Ross has zero knowledge of how I spend my time offline. Zilch.

[BenjaminNicholas2]

Posted: 9/16/23 at 4:05pm

Oh look, someone else virtue signaling.

Color me bored.