Diversity on Broadway- Page 2

[hork]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 1:45pm

I got my statistics from going to the web sites for every production and counting the number of non-whites versus whites. And I was mostly just going by the pictures, so I may have missed some who look white in their photo but aren't.

 

"I also would like to say that there is no "overcompensating" when it comes to diversity"

 

Oh? Why not? If you have two actors auditioning for a white or racially neutral role, and one is white and a great actor and singer, and the other is black and merely an adequate actor and singer, and you cast the black actor just for the sake of diversity, that is overcompensating.

[Showface]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 1:51pm

hork said: "I got my statistics from going to the web sites for every production and counting the number of non-whites versus whites. And I was mostly just going by the pictures, so I may have missed some who look white in their photo but aren't.

 

 

 

"I also would like to say that there is no "overcompensating" when it comes to diversity"

 

 

 

Oh? Why not? If you have two actors auditioning for a white or racially neutral role, and one is white and a great actor and singer, and the other is black and merely an adequate actor and singer, and you cast the black actor just for the sake of diversity, that is overcompensating.

 

"

 

Which is a totally non-efficient way of taking diversity into consideration. On top of this, we're also talking about non-racial diversity: we've mentioned story-lines people of different backgrounds can relate to, as well.

 

 

 

"and one is white and a great actor and singer, and the other is black and merely an adequate actor and singer, and you cast the black actor just for the sake of diversity, that is overcompensating."

 

Believe me, this argument is brought up every single time people call for diversity, and honestly, it's getting tiring. OF COURSE they are going to cast based on talent, but you can not tell me that the majority of talented people are white. It almost seems that every time people bring up diversity, someone is always offended by the prospect of equal opportunity.

Updated On: 10/10/15 at 01:51 PM

[hork]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 2:27pm

Showface said: Which is a totally non-efficient way of taking diversity into consideration.

 

How so? Short of interviewing every single actor and asking for a complete family tree, I don't see how it could be more efficient.

 

On top of this, we're also talking about non-racial diversity: we've mentioned story-lines people of different backgrounds can relate to, as well.

 

Different from what? There aren't two shows on Broadway that feature characters of identical backgrounds. And anyway, I relate to characters because of how they think and feel, not because of where they grew up or under what circumstances.

 

 

Believe me, this argument is brought up every single time people call for diversity, and honestly, it's getting tiring. OF COURSE they are going to cast based on talent, but you can not tell me that the majority of talented people are white. It almost seems that every time people bring up diversity, someone is always offended by the prospect of equal opportunity.

 

I'm not making an argument against diversity, I'm just giving you an example of how overcompensating for diversity could be possible, since you seemed to think otherwise. But you're right, the majority of talented people are not white. However, the majority of talented Americans are white. Because the majority of Americans are white.

 

[The Glenbuck Laird]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 2:37pm

At least the leading white actor of his age no longer blacks up for Othello, that's progress

[Showface]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 2:41pm

"How so? Short of interviewing every single actor and asking for a complete family tree, I don't see how it could be more efficient."

 

Because you are one person counting off the appearances of numerous different actors/ensemble members.

 

 

" And anyway, I relate to characters because of how they think and feel, not because of where they grew up or under what circumstances."

 

I mean, I do to, but do you think that maybe the reason you feel the way you do about diversity onstage is because it doesn't really affect you, because maybe you are already well-represented?

 

 

"However, the majority of talented Americans are white. Because the majority of Americans are white."

 

Well, since we're talking about "Broadway", we should probably take into consideration where "Broadway" is located. It's located in one of the most diverse places in America. New York City is most assuredly not so overwhelmingly white.

 

 

Yes, this season is wonderfully diverse, but this is just one season. Shows will close, new shows will open, and so on and so on--will it continue to stay this wonderfully diverse? One can hope. And no, we are not overcompensating right now, like you seem to think that we've done (and yes, you did say: "If anything, we've over-compensated."..)

 

 

Furthermore, this is more than just an issue of casting--this is about creative teams, and even diversity in regards to who is in the audience.

 

 

Updated On: 10/10/15 at 02:41 PM

[hork]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 3:12pm

Showface said:

Because you are one person counting off the appearances of numerous different actors/ensemble members.

 

But I'm really good at counting. And, again, I only counted people who were obviously not white. Even if I miscounted a little, who cares? If it were 30% non-white, that would still be good, and it's definitely more than that.

 

 

I mean, I do to, but do you think that maybe the reason you feel the way you do about diversity onstage is because it doesn't really affect you, because maybe you are already well-represented?

 

No. I've never seen a Broadway show about a gay white atheist socialist male from the suburbs of Southern California.

 

 

Well, since we're talking about "Broadway", we should probably take into consideration where "Broadway" is located. It's located in one of the most diverse places in America. New York City is most assuredly not so overwhelmingly white.

 

That's a fair point. But I also don't think the pool of performing talent in New York is representative of the city as a whole. But I could be wrong.

 

 

 

Yes, this season is wonderfully diverse, but this is just one season. Shows will close, new shows will open, and so on and so on--will it continue to stay this wonderfully diverse? One can hope. And no, we are not overcompensating right now, like you seem to think that we've done (and yes, you did say: "If anything, we've over-compensated."..)

 

"If anything" in the sense that given the two extremes (viz. overcompensating and having a long way to go), overcompensating is closer to the truth. Not saying it is the truth.

 

As for the audience, what can you do? You can't make non-white people go to the theater, if they don't want to. Why is that even important or relevant?

 

 

 

 

 

"

 

[Showface]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 3:16pm

"No. I've never seen a Broadway show about a gay white atheist socialist male from the suburbs of Southern California."

 

But you most certainly have, or certainly could see several shows about a white male, which is what I was trying to get at.

 

 

 

"As for the audience, what can you do? You can't make non-white people go to the theater, if they don't want to. Why is that even important or relevant?"

 

It's not even just a race issue with the audience, it's also an age issue. There are many different factors, but in the end, they all seem to connect to ticket prices.

And as another person said, audiences do seem to diversify, when a show is diversified. 

Updated On: 10/10/15 at 03:16 PM

[hork]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 4:39pm

Showface said:

But you most certainly have, or certainly could see several shows about a white male, which is what I was trying to get at.

 

True, but I don't pick which shows I see based on how well I'm racially "represented." If my only options were The Color Purple, Shuffle Along, On Your Feet, Allegiance, The Gin Game, Hamilton, The Lion King, or Finding Neverland, FN would be my last choice, and I don't think that has anything to do with any kind of feelings about being satisfyingly represented by Broadway's historic "whiteness." If I lived in Japan, I wouldn't think, "I wish they'd cast a white person in this production that takes place in Japan and is about Japanese people," even if there were a large white population in Japan. Of course, I have no idea what it's like to be part of an underrepresented people, so who can say how I'd feel?

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 5:23pm

newintown said: "Jose Llana played the major role of Chip Tolentino in The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, a character who is never explicitly identified as Asian.

 

"

Technically, Tolentino is a Filipino last name. Also, when he doubles as Jesus, they mention his ethnicity.

We need more instances like Norm Lewis as the Phantom, Audra McDonald as Lizzie and Carrie, Lea Salonga as Eponine and Fantine, Keke Palmer as Cinderella, etc. Wouldn't it be awesome if there were more examples of nonwhite non-stars being cast in principal roles? If you think we've done enough, you don't understand how insulting it can be to have one black person and one Asian person in the ensemble just to fill the color quota. Why must we have to wait for shows like Miss Saigon or Shuffle Along or In the Heights to be seen? 

Have you taken a look at casting notices that have to (by Equity rules) say that all ethnicities are strongly encouraged to attend and then peruse the breakdown to find it says "Caucasian" next to each principal character? And for what reason do the characters have to be white?

Pearl Sun being the standby for Alice Ripley in Next to Normal. You didn't question Diana's ethnicity once in the show. We need more of this.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 5:36pm

You don't need to do a lot of "picking" shows based on your racial background because the default racial assumption in this country is white. White people have and will continue to have an extremely diverse set of media representing them, while other races take supporting roles or become niche markets (i.e. Tyler Perry films, for which African American audiences turn out in droves). 

Representation in media matters for people in miniority groups- be it race, gender, sexuality, body type, disability. Hell, it took the Emmys until this year- their 67th ceremony-  to award an woman of color Best Actress in a Drama Series. 

Posted: 10/10/15 at 7:09pm

yeah but that wasnt the emmy's fault

[Showface]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 7:57pm

SexyBroadway said: "yeah but that wasnt the emmy's fault

 

"

Correction: It was both the industry AND the Emmys' fault

Posted: 10/10/15 at 8:00pm

I love diversity and encourage directors to cast people of color in my shows.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 9:11pm

hork said: "However, the majority of talented Americans are white. Because the majority of Americans are white."

And the majority of American media has been about white people. For years. Decades. Centuries, even. White people aren't really in a position to cry about under-representation here.

[mistermanifesto]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 9:33pm

The whole thing about encouraging diversity is not just for the sake of diversity or fulfilling a racial quota. It's about changing the mentality of casting and directors to see people of color as more than just stereotypes. Making it on Broadway is already hard enough, but if you are non-white, it makes it so much harder when the only roles that you will be taken seriously will be shows like Rent and In the Heights. It's not about translating affirmative action to the stage and giving the role to someone who is significantly less talented just because of the sheer fact that they are brown, yellow, etc. Believe it or not, there are MANY talented actors of color but we just lack the opporunity (which Viola Davis perfectly addressed.) What we are limited to are the stereotypical ensemble roles of the gardeners, maids, foreign dancers, etc. And they do exist and they have maybe 3 lines in plenty of musicals Ghost, 9 to 5, Saturday Night Fever, etc. It's reimagining theatre with everyday things like interracial couples. What's even more frustrating is when talented actors of color can't even be cast in roles of their own race. Where is the authenticity? If it weren't that push for diversity, we wouldn't have seen any spectacular performances (did I mention authentic?) of The King and I by talented people like Jose Llana, Hoon Lee, (Ken was good but his singing voice isn't the best but his acting made up for it).

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 9:54pm

hork said: "Why does an actor's race even matter? All I care is if he/she can act (and sing and dance if it's a musical) and is appropriate for the role. I don't really see the point of having a non-white person play Christine Daae just for the sake of having a non-white person playing Christine Daae."

I didn't say that a non-white Christine should be hired just for the hell of it. I was saying that a non-white actress should actually be given the chance to play the role if she has the talents for it and not just be turned away because she doesn't fit the standard "caucasian" image of the typical Christine.

Updated On: 10/11/15 at 09:54 PM

[Showface]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 9:57pm

I also think that there needs to be diversity in storyline for POC. There's no need for (almost)every story with black characters to be about racism or poverty.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 10:07pm

So much further to go but a long, proud tradition.  In the 1940s who would have expected a performer of Japanese descent to have played an American woman In a musical about sailors on leave from a war with Japan? 

Sono Osato as Ivy in the OBC of ON THE TOWN (1944).

[haterobics]

Posted: 10/10/15 at 10:09pm

Showface said: "There's no need for (almost)every story with black characters to be about racism or poverty."

 

If you remove those, all you're left with is slavery, though?!

[rcwr]

Posted: 10/11/15 at 1:04am

Has there ever been a nonwhite Cosette on Bway or in the West End?

[hork]

Posted: 10/11/15 at 1:58am

Charley Kringas Inc said:

And the majority of American media has been about white people. For years. Decades. Centuries, even. White people aren't really in a position to cry about under-representation here.

 

Who's crying about the under-representation of white people?

 

[A Director]

Posted: 10/11/15 at 2:02am

So much further to go but a long, proud tradition.  In the 1940s who would have expected a performer of Japanese descent to have played an American woman In a musical about sailors on leave from a war with Japan? 

Sono Osato as Ivy in the OBC of ON THE TOWN (1944

henrikegerman - Wow!  ON THE TOWN is 71 years old.  What has happened on Broadway from 1944 to 2015?  What long, proud tradition?  Broadway has taken five steps forward and in my book there is sooooooooooooooooooooo much further to gooooooooooooooooooo!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 10/11/15 at 4:56am

rcwr said: "Has there ever been a nonwhite Cosette on Bway or in the West End?

 

"

Yes. In the 2006 revival of Les Miz, Cosette was played by Ali Ewoldt. Her Marius was Adam Jacobs. Lea Salonga was Fantine during the run. Three Filipino principals at once in Les Miz! (I believe one of the Young Cosettes was also Asian.)

[RaiseYouUp]

Posted: 10/11/15 at 9:41am

I'm still waiting for there to be a black Glinda. That hasn't ever happened in any production of Wicked as far as I know. 

[Showface]

Posted: 10/11/15 at 11:06am

RaiseYouUp said: "I'm still waiting for there to be a black Glinda. That hasn't ever happened in any production of Wicked as far as I know. 

 

"

And you know what? This could have happened...I feel like they haven't had one due to the writing...aren't there some lines/lyrics that make it clear she is a white, blonde girl??? If that's the case, then that's the prime example of why we need writing that can be inclusive of all different people.