Diversity on Broadway- Page 4

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:20am

Sure, except in Allegiance, Amazing Grace, Mormon, King and I, Shuffle Along, and On Your Feet- so roughly half the shows you listed- the actors of color in those shows are playing roles specifically tied to their race and/or racial oppression. Obviously those are stories that need to be told, but it shows that actors of color have far less opportunity to tell stories that are not intrinsically tied to their race. That's a privilege that white actors have at a much greater frequency, and it's still a problem. 

Updated On: 10/13/15 at 12:20 AM

[c0113g3b0y]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:21am

wonderfulwizard11 said: "Sure, except in Allegiance, Amazing Grace, Mormon, King and I and On Your Feet- so roughly half the shows you listed- the actors of color in those shows are playing roles specifically tied to their race and/or racial oppression. Obviously those are stories that need to be told, but it shows that actors of color have far less opportunity to tell stories that are not intrinsically tied to their race. That's a privilege that white actors have at a much greater frequency, and it's still a problem. 

EXACTLY.

"

 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:52am

Totally. I get that. And I long for the day when an obese person can play a character and it's not tied to the fact that they're obese, etc. But, for whatever reason, we're telling the stories we are telling. I think it can be argued both ways. I mean, those are great stories, so they're being told. Something like Gentlemen's Guide could have absolutely had a more diverse cast. It's an original musical, etc. But, for whatever reason, they cast as they cast. 

"what is so wrong with purposefully giving a minority actor a part? Statically, the white actor has cosiderably more chances to get cast in leading roles, so it's a good thing to purposefully provide those opportunities." 

But you're basically saying "you're the best fit, but we're gonna go with this person" which, I think, is stupid? I'm saying forget race. Forget it all. And go with who will give the best performance. 

I saw Phylicia Rashad in August: Osage County and thought she was incredible. It didn't bother me one bit that she was black and her kids were white. But, the two black people next to me kept fussing that none of it made any sense. I'm just saying, people will accept what they want to accept. 

I just hate double standards of anything! So, what if Gavin Creel played Aladdin? I bet he'd be awesome, but I bet everyone would CRY for days that he isn't of the right ethic group. Which makes no sense because Adam Jacobs isn't technically either. I

[hork]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 1:04am

leefowler said: 
Well, except for Aladdin, Allegiance, Amazing Grace, The Book Of Mormon, Hamilton, The King And I, Kinky Boots, The Lion King, and On Your Feet. Oh, and Shuffle along which is opening soon.

 

And The Color Purple. And The Gin Game. And Chicago recently had one, as did Les Miserables.

 

You folks are getting crazy here. I'm sorry, but I don't have sympathy for someone who can't get a lead role in a Broadway show because they're not white. I just don't. I hate the term "first world problem," but that is such a first world problem. Actors get turned down for all kinds of reasons. They're always either too short, too tall, too fat, too skinny, too old, too young. Nobody has a problem with that, but "too dark," that's outrageous! When are we going to have a fat Glinda? Never. Because that's not the character. I'm sorry if you're not a pretty, young, thin, white woman and don't get to play Glinda on Broadway, but that's just tough sh!t. It's the nature of the business.

 

What's wrong with purposefully giving a minority actor a part? It violates artistic integrity, that's what. You go with the top talent, period. Directors aren't there to do anyone any favors, or to offer opportunities. This isn't a college application, this is an audition for a piece of art. A very expensive piece of art. You want the best, because anything less than the best is bullsh!t. You also have to go with who is the best suited for the part. The writer and director have a vision, and if that vision is a white person in the role, so be it. When 80% of Broadway audiences are white (or whatever the statistic was that was posted in another thread), naturally 80% of Broadway writers and directors are going to be white, because nobody gets into the business unless they're a fan first. And writers write what they know, so they're most likely going to write about white people. If you think there should be more shows about non-white people, then write one yourself. But nobody is under any obligation to create more shows for minorities just to give minority actors more roles to play. Nobody owes you anything.

 

I have an Asian friend who's an actor. He's a member of Equity and makes a good living doing theater in L.A., and occasionally small TV guest spots. He drives a Mercedes. Am I supposed to feel sorry for him because he's not receiving oodles of money and fame on Broadway? Please. It's tough for everyone out there. I'm having trouble just finding any kind of a job at all. So forgive me if I don't feel sorry for anyone struggling to be a star on Broadway.

Updated On: 10/13/15 at 01:04 AM

[rcwr]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 1:06am

But you're basically saying "you're the best fit, but we're gonna go with this person" which, I think, is stupid?

 

But you're working from a model where there is one single actor who will be the best in that role. Often there are several actors who could be fantastic. Casting people do the best they can but there is no objective single best individual. Nobody here is arguing that an actor of color should be cast instead of a white actor who would have been "best." That scenario is a straw man that you're setting up. 

 

I'm saying forget race. Forget it all.

 

Forgetting race, when we live in a racist culture, simply reinscribes a white dominance and a white default. 

 

And I long for the day when an obese person can play a character and it's not tied to the fact that they're obese

 

Just FYI, if you're really longing for that, stop using the word obese. It's a medical term that carries the assertion there's something terribly wrong with being fat. 

Updated On: 10/13/15 at 01:06 AM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 1:07am

We're "telling the stories we are telling" because by and large the people in power in every facet of the entertainment industry are white people. And the stories that are getting told won't change unless actors, writers, directors actually get the opportunity to tell those different stories. That's why it's nothing more than a nice fantasy to want to forget race. You can want race to not matter all you want, and it's not that that isn't noble, but doing so ignores the fact that it isn't possible to ignore race in this country. Ignoring race means ignoring the absurd lack of opportunity faced by minority actors. And your Gavin Creel/Adam Jacobs example exemplifies this. Both men are talented guys, but Creel has originated several leading roles in musicals and has two Tony nods under his belt. In contrast, playing Aladdin has been Jacobs' most noticeable role to date, precisely because Disney was aware that it was an opportunity that needed to go to an actor of color. People would be upset over Creel playing the role (which, let's be honest, is a ridiculous notion and you know it) because he already has a million other opportunities as a white man! Adam Jacobs, as an actor of color, has less of those opportunities. That's why people would be upset- there are already so few roles available to non-white people because white is the automatic default in this country. Why are you trying to take more away from actors of color instead making the playing field even a little bit more level? 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 1:16am

What opportunities am I taking away? All I'm saying is that by giving a person a job solely based on their race is just crazy! That's all. I'm not saying Creel SHOULD have been Aladdin. It's just a dumb example. 

I totally get what you're saying, and I have no power over producing new material that would allow for a mix race case that doesn't involve race, but honestly, I don't see any new work being produced that is that way? Shuffle Along has to have the cast it has for that story. King Henry has to have the cast it has for that story. Allegiance has to have the cast it has for that story. When those opportunities arise I think casting allows it like Godspell, Lez Mis, Wicked, etc. There are certain shows that just won't allow for diversity like The Last Ship or Porgy and Bess, and that's okay because of the story they're trying to tell. 

I just think it should be congratulated that it's even worth debate. Broadway/Theatre is very diverse. I'm not saying the fight is over, but don't make it a bigger deal than it is. Because it isn't. 

[Jayar2]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 1:32am

A few pages back someone mentioned that Broadway audiences are 90% white. Okay. So what?  I would offer that audiences for other art forms-- a rap or hip hop concert would skew black.  Are there discussions about how we should get more diversity at rap concerts?  No. People like what people like. That doesn't mean compromising the art to cater to a specific audience. I don't have a problem with diversity casting when it makes sense. I do have an issue with diversity casting when it's not plausible. Jean Val Jean should be white. Porgy and Bess should be black. Cho Cho San should be Japanese.  And George Washington should be white. Enough. If people want more diverse casts, then start writing shows that all for that. I'm not averse to seeing all colors of the rainbow on stage-- in fact, I encourage it. But enough with the diversity casting. For me, Hamilton went too far. It's like doing The Color Purple with Native American actors. It just does not make sense.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 1:50am

"I totally get what you're saying, and I have no power over producing new material that would allow for a mix race case that doesn't involve race, but honestly, I don't see any new work being produced that is that way?"

But why do you think you aren't seeing that work? Do you think it's because people aren't writing it, or that it isn't being produced. That's the point about purposefully providing opportunities- the work and talent is there, but no one will know that if someone doesn't help to make it happen. 

 

Exactly how does seeking to cast a show with a diverse company compromise the art form? You are aware that Jean Valjean was not a real person, yes? As as far as plausibility, we're talking about the story of a convict who somehow becomes rich and powerful despite the fact that a man has made it his only priority to catch him. When in theatre did plausibility ever stop anyone from doing anything? For that matter, none of the Founding Fathers knew how to rap ( or even burst into song 1776 style), but what bothers you most is that George Washington's skin is (purposefully) a different color? 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 3:38am

O man, the blatant racism on this thread is astounding. 

 

Nowhere in Wicked does it say Glinda is white. She is blonde, so put the nonwhite actress in a blonde wig, which is what they do for every single actor who has played that role. Glinda's appearance is nothing like what Glinda looks like in The Wizard of Oz because of copyright issues. Has no one noticed she doesn't wear the poofy pink dress or the tall crown? And they live in Oz, for goodness' sake, which is a fictional place. They say words like "congratulotions" and live among munchkins and winkies. O and yes, a girl who is green. (A tangent, but there should totally be more women of color playing Elphaba because they will cover her natural skin color anyway.)

 

The thing is, why do actors of color have to wait for roles that specifically label them as someone of color? Why do Asian actors have to wait for Allegiance to have a contemporary musical theatre show they can partake in? Why don't modern musicals, where race doesn't matter at all, feature more actors of color as THE lead? Why couldn't LaChanze play Elizabeth in If/Then for example (although that show did have plenty of diversity on that stage, but what if, to mirror the show)?

 

Someone mentioned the example of a role coming down to a white actress and an Asian actress. When have we ever seen it happen on Broadway that it went to the Asian actress? Very, very few times.

 

To the one person who is actually mad about Hamilton using people of color in mostly every role. Here's a reality check: That is how we actors of color feel about pretty much every single show on Broadway that isn't about race. Hamilton isn't about race. It isn't about telling a historical story with period music or conventional conceits. Lin-Manuel Miranda and the entire creative and casting team have to be commended. It is the first and only casting breakdown where I've seen "non-Caucasian" next to every principal (except the King). Because the show is NOT about race and therefore why not give extremely talented, underutilized actors a chance to tell a story that anyone in America can relate to? And the casting highlights the fact that our founding fathers were not of this country. It's very purposefully done.

 

It's about giving people the opportunity, the outlet, the representation, the vessel to experience a story through someone they can relate to. It can't happen just from the outside with writers creating shows specifically for Asian, Latino, and black actors. It has to also change from the inside with the creatives, casting, producers. We learned long ago that Les Misérables is not a show that relies on skin color. People are drawn to the music and the story. This revival's Tony-nominated star is Iranian, so I don't know where the argument of "Jean Valjean needs to be white" comes from. The story is powerful enough and the audience doesn't register race. Chicago has embraced this. Disney and the Rodgers and Hammerstein estate have also: we've seen a black Belle and black Cinderella on Broadway. 

 

While there are many shows that highlight different ethnicities this season, it's not enough. Diversity needs to happen in shows that are cast white by default, out of laziness. Why isn't one principal character in Something Rotten an actor of color? If you have already established the existence of black people in your show with the one black man and one black woman in the ensemble, there is absolutely no excuse for the principal characters to be white by default. Were actors of color considered for lead roles? I don't know. But it's awfully suspicious to have token black ensemble members. It's not enough anymore. While I loved this production of Spring Awakening, could they really only find one black cast member? Could none of the deaf character's voices be played by actors of color or were they basing their casting on social media popularity?

 

It's really not enough anymore. I do say this as an Asian-American audience member and member of Actors' Equity. "That's show biz"-like responses perpetuate the problem and don't help to change it. Like with any minority struggle, we need an alliance with the majority to make it right. 

 

I'll end it here: No one questioned why Misty Copeland would be the object of affection by a US sailor in NYC in 1941. Everyone on that stage and in that theatre would have fallen for her.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 4:20am

While I appreciate most of the opinions on this thread, what I'd love to see is more so-called color blind casting.  Yes, many plays were originally cast with white actors but why couldn't a POC play, say, Laura in The Glass Menagerie as James Earl Jones played Grandpa in You Can't Take It With You?  If race is not a plot point, there's no reason not to cast the best actors who comes in.  Obviously you can't cast a black kid as Huck Finn, or a white actor as Coalhouse Walker, but most plays would lend themselves to color blind casting.  POC shouldn't have to wait around for shows about their ethnic experience when their life experience is plenty, like any actor.

[Showface]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 6:15am

There is no double standard.

There is no double standard.

 

 

"You folks are getting crazy here. I'm sorry, but I don't have sympathy for someone who can't get a lead role in a Broadway show because they're not white. I just don't."

The only crazy people here are the ones making statements like these. 

 

 

"What's wrong with purposefully giving a minority actor a part? It violates artistic integrity, that's what. "

 

If the actor is talented, and though you may not see it , the talent range of minority actors are just as high as white actors! *Gasp*.Did you know that??? Did you know it's possible to me not white and still....

talented?!?!??!?!?! 

So, no. No artistic integrity violated.

Updated On: 10/13/15 at 06:15 AM

[Showface]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 6:33am

" And writers write what they know, so they're most likely going to write about white people."

 

So...they're going to write about the white experience? White culture? Do tell me...what exactly is that?

Just make race less characters and have a diverse cast! 

It's not rocket science.

Updated On: 10/13/15 at 06:33 AM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 8:46am

Wilmingtom said: " POC shouldn't have to wait around for shows about their ethnic experience when their life experience is plenty, like any actor."

 

^^^^^^^^

 

Also, please read this, everyone. http://brettryback.com/2015/08/03/race-and-the-new-generation-of-musical-theatre-writers/

Updated On: 10/13/15 at 08:46 AM

[perfectlymarvelous]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 9:30am

"But as a white male, it does get frustrating."

Well, this really says it all, doesn't it? 

[Kad]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 9:48am

As someone who IS a writer, let me tell you: it is stupidly easy to write diverse roles. "Write what you know" doesn't mean "write your autobiography."

[dramamama611]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 10:18am

I don't know if the poster MEANT that white people are the more talented ones, but rather going on the (false) belief that the best person for the part always gets the part.  Most of realize that's not so in many, many cases.   And if then there's the thought if they aren't OFFICIALLY looking to cast blindly, do POC even get consideration IN the casting room?  Likely not.

 

I have no minorities in my program at school (we barely have 1% of students being POC in the entire student body)  and I will sometimes lament all the shows I cannot produce.  On the other hand, I do wonder how many shows with black characters I would choose....as it seems a bit demeaning think of my students by their race.  Example: seeing a high school production of You Can't Take it With You was incredibly uncomfortable seeing the only two POC in the show be delegated to the "servant" role.  Was there any way they would have been considered for the leading roles?  Were they "recruited" to play the roles?  (I don't really know.)   I think I would find it difficult to maneuver this personally.  Note: when I have had POC TO cast, I've always done so with no regard.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 10:36am

Kad said: "As someone who IS a writer, let me tell you: it is stupidly easy to write diverse roles. "Write what you know" doesn't mean "write your autobiography.""

 

And it isn't like what you know is fixed. Although some people never bother to expand their knowledge.

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 11:47am

"And writers write what they know, so they're most likely going to write about white people."

DREAMGIRLS was written, directed, and choreographed by white men. THE WIZ has a book written by a white man. RAGTIME - written and directed by white people. HAIRSPRAY - written and directed by white people. THE LION KING - written and directed by white people. Now please explain how it's so hard for white people to write shows about non-white people.

[haterobics]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 11:50am

seaweedjstubbs said: "DREAMGIRLS was written, directed, and choreographed by white men. THE WIZ has a book written by a white man. RAGTIME - written and directed by white people. HAIRSPRAY - written and directed by white people. THE LION KING - written and directed by white people. Now please explain how it's so hard for white people to write shows about non-white people."

 

Sounds like we're all fine with all the writers being white at least?

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:03pm

^Hahaha, now that's another subject entirely! Diversity may be shining through onstage this season, but it's still an overwhelmingly white, male world behind the scenes!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:18pm

Here's an honest (and uncomfortable for some) take on this issue from a black actor/writer:

http://www.thelivingmichaeljackson.com/diversity-in-musical-theater/

 

And here's a link to highlights of last week's NAAP benefit gala, which featured songs and scenes where Asian actors played roles not written specifically for Asians. It was a thrilling evening and my goodness, Asians can sing Rodgers & Hammerstein that's not King and I and Flower Drum Song. There is TALENT within the Asian theatre community that is untapped and underused. 

http://m.playbill.com/news/article/asian-artists-perform-scenes-from-les-miz-to-dreamgirls-and-carousel-for-thrilling-naap-extravaganza-366670

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:22pm

I've attended a few 2g productions (including a reading of Galois, starring Conrad Ricamora pre-The King and I/How to Get Away With Murder), and this is so, SO true.

Check 'em out. http://www.2g.org/

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:46pm

And I long for the day when an obese person can play a character and it's not tied to the fact that they're obese, etc. 

FFS

[haterobics]

Posted: 10/13/15 at 12:53pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Asians can sing Rodgers & Hammerstein that's not King and I and Flower Drum Song. There is TALENT within the Asian theatre community that is untapped and underused."

 

This sounds like propaganda.