Does Into the woods Jr do justice to the original?
Does Into the woods Jr do justice to the original?
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#1Does Into the woods Jr do justice to the original?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:23pm
The Broadway Junior version is only ACT 1. Why would Sondheim sign off on this show if the kids are missing out on the whole point of ITW?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of Into the woods basically shown in ACT 2? I have always thought of into the woods as the ANTI fairy tale and how there is always a story after happily ever after and that life doesn't just end in a pretty bow tie and how there are consequences for your actions and how there never is a guide through life you just have to survive the best way you can by teaching your children as best as you can.
"CHILDREN WILL LISTEN" is in the junior version and it really doesn't make any sense if you put it at the end of act 1. It makes sense a bit with regards to the witch I guess but it really doesn't have the effect it should have at the end of act one.
Here is what TIME's Interpretation of what the show is:
"basic insight ... is at heart, most fairy tales are about the loving yet embattled relationship between parents and children. Almost everything that goes wrong — which is to say, almost everything that can — arises from a failure of parental or filial duty, despite the best intentions."[78] Stephen Holden wrote that the themes of the show include parent-child relationships and the individual's responsibility to the community. The witch isn't just a scowling old hag, but a key symbol of moral ambivalence. James Lapine said that the most unpleasant person (the Witch) would have the truest things to say and the "nicer" people would be less honest.[79] In the Witch's words: "I'm not good; I'm not nice; I'm just right."
And Most of that Happens in ACT 1. The Mother daughter relationship between Rapunzel and WITCH is really only just beginning in act 2 and THEN you see how the witch unravels in act 2.
Here is a professional opinion of what i am trying to say:
"The temptation exists to forget about these sobering themes in the pursuit of light-hearted entertainment, but these are lessons that cannot be easily dismissed, and they provide the backbone of this piece. At its core, Into the Woods is not so much about fantasy as it is about reality."
No one is going to understand that if you close it up at part one.
Another: "A vast majority of the characters in the play are definitely not what they seem, despite our instinct or desire to neatly categorize them. Who are the good guys? The Baker prepares to leave his son out of his own self-pity and insecurity, Little Red Riding Hood kills the wolf and makes a spectacle out of wearing his skin, Jack kills the giant stealing a golden harp that neither him nor his mother particularly need, the Baker's Wife commits adultery, etc. etc."
You are completely missing out on the richness and reality of these characters without act 2.
There are so many things to connect the dots in for
act 2.
-The similarities of the wolf and the prince and why they are usually played by the same actor.
-The Parallel between red riding hoof and bakers wife.
- The irony of The baker and baker's wife
-The fact that witch isnt good or evil she is just the person who is most honest.
-The Biased view of others
- The fulfillment of a wish and its consequences
I could go on for hours but i wont.
This junior version is an interesting case cause its the only one in the collection that stops before act 2. At the same time, i dont think middle scoolers should do act 2 because its not appropriate. Into the woods is anything BUT a children's musical and I just can't help but think they are getting the wrong message of the show if the are only exposed to the Happy ever after at the end of act 1. The kids will think " This is a story about princes and princesses and everyone getting what they want in the end accept for the evil witch yay" But thats exactly what it ISN'T about!
I just feel like you are sacrificing the piece to mediocrity if you only do Act 1. Act 1 is really only the beginning to the pathway of why INTO THE WOODS is such an amazing musical filled with depth and volume. Act 1 is really just setting the story up and waiting for it to crumble in act 2. All the characters get burned and their happily ever after crumbles into dust. The "I wish" that is so frequent in act 1 suddenly turns into "Crap" in act 2.
Of course you can say "They are just middle schools they dont care about that they just want to put on a show" and yes i get that but what's the point of doing a show if you barely even touch on the theme and why it is important and why you are doing it?
Updated On: 6/4/13 at 08:23 PM
#2Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:24pmYou're forgetting one thing: $$$$$$!
#2Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:45pmWhen I was still in middle school, the HS in my district did Into The Woods JR. It remains, to this day, one of my most miserable experiences at the theatre and it has really put me off from ever seeing another production of the show, full-length or not. It was only 1 act and it was pushing 3 hours in length. SO. BORING.
#3Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:45pm
Surely Sondheim makes enough money from revivals of WSS and GYPSY!
I don't know Sondheim and am not authorized to speak for him, but I agree with Broadway Guy's analysis of the full play.
I assume Sondheim figures it's better to give kids some exposure rather than none at all, and that in doing so he builds a future audience for the adult version of the show. I would do the same in his place.
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#4Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:46pmYeah i know. Money is important but shouldn't telling the story the way it should be told be more important? But then again maybe Sondheim had a method to his madness when agreeing to do the junior version. Who am i to say that he is doing his own show in the wrong way...I would love to here his thoughts on this
#5Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:48pmYeah, the answer is money. Second act of Into The Woods is hard too! I did lights for my school plays and the music director and I kept talking about how much we wanted to do Into The Woods. She kept bringing up that it was musically too difficult for most of the kids to sing being that we only really had one person who was dedicated to stage performances to the point of going down to the city on weekends auditioning for shows.
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#6Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:49pm
"When I was still in middle school, the HS in my district did Into The Woods JR. It remains, to this day, one of my most miserable experiences at the theatre and it has really put me off from ever seeing another production of the show, full-length or not. It was only 1 act and it was pushing 3 hours in length. SO. BORING."
You should really see the full show. Act 1 only makes sense when you see act 2. If you just see act 1 then you will see a suface whimsical fairy tale but thats not what ITW is at all, it goes much much deeper than that.
#7Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:52pmBroadway guy; Oh yes, I am very familiar with the score and the story and I do, in fact, enjoy them now. I wanted to see it last summer in the park but didn't get the chance. Some day!
#8Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:52pm(double post, sorry) Updated On: 6/3/13 at 08:52 PM
#9Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:53pm
I teach middle school English. I actually include Into the Woods - the whole thing - in my curriculum. The kids TOTALLY get the show - in fact, I would argue that it is EXTREMELY relevant to kids if taught properly.
The students wrote an essay for me after the play discussing the parent/children relationships throughout the show - specifically the baker and his father, Jack and his mother, and Rapunzel and the witch. The kids definitely understand the point of the show - I can say with absolute confidence none of them think of it as "just as a fairy tale."
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#10Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:53pm
There is no way that ANY 'junior' runs 3 hours. They typically run between 60 and 90 minutes at the most.
Maybe it just felt like 3 hours.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#11Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 8:59pmdramamama611; My best friend has the DVD of the production and I believe the approximate running time was around 2 hours and 45 minutes. They had stupidly elaborate scene changes and with such a low-budget production, some of the blackouts lasted close to four to five minutes each, with the pit playing the melody of 'Ever After' to break the silence. We were really not equipped to tackle it with such a tiny high school and relatively inexperienced director/group of kids. I remember people saying it was the worst production the school has ever put together.
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#12Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:02pm
"The kids TOTALLY get the show - in fact, I would argue that it is EXTREMELY relevant to kids if taught properly."
That is excellent to hear. One of the major themes of the show is kids and parenting so it warms my heart that kids really do understand the show for the most part. I feel like its a show that the kids can identify with and at the same time learn so much from. Some of the ideas presented in the show are very complicated and there are so many interpretations to it that even I still find tricky to completely understand ( for example the idea of incest between the witch and Rapunzel) But anyway, its awesome you are teaching the kids the full show.
#13Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:16pm
"Into the Woods" is Sondheim's most-produced show, by far. Way ahead of all the others, in fact.
He makes really good bank on it. I don't see any shame in that. I saw a high school production of it about three years ago. It was the entire musical (both acts), and it was a fine production.
So they don't all do the "Junior" version, nor do they have to. All Sondheim and Lapine have done is given schools a choice.
Oh ... and I'm laughing at the "Junior" one-act version mentioned above that was THREE HOURS LONG.
So they cut the show in half and managed to make it run longer than the full two-act play?
I love that.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
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#14Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:21pm
Maybe Sondheim and Lapine decided that if they had to cut for a Jr. version, it was better to just do Act I rather than cut both acts in half. Act I is a pretty tightly constructed farce; I think it could take quite a bit of work to cut it radically. Maybe there would only be two midnights?
Act II could use some cutting in all versions, again IMO. I've never seen an audience fail to fidget during the several ballads in a row that end the show.
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#15Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:24pm
"Act II could use some cutting in all versions, again IMO. I've never seen an audience fail to fidget during the several ballads in a row that end the show."
What would you cut? I can't think of anything i would want to cut in act 2. Each song is so important.
#16Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:28pm
I disagree, Gaveston- for me, Act II always clipped along, even during its ballad-heavy final third- which I never minded, as the show and characters had earned those ballads.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 6/3/13 at 09:28 PM
#17Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:39pmIf I remember reading correctly, the 'powers that be' at MTI and Broadway Jr. really wanted a Sondheim show in the Jr. catalog. Sondheim originally wanted Sweeney Todd to the be the show they cut down to 60 minute length. Once they came to terms they settled on Into the Woods. I love thinking of what Sweeney Todd Jr. would look like.
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#18Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:45pm
The other thing to remember with the MTI Jr. collection is that it is not really intended for high school programs. The focus in this was for middle school and younger.
http://www.broadwayjr.com/about.asp
These are different than some of the shows that have received "school editions" (such as Les Mis). MTI fully expects that a very large majority of high schools will choose, and, in most cases, be at least somewhat capable of doing the full scripts of the shows in their catalog.
#19Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:45pmAct 2 is all about AIDS.
broadway guy
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/5/11
#20Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:55pmWhy would a high school even choose do the Junior version?
#21Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:55pm
I worked for a theater that had a summer camp and they did Into the Woods Jr They also did Thoroughly Modern Millie Jr, Seussical Jr, Guys and Dolls Jr and HMS Pinafore Jr. The reason is more so because having children learn and perform a full length musical is near impossible.
These are kids shows. For kids and their parents.
I think Sondheim fans are a little too rabid and out of touch sometimes, as this thread has illustrated.
#22Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:55pm
"Act 2 is all about AIDS."
NOT according to Sondheim in LOOK I MADE A HAT. Nor is the giant the Soviet Union. Sorry, Jordan.
Updated On: 6/3/13 at 09:55 PM
#23Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:56pmIt's actually all about Sondheim's legendary sex dungeon.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#24Anyone find it odd that Sondheim would sign off on Into The Woods JUNIOR?
Posted: 6/3/13 at 9:58pm
Sorry, it IS all about AIDS. Sondheim told me so while he was putting a traffic cone in my ass down in his basement.
Updated On: 6/3/13 at 09:58 PM
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