"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX"- Page 13

[David10086]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 7:09pm

Robbie2 said: "EdEval said: "It really doesn't matter but just out of curiosity, was Gwen Verdon of the Jewish faith? Does anyone know? Thanks."



Not of the Jewish faith"

Maybe I'm imagining things, but in one episode didn't she say to someone she was Catholic? I could've sworn I remember that in one of the conversations - may have been the one covering her first marriage.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 11:21pm

David10086 said: "TotallyEffed said: "Couldn’t they have gotten a better actress for Joan? Her scenes are painful despite Michelle’s wonderful work."

I feel the same way. The actress is the weakest link in the cast so far. I'm just not connecting with her at all (even though it's a relatively minor role). They needed someone a little more dynamic."

With all due respect, Aya Cash is capturing the essence of who Joan Simon was.  Joan had a dry and deadpan personality and was always vocal and direct.  Even the ever-present bow in her hair is a character trait Nicole made sure to honor her with.  By saying Aya isn’t dynamic is saying Joan wasn’t.  

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 5/6/19 at 3:52pm

Aya Cash is a fantastic actress. IMO she should have won an Emmy for her performance in You're the Worst.

[BuddyStarr]

Posted: 5/6/19 at 4:33pm

I really enjoyed last week’s episode.  I know a number of you didn’t like the Pippin parallel story line but I thought it worked perfect.  Supposed the ending was changed in the rival to what Fosse originally wanted but didn’t get.  I loved the ending of the musical coinciding with Bob contemplating his death in a spectacular way like Pippin.  Michelle Williams is a dream to watch.  I never really appreciated her work until this.  I’m looking forward to the Chicago segment.   

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/6/19 at 4:54pm

I’m looking forward to the Chicago segment.

Next week’s episode 6 titled “All I Care About is Love” will cover CHICAGO, featuring a full recreation of Tony Walton’s original 2-level set.  We’ll see Michelle perform “Nowadays” alongside Bianca Marroquin as Chita Rivera.  The episode is directed by the fabulous Minkie Spiro.  

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 5/6/19 at 5:10pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "I’m looking forward to the Chicago segment.

Next week’s episode 6 titled “All I Care About is Love” will cover CHICAGO, featuring a full recreation of Tony Walton’s original 2-level set. We’ll see Michelle perform “Nowadays” alongside Bianca Marroquin as Chita Rivera. The episode is directed by the fabulous Minkie Spiro."

 

Cannot wait!

 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 5/6/19 at 7:13pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "I’m looking forward to the Chicago segment.

Next week’s episode 6 titled “All I Care About is Love” will cover CHICAGO, featuring a full recreation of Tony Walton’s original 2-level set. We’ll see Michelle perform “Nowadays” alongside Bianca Marroquin as Chita Rivera. The episode is directed by the fabulous Minkie Spiro."

My jaw just hit the floor. Can't wait!

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/6/19 at 11:53pm

To hold everyone over until next week's Episode 6: "All I Care About is Love", here are a few images of the CHICAGO portion of the episode.  

You're welcome.  







Here are the real Chita Rivera and Gwen Verdon: 

Updated On: 5/6/19 at 11:53 PM

[kofler22]

Posted: 5/7/19 at 1:49pm

Wowww those pictures are amazing!!!
The music released for today’s episode is strange. Two instrumental pieces. One called Pas de deux and a piano rendition of Where am I going...
I’m intrigued!!

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 1:06am

Tonight's episode (Where Am I Going) was simply the best by far. It worked very well dramatically I think primarily because the characters were confined inside by walls due to the dark rain storm. If felt a little bit like Virginia Wolf which was probably intentional. The story did not jump all over the place and it allowed the viewer to gain a more complex understanding of the characters and the text was fluid. I thought all of the actors delivered. Michelle was fantastic singing the song at the piano and the song itself spoke about all of the people in the room. I had to laugh at how her character was less than subtle about wanting to do Chicago. The inference that Fosse was more or less molested in his youth by two strippers shed some light on understanding his character. One question for Brody/Fosse. If Fosse was taking lithium was he bi polar? And just 2 random thoughts. I really liked the actress playing Annie and the fellow (Jake Lacy) who played Gwen's boyfriend has shown up in a lot of things these last couple of years most recently in Ramy on Hulu which I highly recommend. I wonder if his career will go the way of Chris Pratt's as in graduating to leading man status.

[bearhorn]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 7:11am

Wow!  Loved last night's episode, but really excited for Ep 6!

[BuddyStarr]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 9:36am

SmoothLover said: "...I had to laugh at how her character was less than subtle about wanting to do Chicago. The inference that Fosse was more or less molested in his youth by two strippers shed some light on understanding his character. ...."

I think it's one of the rarer moments so far where it show that Gwen was in it for herself, or at least at this point in her life had had enough and wanted some payback as she explain to Anne later on in the story.

The section about Fosse being molested was also eluded to in "All that Jazz" although in that case it was much more explicit visually. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 11:18am

One question for Brody/Fosse. If Fosse was taking lithium was he bi polar? 

No.  He was prescribed Lithium for his depression, which is something he battled with his entire life.  I'm sure this will be covered but Bob Fosse was epileptic and many dancers who've worked with him witnessed many of his seizures.  He believes a fall he had off a horse when he was young is the cause of that.  

For those interested, the actress playing Ann Reinking - Margaret Qualley, is the daughter of actress/supermodel Andie McDowell and model Paul Qualley and had an extensive background in ballet before focusing on an acting career.  

She made her professional debut at Bal des Debutantes in Paris, apprenticed at the American Ballet Theatre and at sixteen earned an apprenticeship at the North Carolina Dance Theater Company.  She was taught the legendary "Manson Trio" (from PIPPIN) seen in Episode 4 of FOSSE/VERDON by one of the original dancers of the number: Pam Sousa.  

Updated On: 5/8/19 at 11:18 AM

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 11:40am

BrodyFosse123 said: "She was taught the legendary "Manson Trio" (from PIPPIN) seen in Episode 4 of FOSSE/VERDONby one of the original dancers of the number: Pam Sousa."

I am continually amazed by the ability of these dancers to remember not only the routines but the finite details that made them what they were. And to do so 40 years later? Amazing! I can barely remember the choreography to a show I'm in the day after it closes!

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 12:24pm

Ourtime992 said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "She was taught the legendary "Manson Trio" (from PIPPIN) seen in Episode 4 of FOSSE/VERDONby one of the original dancers of the number: Pam Sousa."

I am continually amazed by the ability of these dancers to remember not only the routines but the finite details that made them what they were. And to do so 40 years later? Amazing! I can barely remember the choreography to a show I'm in the day after it closes!

Bob Fosse rehearsed everything endlessly, so anyone who worked with him still has recall of his choreography.  He wanted all of his choreography learned to death so you could execute it naturally  and without thinking.  He didn’t like seeing the technique or the choreography but the dancer doing the movement.  Today his natural style would be considered “marking” or “sloppy.”

He cast dancers based on personality rather than their abilities and technique.  If he cast you, he’d work around your limitations where needed.  That’s why he repeated using the same male and female dancers in his work as he knew them so he knew their personalities and strengths and how to create for them. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 1:33pm

Completely agree about last night's episode. Just stunning. The whole episode taking place in the house really exposed everyone's characters. We saw Gwen's desperation to get Chicago done. We saw Fosse's desperation to get back to work and become successful again with another movie. Patty trying to save both Bob & Gwen. And Gwen's song at the piano was heart wrenching. Makes me so much more eager for next week's episode about Chicago getting made.

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 3:26pm

I had read a review in The New Yorker that insinuated that the series was too politically correct which robbed the viewer emotionally. The series does make one reflect on American culture historically with regards to the treatment of women, mental illness, addiction and depression. We respond to all of those things much differently than we did in the 1960]s and 70's.

[bk]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 6:11pm

Stunning?  Brilliant?  Best episode so far?  I must be watching a different Fosse/Verdon.  It was insufferable, and entire hour of yakking with every character coming off obnoxiously.  Anyone who thinks this crap happened like this is living in a fool's paradise.  Stunning.  I can't even.  Perhaps if they're trying to make a really good Days of Our Lives episode - because that's what this is - soap opera.  And for all of you who think truth isn't important, that details aren't important, that because Nicole Fosse is a producer that that makes everything factual (as Bob and Gwen's close personal friend BrodyFosse keeps averring), I give you this - John Rubinstein was asked in a podcast on Broadway Stars his reaction to the Pippin episode.  Here is the pertinent excerpt from what he wrote them:

"I have at this point watched the Pippin episode. Lots of stuff wrong there . . . but I was one of the committed watchers of "Smash" when it was on. Lots of friends in it, and good people, and it was a fun melodrama and a high-octane soap-opera. But I kept cringing and shouting out and being outraged at all the phony baloney they had in it -- and it was pure fiction, with no responsibility to tell any kind of truth -- but things that would NEVER happen in rehearsals, auditions, writers' rooms, performances, dressing-rooms, at parties, on breaks, you name it.….Watching the "Pippin" stuff last night, where so many things were wrong and never happened -- no girl dancer was ever cut from the "Manson Trio" because she had rejected Bob's advances; Anne Reinking was never put into that number to replace anyone, it was always Pam Sousa and Candy Brown. And Candy was never "late" or "behind the beat" as they had Sam keep yelling at her, BY NAME!! 

Gwen never came to any "Pippin" rehearsals; she and Bob weren't together during that time. And if she had, she would NEVER in a million years have sat on the floor next to him while he was in the middle of rehearsing a number with dancers, and started nagging him about directing her in "Chicago"! Just wouldn't, and DIDN'T happen. She had too much respect for dancers, and him, and rehearsals in general. So stuff like that is hard to watch, even though it probably makes the story more dramatic or soapy or something, and doesn't bother anyone who wasn't there. And it's not a documentary, after all. But it is truly an out-of-body experience to watch a well-made, serious film about events that took place when one was in the room! Bizarre, nostalgic, but sort of deeply unpleasant at the same time. One wants them to at least get the facts right, and when they deliberately don't, there's a slight sense of invasion of privacy or something. Hard to describe. I can only imagine what, say, Hillary and Bill Clinton might think about the play that's on Broadway right now about them. Or what Alexander Hamilton might have thought about that musical on 46th Street! 

I admire all the people involved with this "Fosse/Verdon" show, it looks and sounds great, and my quibbles are just details for sure. And Nicole [Fosse] is listed as a co-executive producer, so I'm sure she's given the green light to all this stuff. My main objections are what I wrote to you yesterday -- about Bob's sweet and funny nature being turned exclusively into darkness and dourness, and about the incorrect portrayal of him as so repeatedly stuck, unable to solve a problem or come up with an idea until Gwen does it for him and saves the day. That makes me mad. Otherwise . . . it's just showbiz."

 

Updated On: 5/8/19 at 06:11 PM

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 6:25pm

It’s it like they’re saying Bob Fosse was transgender - any untruths in this series are so petty and really nothing to get upset about.

They’re telling a dramatized story in a limited number of episodes. Sometimes you have to bend the truth a little to get a theme going, or make a point on a topic that the episode or series focuses on.

Anyways - I was pretty bored by this week’s episode. I guess I’m not a big fan of bottle episodes in general. Of course everyone is doing great, I just prefer the pacing and timelines of prior episodes.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 6:27pm

With all due respect, bk.  With the goodness of my heart, PLEASE stop watching FOSSE/VERDON.  The distress it is causing you is quite frightening.  Its simply an 8-part limited series with a crap load of creative liberties.  You've made it quite clear it is upsetting you so before you keep wasting an hour of your life you are NOT getting back --- simply stop watching.  

Heck, I stopped watching THE BIG BANG THEORY, MODERN FAMILY and countless TV sitcoms once they lost my interest.  I didn't keep watching and making myself miserable.  There are other productive things I found to do with my time and I'm sure you can find more than a handful as well.  

[EdEval]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 9:05pm

Just watched Episode 5 and didn't realize how sad Gwen was at that time.  When the song Where Am I Going? was played it brought tears to my eyes.  I just found everything about this episode sad and depressing.

[bk]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 9:48pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "With all due respect, bk. With the goodness of my heart, PLEASE stop watching FOSSE/VERDON. The distress it is causing you isquite frightening. Its simply an 8-part limited series with a crap load of creative liberties. You've made it quite clear it is upsetting you so before you keep wasting an hour of your life you are NOT getting back --- simply stop watching.

Heck, I stopped watching THE BIG BANG THEORY, MODERN FAMILY and countless TV sitcoms once they lost my interest. I didn't keep watching and making myself miserable. There are other productive things I found to do with my time and I'm sure you can find more than a handful as well."

It's not causing me "distress" and the "quite frightening" is, of course, disingenuous.  Shoddy writing irritates me, yes, oh well. I like Ms. Williams and a few of the other actors very much, especially the actress playing Ann Reinking.  I had no idea that was Andie MacDowell's daughter.  More importantly, I'm watching it on Amazon Prime and PAID for that privilege, so I'll stick it out to the bitter end.  :)  And maybe I'll be surprised in a future episode.   Here's the bottom line, BrodyFosse: I wanted to love it.  With each new episode I hope that I'll finally love it.  I want to love everything I see.  Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.  Such is the way of the world.  And we're all expressing our opinions here - some LOVE it, some think it's BRILLIANT, and some don't.  I happen to be a huge fan of Mr. Fosse and wished that the portrayal of him were not so lopsided.  As John Rubinstein says so eloquently - where's the sweet and funny nature?  Why do we only get the dark.  Why is it made to seem like he can't lift a finger unless Gwen helps him, when it was not that way in life?  Do we not think there was enough drama in his life that they have to make stuff up to create drama?

 

 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 10:15pm

I am liking it a lot but not loving it as a whole. A lot of is coming off fabricated and elements of course like in any adaptation of a person's life compressed for time. I'm loving Williams' performance - she's wonderful. Rockwell's Fosse is coming off so dark and fatalistic and that's not who he completely was. By many accounts he was charming and had a great personality. 

When Ann Reinking read the script for ALL THAT JAZZ she questioned Fosse saying, "I know you’re doing this based on a part of you, but you’re not that hard to be with. You’re not that kind of person, really. Part of you is, but there are also many other parts of you.” And he said he didn’t want anyone to have pity on him, because then they wouldn’t get the true moral of the story, which is that glamour can kill and that if you don’t have a balanced life, you are going to become a slave to something that can become just like a drug and have a really serious downside. Fosse's charming personality is not coming through at all. I can't totally blame Rockwell because he's just working off of what the writers wrote. 

That being said there are some other portrayals that are really impressing me: Norbert Leo Butz is killing it as "Paddy Chayefsky", Paul Reiser as "Cy Feuer" and Susan Misner as "Joan McCracken" were also great. Margaret Qualley is acquitting herself quite nicely as "Ann Reinking" - she was so young and so naive when she met Fosse and fell in love with him and Qualley's performance not only captured that but also her great respect for Gwen Verdon. 

I especially loved the scene between Verdon and Reinking in the kitchen when Reinking is having doubts of continuing her relationship with Fosse telling Verdon that she was making excuses for his lousy behavior only to have Verdon school her and tell her that the trade off of putting up with him would be worth it  because Fosse had true feelings for her and she could give him inspiration which would lead to him giving her the same opportunities Verdon had with him: "Lola", "Charity"...."Roxie".

Updated On: 5/8/19 at 10:15 PM

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 10:40pm

The reviewer in the New Yorker who was quite critical overall said something to the effect that even if he had read his own review he still would have watched the series because he loves the theatre so much. And I think that is true of most of us on this thread. We can find things that we think work better than others or we can be critical of the approach but most of us want to tune in because we love the world of theatre from the performances to the backstage drama.

[ggersten]

Posted: 5/8/19 at 11:53pm

I thought this was the weakest episode - in part, because it was so "normal".  And I kept thinking "is this supposed to be a Bergman film only with lesser dialog and less interesting camera angles/shots/framing?" because the idea of all these people together under one uncomfortable roof - whether it happened or not - was something I would see in a Bergman film.  A lot happened but nothing happened.Seemed like a strange way to help Neil Simon with his grief, as well

And Verdon, in this episode, shed her "nice" image that the series has been selling. She knows Fosse - and how to manipulate him - and those around him.  And, it wasn't pretty. 

I too have been wondering where the charming Fosse has been in this series.

I'll keep recording and watching and wondering. And then I'll go and re-read the Wasson book..

Updated On: 5/9/19 at 11:53 PM