Helen Shaw takes down both BOM and Hamilton on Vulture- Page 4

[astromiami]

Posted: 12/24/19 at 6:37pm

I think phantom4ever's post misses a few key points.

Swift does not say that Irish people eat babies....he says that they should. BOM ascribes some pretty nasty stuff to the Ugandans, rather than recommending it to them.

And even that could work as satire, if the authors were indeed equal opportunity offenders. But they are not. The Mormons are much more gently satirized. They are oblivious, not true to themselves, and awkward. One could imagine a BOM in which the exclusions of blacks from the church pre-1978 and the harsh attitudes toward gays were presented more savagely as destructive forces. One could imagine a BOM where Ugandan's are the bumbling ineffectual group that leads the destructive unfeeling Mormon's out of darkness.

The nature of the story is such that one group has to be treated with gentler satire. Otherwise, the audience would not have anyone to root for (which seems to be important to a lot of audience members).

They could have made the Ugandans or the Mormans the center of audience sympathy. They chose the Mormans.

The show is funny and enjoyable, but to claim that it is even handed satire just does not fit with the show onstage.

[Hellob]

Posted: 12/24/19 at 7:12pm

I knew from The Public that him writing so specifically for Diggs would be an issue for replacements....but lucky for me, I’ll never see replacements. I can’t believe people are paying so much for the lower quality cast.

[inception]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 8:43am

Hellob said: "I knew from The Public that him writing so specifically for Diggs would be an issue for replacements....but lucky for me, I’ll never see replacements. I can’t believe people are paying so much for the lower quality cast. "

Well, I also missed the original cast of Der Rosenkavalier but that didn't stop me from spending $150 to see it this week.

Fall of 2014 I chose to travel to NY to see what turned out to be one of the last shows by Michael Friedman, Fortress of Solitude at the Public.  It didn't end up being good. In hindsight I should have waited until the spring to see the other new musical at the Public that season.  This was the first trip where I could get a reasonably priced ticket.  At both Met performances I attended this week, while making conversation with people I was seated beside - both times ladies my grandmother's age - when asked what else I was seeing when in the city both had the same immediate response: "We still haven't seen that!"  So, there's still lots of people even in the city for it to play to.

I have found this week that one sure way to raise the ire of a New Yorker is to have bought your seat the day they went on sale, and have the aisle seat.  You will be sure to hear every reason why they need the aisle seat more than you. 

Another comment about Hamilton, and the Helen Shaw article:  about "Immigrants, we get the job done" - at Monday's matinee the line got ZERO response.  When I went and saw the movie Knives Out last week on a Sunday night, the theatre wasn't super full.  But there were some Iranians my age who had their parents with them in my row.  Behind me was a group of Latino women in their 50's.  A few rows down some Sikhs.  Lots of Chinese.  A typical Vancouver crowd.  When Don Johnson - white as F Don Johnson - said that line to the nurse, the theatre ERUPTED!

 

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 9:28am

inception said: "Another comment about Hamilton, and the Helen Shaw article: about "Immigrants, we get the job done" - at Monday's matinee the line got ZERO response. When I went and saw the movie Knives Out last week on a Sunday night, the theatre wasn't super full. But there were some Iranians my age who had their parents with them in my row. Behind me was a group of Latino women in their 50's. A few rows down some Sikhs. Lots of Chinese. A typical Vancouver crowd. When Don Johnson - white as F Don Johnson - said that line to the nurse, the theatre ERUPTED!"

Interesting. All three times I saw it in Chicago as well as twice on the Philip Tour in Oklahoma City this year, that line got a huge response from the audience. Wonder if it was the audience or the way the cast delivers the line that resulted in no response from the audience on Broadway. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 9:55am

Miles2Go2 said: "Interesting. All three times I saw it in Chicago as well as twice on the Philip Tour in Oklahoma City this year, that line got a huge response from the audience. Wonder if it was the audience or the way the cast delivers the line that resulted in no response from the audience on Broadway."

As anyone involved in any show in any way will tell you, there are inexplicable differences in reactions night to night.It is the job of stage managers to document and address this. (There are also explicable differences too of course.) As I have said before, Helen Shaw (someone I like) wrote this very naive piece, not because she is naive but because she knew what she wanted to write beforehand. On this particular point, around the same time as her, I had an audience that did not support her thesis at all. And on the broader point about the original cast vs others, this is the essence of theatre. Every evergreen play (not to mention opera as was noted above) is different when its signature performers leave. And there are differences, not because the show was written for one person but because everyone brings something different. (If you want performative consistency, go to the movies.) I'd also note that there is a good argument that Daniel Breaker is a better Burr than LOJ was. Neither of these shows is phoning it in. Ridiculous.

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 11:25am

@HogansHero - Thanks! I always enjoy your analyses. I wish a Very Merry Christmas to you!

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 12:59pm

and to you. and everyone.

[inception]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 5:04pm

No one was "phoning it in." Daniel Breaker & Krystal Joy Brown were both excellent. Ryan Vasquez sung his role very well, I just didn't feel he has the acting chops for the role.

Yesterday, I saw the matinee of Lion King. I have never seen it before. The puppetry is nice, but I kept falling asleep. Of the 3 Disney shows, I think Aladdin is best.

Alvin Ailey dance company at City Center was very good.

Earlier today went to the Big Apple Circus. This year's show is a bit better than the one last year. Some very exciting acts - better than ones in even some of the big shows in Las Vegas.

[seahag2]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 2:36am

AADA81 said: "Call_me_jorge said: "I’d rather get a review from a college student than a boomer..."

If that comment was meant to be funny, it wasn't. If it was meant to be ignorant, you hit the jackpot."

I don't think it was meant to be funny or ignorant. Just expressing a desire....

I found it funny, though. 

[Owen22]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 8:24am

Bettyboy72 said: ""Besides, the show draws attention to actual problems like female genital mutilation and AIDS..."

I'm sorry but this is laughable. I don't find this to be true at all. While yes, "Hasa Diga eebowai" shows the difference in privilege in the two sets of characters, it also makes the Ugandans look incredibly stupid and the atrocities you claim are being brought to light are punchlines. I'm not saying I wasoffended, but lets not try to elevate this show into something it isn't."

I have seen some ludicrous posts in my many years on broadwayworld.com...but this one...

...dear god....

 

[Synecdoche2]

Posted: 12/27/19 at 2:22am

AADA81 said: "Synecdoche2 said: "AADA81 said: "Call_me_jorge said: "I’d rather get a review from a college student than a boomer..."

If that comment was meant to be funny, it wasn't. If it was meant to be ignorant, you hit the jackpot."

*you know I had to do it to 'em*

Ok, boomer."

I expected that to be the clever comeback.... to this non-boomer."

...whoosh...

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 1:02pm

I feel like there are a lot of different arguments going on here. I'm fine with humor aging poorly. Some Oscar Wilde quotes will forever be witty and often quoted. Not everyone is Oscar Wilde. Also "equal opportunity offenders" as a defense assumes that all the targets exist in the world on an equal playing field and further that everyone has an equal opportunity to be a creator/comedian telling jokes that might offend. 

The post-2016 general argument rests on shakier ground. I don't need all my revivals edited for wokeness. And sometimes you just feel bad. The world is a sh***y place on many days. Sometimes you can leave that at the door of the theater and sometimes you can't. But unless it's something the show is consistently making you aware of, I think that's on you. 

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 3:19pm

yankeefan7 said:  Sadly, I think the entire world is offended by something. I am sure we could go to every show on Broadway and find something somebody might think is offensive. This Boomer (lol) remembers the day when you could make Italian, Irish and Polish (BTW - I am part Irish and my wife is Italian)jokes about people and they would understand it was a joke and laugh. I think the world is a better place if we can make fun/mock people in power, religion and just about anything."

I think so too. 

 

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 3:23pm

Hellob said: "I knew from The Public that him writing so specifically for Diggs would be an issue for replacements....but lucky for me, I’ll never see replacements. I can’t believe people are paying so much for the lower quality cast."

Im shocked too. $849? For Hamilton in 2019? Jesus Christ. I saw it in May 2015 at The Public, and I will never forget it the rest of my life. The best cast I've ever seen for $90. Steal of the century. 

[clever2]

Posted: 12/29/19 at 5:05pm

Current top face value price for Hamilton is $998.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 9/10/21 at 1:41pm

For some reason, I was thinking about the recent re-thinking of BOM by the cast and creatives during the pandemic, where they are considering rewriting, and also taking a look at how the direction of replacements has eroded the humorous delivery, and I thought about Helen Shaw's article. Certain aspect she commented on seem to be the very things they are saying they are looking at now.