IF/THEN Musical WITH SPOILERS- Page 4

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/13/13 at 8:08am

Can I ask a larger question?

What is the point of these two parallel universe stories? What do we (the audience) take away as a result of seeing them? What do the characters learn as well?

Is it just to show us that the decisions we make on a daily basis in our lives change the outcome? Or is there an actual reason for this parallel concept?

[mcsquared]

Posted: 11/13/13 at 10:11am

The way it's set up in the first few minutes, it's how things would have been different if she had never met her husband in the park since the timing of his death was due to the family-related delay in deployment. So more the role of chance than decisions.

[brotherhoodofman]

Posted: 11/13/13 at 11:12am

I saw this last night and stage doored after. Anthony Rapp, James Snyder and LaChanze all asked if I could follow the transitions and story lines. Snyder said they continue to make changes daily on the story and lyrics, so it sounds like the transitions are something under a lot of scrutiny by the creators -- scrutiny I think is much needed.

[DC.ETC.]

Posted: 11/13/13 at 10:30pm

I saw this on Saturday. While I am extremely supportive of the original work, the show needs to handle numerous kinks.

I'm going to preface this all by saying that I was sitting in the nosebleed section, which was personally disorienting. So. That could account for some confusion, but not all of it. Also, I've never seen a show's out of town run before, so I understand there is some slack to be cut as they work through the material:

1. To be embarrassingly honest, even after I noticed the lighting split, I still didn't understand the the diverging lives catch until much later. I had a serious moment wondering why our heroine was becoming so promiscuous, and if we were actually about to witness a show about a spiraling sex addiction (they were so witholding about the plot....). Even after I caught on, I still found myself doing the math, wondering what life we were in. The wedding scene was the most confusing.

2. The plane crash. While paired with a wonderful song, this felt so completely disjointed. A bizarre and melodramatic twist that is barely referenced after (????). The people I went with turned it into a punchline, which, we want to avoid at all costs.

3. All the children?? There was also a lot of confusion about babies and abortions. The people I was with also thought a baby was lost in the plane crash, another person was confused as to whose child was whose during a scene with a personal assistant, another didn't know where the second child "came from." (Where the first one came from, I'd imagine.) I think they just got overwhelmed in the second act and lost focus.

4. THEMES. I really enjoy this If/Then theme, but between the book and the music, the audience is beaten over the head with it, and it loses some of its power and haunt.

BOTTOM LINE: I didn't mention the cast because they're incredible, as is the creative team behind it. There are some genuinely hilarious moments, and beautiful songs. Idina has numerous STAND OUT moments, Lachanze is nothing short of joyous on stage, and Anthony Rapp really grounds the show and delivers the laughs. There doesn't seem to be a weak link, so I really hope the production does two things: tunes up the plot clarity, and tones down the constant "fate" references and "fate" songs. It's too self-aware right now. A little thematic subtlety and plot clarity could get If/Then in great shape. I'd really like to see this show succeed!

[iflip4musicals]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 8:35am

I saw it last night and I enjoyed it. I thought the actors were outstanding, the score was great (less so the melodies they kept singing, it felt like 5 different songs total), the set, the lighting, but the story and the piece as a whole never really came together for all of the reasons already mentioned. I found the book and lyrics to be pretty lacking, but I also went in with very high expectations.

My big question though was in which story does she kiss and have an affair (I assumed, it wasn't shown) with her boss? I thought that all happened in Beth, but the people I saw it with think that there was a third story line with the boss in it. Can anyone help clarify?

[promisespromises2]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 10:04am

^I think that it happened with Beth. Because when Anthony Rapps character comes in she admits to him that she kissed him, correct?

[iflip4musicals]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 10:14am

That's what I thought.

[veronicamae]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 10:30am

Liz married Josh and had kids. Steven ("boss") and she are great friends and Steven's wife loves her.

Beth kissed Steven (and the Steven's wife is always rude to her/jealous), slept with Lucas, and...did not have kids.

[BroadwayBryce]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 1:15pm

I saw the show yesterday, and got a good sense that it was broadway-ready. I found very few kinks needed to be worked out. I read this post before I saw the show so I was able to pick up on the two story lines and once I got the hang of it, the quick switches became cooler to me. I told my friend who I saw it with about the two story lines before it started and during intermission, she said, "had you not told me about the two story lines I wouldn't have understood". The issue with this, is that if they want a more general broadway audience to enjoy it, they need to make the changes more noticeable. Most people will be seeing this show with no knowledge of what it's about and most people probably won't pick up in the changes until either the second act or second half of the first act. I saw the Wednesday matinee and I'm pretty sure their were no more than 20 people under 30 at the show. Almost every adult or old person was quite confused during intermission so I think they need to get the two stories lines more clearer.

The plane crash scene, though irrelevant, was done beautifully. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time and the song was beautiful. Even though the idea of a plane crash is weird, I do get that in the seconds of a plane falling, one would think about his or her life choices in that moment. I think having a car crash their would loose that moment of, "what if" and what the whole show is all about.

I also wanted the theme of the story to be more clear. By the end of seeing kinky boots, I totally got the theme. In this show, it took more digging to develop a theme myself. But the theme was still great once I got it.

I did love the spreadsheet or "map of New York" song. It was fun and I think advance the work story line further.

The set was absolutely incredible and I think I spent a good 5 minutes just admiring the giant mirror. The turn table and apartment set was just fantastic.

Overall, I think they've used this period to make great changes and they seem to be making changes literally every show. I'd highly suggest seeing it in DC or broadway because the whole experience is just great and very well put together with a extremely talented and hilarious cast

[Noel&Cole]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 3:40pm

these posts remind of the original reaction to MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG and what's been it's obstacle for so long, They also had a great cast, great material, but it was extremely confusing to the audience. Sounds like this is a problem here as well.

[gleek4114]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 6:36pm

I have a friend who saw the Matinee yesterday and said they loved the show. They went to the stage door and everyone came out except Idina. They asked if she was coming and they said no because she was going over notes with the director. So with this being said they really are using this time wisely and making changes after EVERY show. But I also have a few questions myself.

1. How were Jenn Coella and Ryann Redmond Used?
2. Were they selling window cards?

I would love to see the show and get a window card but sadly DC is not right down the street. Hopefully I can see it on Broadway. If anyone who goes would be kind enough to get me a playbill or a window card i would be glad to pay for it plus shipping.

[BroadwayBryce]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 8:53pm

@gleek4114

1. Jenn Collela was LaChanze's girlfriend in the musical. The outcome of that relationship is dependent on which path Elizabeth(Idina) chooses. In one path, they stay married, in the other, they get divorced. Ryann Redmond was basically featured ensemble. She had a few lines as two different random characters throughout the show but she was very funny in both and the audience laughed.

2. Yes they are selling window cards

[gleek4114]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 9:01pm

Do you know how I could get a window card? Maybe email the theatre?

[BroadwayBryce]

Posted: 11/14/13 at 9:47pm

@gleek4114 worth a shot!

[carolinaguy]

Posted: 11/15/13 at 8:39am

Does Idina have an entrance moment? Is there applause?

[mschwager]

Posted: 11/15/13 at 9:13am

At the very beginning it lights up just on her and she gets applause right at the top. It doesn't take away from the show or break any moments up

[mschwager]

Posted: 11/15/13 at 9:13am

At the very beginning it lights up just on her and she gets applause right at the top. It doesn't take away from the show or break any moments up

[CandiceElyseM]

Posted: 11/15/13 at 3:29pm

I saw the show Wednesday night and absolutely loved it, albeit work is definitely needed. I really havent been able to get the show out of my head the past two days.
The things that need work have been mentioned several times already but here are my observations:
-The first half of Act I i found myself trying ever so hard to follow the two story lines and figure out which was which. I didnt really notice the color scheming and about halfway through I remembered the first scene about them fighting over her new nickname and i was like OH THATS RIGHT! Problem solved, I followed from that point on.
-The plane crash in Act II does seem sort of random but I feel like it could be easily remedied with some book work. When Steven is pitching the new job/promotion to Beth all he needs to say is it would come with more travel or something along those lines and just like that it wouldnt seem so random. They also need to do a better job of making the plane crash some sort of catalyst for Beth's transformation, I think thats what they are going for but as of now its not done so well. I will remain optimistic, however.
-The Story of Dick and Jane number was random and unnecessary, but I hope they can revise it somehow because the opportunity to see LaChanze in action as a kindergarten teacher was great. My friend and I thought maybe it didnt work because it only pertained to Beth and didnt incorporate Liz, but we were just taking shots in the dark.
-The relationship with Beth and Stephen after she kisses him needs one more piece to the puzzle. She kisses him, he says no and leaves, and then all of a sudden hes hated by all. It seemed forced or something, I dont know. I get that it is a big plot point for Beth, and is what pushes her into bed with Lucas, but after that I didnt really get the general disgust with him. I didnt particularly care for his character though, so i suppose they are onto something?
-Josh's number about becoming a father seemed forced or something. I couldnt put my finger on it but I loved the scene before it.

OK On to positives!
-Music was wonderful, i need a Cast Recording STAT. Some need work or trimming down but i dont like to make big judgments about a score after just one listen. Here I Go was my favorite followed ever so closely by WTF.
-Liz and Josh's relationship is sickeningly cute. I just absolutely ate up their constant flirtatious banter. The fire between them makes the "I Hate You/I Love You" number work so well for Liz, that was a great emotional point of the show for me. I also loved, though so sad, the entire course of their relationship. Because after the first act my friend and I couldnt understand why Liz's life seemed SO much more appealing than Beth's. It made Act II all the more appealing, it really built my intrigue.
-The best transition between Liz/Beth (which I believe was already mentioned) was definitely when the audience thought Lucas was still under the covers and Josh popped up to revert the story back to Liz. The entire audience audibly loved the surprise.
-Sets are great, my favorite was the first time Josh comes to her apartment. Lights on the floor are reflected onto the mirrors to make stars and a reflection of a lamp in her apartment doubles as the moon, i thought it was really clever. the giant mirror thing was eyecatching the whole time, i really enjoyed it.
-The Cast as a whole is phenomenal. Such a joy to watch. Idina Menzel was basically flawless, I have always loved her but seeing her live for the first time, she truly blew me away. LaChanze is also another wonderful standout, she had such spunk! Everyone except for the actor who played Stephen and some of the lesser ensemble members came out to sign at the stage door and were so incredibly gracious. James Snyder was asking for our feedback, where we thought the show needed work, which i thought was great.

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed the show expecting that it was not going to be perfect. With the right adjustments and clarifications for a broader audience it has the potential to be a really great piece IMO. I'm probably going to try and go back via the lottery toward the end of the run to see the changes theyve made if I can get the chance. Has anyone participated in the lottery that can report how crowded it is by chance?

[gleek4114]

Posted: 11/15/13 at 4:25pm

Thank you so much for your detailed review! I am so sad I won't get to see it anytime soon because the whole adea of two storylines and seeing each side of fate interegues me so much! And about I cast recording: If you PM me I will send you a naughty copy as soon as I get it (should be this weekend). Thanks again!

[MCfan2]

Posted: 11/17/13 at 9:04pm

I'm really grateful for this thread -- it helped me to prepare for seeing it this afternoon! Especially the tip about the lighting scheme -- that helped immensely. Although I noticed one scene where Liz got blue lights. (And I got a bit panicky when the lights looked yellow or green. )

However, I was with a big group -- one of the theater Meetup groups here -- and a lot of them had real trouble following.

The singing was just amazing; Idina especially was in wonderful voice. But I felt that characterization was a bit of a problem. With a show as fragmented as this, it must be difficult to create a character arc.

Re: The Dick and Jane song -- I think it didn't work because it just didn't sound like she was talking to a kindergarten class. At ALL. So the main conceit of the song didn't work. Kindergarteners are into simple concepts, not following the complicated twists and turns of adult lives. This is one of the things that some of us in the group talked about afterward, and there was a lot of agreement on that.

Also, I liked the subway map effect, but that song about the wonders of city planning fell flat for me. I don't know, maybe you have to live in New York to truly appreciate it!


Updated On: 11/17/13 at 09:04 PM

[indytallguy]

Posted: 11/17/13 at 9:08pm

For me, the big problem with the kindergarten song is that uif you cut it, the show wouldn't miss it at all. Therefore it feels as if it was only added to give LaChanze a fun number to sing.

[Tina C2]

Posted: 11/17/13 at 9:35pm

We saw If/Then on Saturday night (11/16) and really liked the show. The music really stuck with us - I found myself humming some of the songs today. The cast, of course, is really talented and has a good chemistry. The premise of how small decisions can alter a lifetime had us talking for an hour after the show. (It did strike a little close to home since my wife and I met by chance in a park 20+ yrs ago.)

I agree with CandiceElyseM - it took a little time to catch on to the Liz/Beth thing in the first act. I missed the color change. Maybe liz/Beth's look could somehow change.

While we loved the show, we didn't quite understand where kissing Stephen (the Boss) fell in the storyline. Also, we were a bit confused by the scene with the assistant leaving for the West Coast - whose baby was that? Seems like both those scenes didn't really add anything. RE: the plane crash - I thought it was on take off and that's how she survived, but I could totally be wrong.

Idina Menzel was amazing, especially in the second act when she cuts loose. She and James Snyder sound great together. We really loved the Kate-Anne (LaChanze - Jenn Colella) chemistry too. The man behind me gasped out loud when Anthony Rapp and Jason Tam kiss, but the older woman next to me seemed to say "awwww."

There was a little set malfunction on Saturday night when the rotating floor didn't stop where it was supposed to during one of the songs where Idina sings to the mirror. That said, we liked the set and how easy it became a park, an office, an apartment.

Can't wait to see the finished show. We may see it one more time before it leaves DC.

[CandiceElyseM]

Posted: 11/17/13 at 11:44pm

I agree that Beth kissing Stephen feels random and should be handled better, but I still feel like its the only explanation for why she gets upset and jumps into bed with Lucas. She obviously doesn't have feelings for Lucas so i feel like she needs that motivation for some ill advised sympathy sex haha. That being said, i agree it feels way out of place, maybe they need to add some more blatant flirtation between the two leading up to it to generate some sparks? Who knows, i'm no playwright!

I am also hoping to return to the show before it leaves DC. I think its so great that even though we can identify all these issues, I still feel like its a great show!

[MCfan2]

Posted: 11/18/13 at 9:52am

Huge crowd at the stage door yesterday; being short, I couldn't see a thing over their heads. And then LaChanze came out the front door. I saw her but thought, "Nah, that can't be her, she'd be at the stage door. Just someone who looks like her." Then a few people on the sidewalk recognized her as she headed out into the street, and started applauding, and she looked back and gave a smile and a wave. So it was her after all! Guess she didn't have time to stage door -- she had one of those bags-on-wheels contraptions and looked like she was going somewhere in a hurry.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 11/18/13 at 10:19am

I haven't seen the show, but from reading reviews/descriptions here it does sound like it could potentially be sexist.