If you could change a scene from a show...

[SirLiir]

Posted: 10/12/05 at 9:50pm

I was thinking today about several shows that have some weak scenes in them that can stand to use a rewrite. So I am asking all aspiring writers to take a try on writing an alternate scene. Ill give an example from Wicked.

Scene: Right before I am not the Girl ie the Fiyero and Elphaba scene. The one problem I always have with this scene is that it does not make clear why Fiyero likes Elphaba. Heres my take that I feel could not only provide better understanding but at least make more sense.

Orginal- E: You may pretend to be self absorbed and shallow.
F: Excuse me. There is no pretense here. I happen to be genuinely self-absorbed and deeply shallow.
E: No your not...or you wouldn't be so unhappy.
F: -pause- Look if you dont want my help.
E: No I do (grabs his hand) etc etc etc

My take: E: You may pretend to be self-absorbed and shallow.
F: Excuse me there is no pretense here. I happen to be genuinly self-aborbed and deeply shallow.
E: No you're not.
F: -shocked but recovers- Yes I am. I mean, whats the point of being anything else? I am a prince. One day my kingdom will be mine and all this fun, this dancing, will be over. Why become deep and thoughtful? It just doesnt matter. Forget love as well. All I seem to attract are the same shallow and self-absorbed girls anyway...
E: Thats...thats not true.
F: Oh you mean Galinda (ed: fixed)? Ha! Just the same. Another girl who sees me for my looks and reputation.
E: Then...what kind of girl do you want?
F: Forget it. This is what my life is and I am enjoying it
E: Thats not true. Or you wouldn't be so unhappy.

At least Fiyero now has *gasp* motivation to liking Elphaba lol. More coming soon from other plays. Please feel free to post some of your own rewrites.



Updated On: 10/14/05 at 09:50 PM

[SirLiir]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 2:39am

Bumping back up once to see if people missed this thread. Please, feel free to share some creative ideas for your favorite shows.

[jimmirae]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 3:38am

Give me some white-out and Ave. Q!!!

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 4:53am

AHHHH...TOO...MUCH...WICKED...

Anyway, that said, as much as I love SWEENEY TODD (probably too much, as some of you may have caught on by now), "By the Sea" is rather pointless and was probaby only written to give Angela Lansbury more to do ("Wait" doesn't really need to be there either).

[AllNite429]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 8:07am

It would be Galinda at that point in the show since she changes her name before she and Elphaba go to the Emerald City... but that's a minor thing.

[Kate2]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 8:08am

Even though i have a BatBoy obsession (and i do), I think "inside your Heart" should be re-written. I don't care much for the London version of "mine of Mine" either. It isn't melodic and doesn't fit the rest of the show. but at least they recognized the problem. That's the first step. Now maybe they'll write a third song for the movie.

When I was in the show, that scene never achieved the emotion it should have. The in-between parts are good but when it reaches the "Let me shield you from harm..." bit, it isn't enough.

Oh well.

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 10:40am

SirLiir---my hat is off to you. A very nice effort on that, and well done!

I personally wasn't bothered by that scene, but I can see how you were and what your points are. They're well taken.

For me, the final library "confrontation" scene in RAGTIME has always bothered me. The second act is bloated with WAY too many power ballads in a row, and I think it undermines this amazing and brilliant show by hitting the audience over the head with hard-driven messages. I love "Back To Before" which I feel is necessary for Mother to finally take a stand and move on. But her anthem to independence is followed by the library scene with Coalhouse.

The song "Make Them Hear You," much as I like it, should be cut altogether. This scene would be far more effective and dramatic with dialogue alone. It also stops the action of that moment entirely, by having him sing a repetitive lyric that doesn't really dive further into his sentiments or ideas. Lose the song, and the show would have a much stronger and tighter second act.

Updated On: 10/13/05 at 10:40 AM

[jasonf]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 10:58am

Distinctive Baritone - I TOTALLY disagree with you about By the Sea - because of ONE line that a theater teacher once pointed out to me. Mrs. Lovett is singing this pleasant little song about their future, how they can be happy together etc. -- and then out of no where throws in the line "No and then you can do a guest in..."

This line shows that the motivations for Mrs. Lovett's participation in this whole thing go deeper than just making money. She at least believes (whether or not it's true) that Sweeney ENJOYS the killing, that there's far more to it for him than revenge. By extension, she approves of the murders on a level beyond making money from the pies - she enjoys it also - it's part of her fantasy world with Sweeney. I think the song shows that these two people ARE evil, not just motivated by greed and revenge, and when those two needs are taken care of, they would stop.

I don't think "Wait" is useless either because it sets up "Pretty Women" -- Sweeney could have just killed the judge, but Mrs. L. put the idea of "waiting" into his head.

[cathywellerstein]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 10:58am

don't get me wrong, i love dance of the vampires. but there are still many changes that i would have made. the most important change would be to make Krolock a serious character. he'd be more believable that way. the other characters can be comic, but i think that krolock should have taken his character more seriously so that there was a greater change in him by the end.

this is probably one of the reasons that the show didn't do well. krolock, a central character, was all over the place with his lines and emotions. it would have been more compelling if he was more serious.

i'd change the scene where krolock attempts to give the fallical sponge to alfred. why not just have herbert do it? it would be more funny and it would allow krolock to remain more serious.

there's more. but i love this show and it holds a special place in my heart. i guess it's pointless to suggest changes because the chances of this show coming back to broadway(or anywhere) are extremely low. but i just had to get those little things off my chest!

[Janean]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 8:16pm

I totally agree with the Make Them Hear You from Ragtime -- much as the song makes a point, the point gets battered into your brain.

My little pet peeve is the very quick ending of Chicago -- or at least way Miss Mary Sunshine is handled. I wanted something fun, or a real POINT ... Hm, guess I'd better put a

SPOILER ALERT

for the one person who still hasn't seen Chicago or knows nothing about it.
To have Billy just pull the wig from Sunshine is really pointless. Voila, "things aren't always what they seem." At least let Billy and Sunshine have a lip lock or something to let it really sink in

[ljay889]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 8:22pm

Well personally I see a HUGE point being made by the the revealing of Mary Sunshine.

[Prettylittlepicture2]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 11:02pm

Oh, but Distinctive Baritone! If By The Sea was removed from the show, I'd die of depression. (Okay, over-reacting a little.) I happen to love By The Sea, even if it doesn't do much for the plot. (Personally, I think it does much for the character, but that's another story.) Even if it was added so Lansbury could do more, without it, I think something'd be lacking. It's like Mrs. Lovett's one, final moment of cheer before everything she knows and finds comfort in goes quickly spirling into chaos.

Uhhh, I'll shut up now.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 10/13/05 at 11:04pm

Peter Pan fails to teach the Darling children to fly. No trip to Neverland. Peter Pan leaves. The end.

I'm the worst!

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 3:17am

Hmm, I see your points on Ragtime but Make Them Hear You is one of my favorite songs, and I suppose maybe it could be cut down a bit but to me that's one of the most important themes of the whole show. The contrasting ways Coalhouse attempts to be heard...first in a completely just way, and then resorting to violence. It's the part of the show where I started crying. I don't know, I think it's an important part, and I don't mind that it maybe interrupts "the pace" b/c for me a well-constructed song serves its own pace.

[Piazzaslight]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 7:41am

I'd cut the scene in Count Fosco's house for THE WOMAN IN WHITE. After "You Can Get Away with Anything," the scene really dragged with the seduction song. That song really needed to be shortened. Actually, to me, the whole second act after that scene really needed some editing.

Oh, and thanks for the laugh CapnHook. Good one.

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 10:12am

wickedrentq---I love "Make Them Hear You" as well. No arguments there. It's a beautiful song. But sometimes composers & directors have to make that difficult decision to remove a terrific song in order to make the show better and stronger overall. The Gershwins cut "The Man I Love" from (something like) FOUR of their musicals. They kept trying to make it work in SOME show, but it just didn't. And it's an incredible, classic song.

I wouldn't want to kill this moment in the show either. But I think it can be stronger with spoken dialogue and some emotionally painful and powerful silence. If you haven't already, see the film version of Ragtime from 1981. This scene is far more effective than the one in the musical. It's pretty devastating.

It's the dramatic equivalent of Maria in West Side Story pointing the gun at everyone after Tony is tragically killed. I wouldn't want her to burst into song there, either. The dialogue and the silences in between create a far more powerful punch.

...And other than that, RAGTIME is a perfect show, as far as I'm concerned. It's one of my all-time favorites... ever.

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 10:28am

To disagree a bit more with By The Sea and Wait...

By The Sea: I'm come to think this song is about Nellie's desire to leave London and live a cleaner life. She has amassed almost enough money to buy a home, and uses the song to try to persuade Sweeney to join her and tempts him with the chance to kill someone once in a while--that line comes closer to the end of the song, indicating to me a new tactic (bright ideas just pop into her head) when Sweeney seems unresponsive. It's a fantasy that's she's likely had since childhood, and now she has the means and the man to make it happen.

Wait: I think she's definitely more frightened of Sweeney at this point in the show, and perhaps fears for her own life, since she's the one who's told him the judge would come. Music to soothe the savage beast so to speak, and save her own neck...so to speak...

I can see your point, with "Make Them Hear You," which to me only works in the last lines--I'll be near you (meaning Sarah) again...I think he's resigned himself to die and is talking himself into walking out that door. Now whether or not Brian Stokes played it this way I don't know, I saw Alton do it, who was incredible and I was so busy sobbing hysterically I don't know that I recall his particular interpretation.

But these are two of my absolute favorite shows, so it's hard for me to see them as flawed...which I'm sure they are. Not!

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 10:43am

I'll weigh in on "By the Sea" and "Wait" as well. lildogs and others are right... Both are incredibly necessary to the plot, Lovett's character development, and her motivation. "Wait" gives us the first hint of what Mrs. Lovett wants. At least initially. She soothes Sweeney while singing to him, then talks about adding flowers to the room to cheer it up. She wants a better life for both of them. It's the beginning of her plans.

"By the Sea" shows us Lovett's ultimate dream. This is what she is "working" toward through the whole show. The motivation for all her evil doings. Eliminating that would undermine the leading lady's goals and agenda.

And you can throw in that they're both damn fine songs too! (But that's "extra.")

And lildogs---I think all of the important dramatic moments of the song "Make Them Hear You" should remain, even if the song goes. It's a hugely important dramatic moment. Coalhouse's line about being with Sarah again could easily be spoken. I think your tears would still come... along with many others in the audience. And my opinion on cutting the number has nothing to do with Stokes's performance of it, or the quality of the song itself. Both were outstanding. It's just "one too many power ballads in a row." That's why I think it's undermining its own good intentions and weakening the overall show.

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 10:54am

I see what you're saying, best...it is emotionally tasking to go through all those heavy songs...and I agree, like I said, I think it only has resonance (for me) in the last lines...

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 10:59am

End of RENT.

Keep the bitch dead.

[EganFan2]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 11:14am

"My Fair Lady"- Eliza does leave to marry Freddy. My mom and I always hated how she came back to Higgins.

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 11:18am

EganFan2---The play's original author George Bernard Shaw hated it, too! He had Eliza leaving Higgins at the end, and was horrified when it was changed to have her stay.

Updated On: 10/14/05 at 11:18 AM

[Corine2]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 11:29am

I loved Zanna but hated the ending.
In my version the couples would stay with their same sex partners and Zanna would end up alone.
Just my opinion.
Also, instead of the bird. The bird would be a puppet, especially if John Tags was in it. The bird would sing.

[bebe de broadway]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 12:04pm

Well... I've never seen wicked, though i've been listening to it since it came out. lol. I'm just travel unfortunate.

But I disagree with your changed scene. I doubt fiero's character would open up that much.

ANYHOW, if I could change a scene, it would be the end of Annie Get Your Gun. I get so pissed that she looses just so he'll like her again. Talk about ridiculous. lol

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/14/05 at 12:07pm

Yes, you can add the Annie Get Your Gun ending to the "Eliza takes him back anyway" list of forehead-slappers.

These shows are definitely from another era in history.