Kander and Ebb

[jv92]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 1:34pm

In honor of the new (and first) biography coming out from Yale University Press on the dynamic songwriting duo, let's discuss old John and Fred, shall we? We haven't in a while.
I'll start things off. Favorite Kander and Ebb flop? There are so many, but let's narrow it down to-

Flora
The Happy Time
70, Girls, 70
The Act
The Rink
Steel Pier

As much as I really love all of these scores, save for The Act which had its best song cut out of town, I've recently rediscovered 70, Girls, 70 and find it as chaming and lovely as anything they've written. And God, "Home" is so damned infectious.
We can discuss the Kander and Ebb hits too, of course (Those being Cabaret, Zorba!, Chicago, Kiss of the Spider Woman and Curtains).

The link to info on the new book is included in this thread as well. I'm excited to read it!

Link Updated On: 2/10/09 at 01:34 PM

[sing_dance_love]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 4:29pm

I am OBSESSED with Steel Pier. I think the score is just stunning, in kind of like a low-key way. I love it.

I wish I could get a chance to put on a production of it because I know I'd find a way to make it work.

Kander and Ebb really did make some magical music.

[jv92]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 4:36pm

I think the problem with 70 Girls and Steel Pier is that they are kind of unworkable. Didn't 70 Girls do very well at Encores! though? Perhaps in 25 years (in Encores! is still here), Steel Pier will do the same.
The Happy Time and The Rink ought to be revived, especially the latter. Am I weird for thinking Karen Akers would be excellent in the Chita role in The Rink?
Updated On: 2/10/09 at 04:36 PM

[Smaxie]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 4:56pm

70 Girls was a smash at York's Mufti, but a letdown at Encores. It's a messy show, at least in its original version, but a blast to watch.

[tazber]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 5:00pm

Love the score to The Act. City Lights, Money Tree, Little Do They Know, so many goodies!

[BroadwayBound115]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 5:43pm

I am playing Lt. Cioffi in my production of Curtains. I have searched through the script and the score and I really have not seen a flaw. Its a shame this only have a year and a half on Broadway.

[danceallnight]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 6:21pm

I think 70 Girls 70 is fun to listen to.

[PiraguaGuy2]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 6:23pm

I'll go with THE ACT.

...Hot tranny mess.

[jv92]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 8:03pm

A story about The Act-

Fred takes Chita to a preview out of town and she turns to him at the end.
Chita: Freddy, this is the worst musical I have ever seen.
Fred: I know, I know, but how can we fix it?
Chita: I don't know. It's just awful.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/10/09 at 10:09pm

Someone said at the time, "The Act is good or bad depending on how much coke you do."

That was as true for the audience as it was for the cast.

What? It was 1978.

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 12:12am

Even back when I was just getting into musicals, I always favored flop musical. I had "Flahooley" and "Anyone Can Whistle" in my library before I had "Music Man" or "Camelot".

Well, Kander and Ebb wrote "Chicago" and "Cabaret". So, of course I didn't have any of their albums in my collection.

I found a copy of "70, Girls, 70" at a library sale for a buck and fell in love with it.

Even if the show itself was a complete and total shambles, how the reviewers at the time couldn't fall in love with those songs is beyond me!

"Flora, the Red Menace" is another delight:
"Sing Happy"
"The Flame"
"Express Yourself" is just a little gem.
And when I got the call saying that I was cast in "Mystery of Irma Vep", the first thing that I wanted to do was pull out my copy of this show and listen to Liza sing "A Quiet Thing".

[Actor 7]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 12:19am

I would love to see revivals of The Happy Time and The Rink. I also love the score for Steel Pier. I think the best thing the American Theatre Wing could do would be to release ALL the footage from the Tony Awards of past taped shows. I think they started taping Tony Award Shows in 1966. I realize their are always clearance rights issues that seem to prevent this from happening but what a great service it would be to those who love the theatre. It will probably never happen, but I wish it would.

[nmartin]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 5:19am

I saw The Rink and really loved it.

[bob8rich]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 5:26am

LOVE anything by Kander and Ebb. But of their "flops" I guess I really love The Happy Time - and I finally got to see it last May at the Signature Theatre, Arlington and it was really fabulous.

I was lucky enough to be at the closing night of Steel Pier, which had a great atmosphere. Love the score but the book did not really work - although it did have some special dramatic moments.

As for The Rink - there was an article on Playbill last year saying that there is going to be a revival in London in 2009 starring Chita Rivera and directed by John Doyle. But I've heard nothing more about it.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 6:14am

I, too, am fond of THE HAPPY TIME's score and would love to see a production of it. Wasn't there supposed to be a problem with its use of projections at the rear of the stage? How about an Off-Broadway production, scaled back during this difficult economic time.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 5:25pm

I saw the London production of The Rink and felt that the score sits uneasily with the nature of Terence McNally's book. I felt that was true with Kiss of the Spider Woman as well, though to a much lesser extent.

I love the OBC of 70 Girls 70 but find the London recording lacklustre in comparison, even though the performers are much more familiar to me and I've seen most of them do much better in other things.

[jv92]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 5:34pm

More on The Act-

K&E wrote a song called "Please, Sir" for the show about a girl who liked to be smacked around. I'll just spoil the damned thing for everyone. It starts off with the girl singing about how she was always told by her mother to mind her manners by saying "Please, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you very much, sir." It ends with her saying that durring rough sex. What a marvelous twist! I love it!
Supposedly it was written as a joke and Liza hated it. She must have really hated it to have them cut it out of town.
Anyway, what's ironic is that it reveals a lot about whatever the hell the lady in The Act is called and that it's probably the best song in the show. I'm not the only person who's said that.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 5:51pm

>Anyway, what's ironic is that it reveals a lot about whatever the hell the lady in The Act is called<

Michelle Craig

Posted: 2/11/09 at 7:41pm

I think Kander and Ebb often needed a director with true vision to drive them. I'm a big fan of a number of their flops--The Rink is probably my fave (it just doesn't quite work IMHO), but for me their top shows were spearheaded by great directors (or finalized by them) (Of course Martin Scorsese was meant to direct The Act and saw it as a bizarre kinda spin off from their film New York New York but that didn't last)

Chicago with Fosse
and with Hal Prince, Cabaret, Kiss of the Spider Woman and Zorba.

Zorba is by far their most underated show IMHO. Despite a great Debbie Shapiro Gravitte in the revival I have no interest or love for it--I hate how they softened and sentimentalized. The original Hal Prince production (which had an ok run but ultimately flopped--though it recouped in its second tour with Chita Rivera) for me is in many ways a missing link between the first Hal Prince concept musical, with designs by Boris Aronson, and the one after Zorba with Aronson--and Sondheim; Company. Lots of the techniques Hal used betwee the two you can see a clear development. Aronson's original dark, heavy designs made of cloth are also stunning and I love how dark the original libretto is. it's a great (sadly out of print) cast album too. I always wonder if it had been a huge hit if Hal woulda done another K&E musical instead of Company.

(People often don't realize how brilliant the choreography was in the original stage Cabaret with Hal Prince--because Fosse's brilliant film has overshadowed that. Some said it was too brilliant--I have the Telephone Song/Dance on video and it's *awesome* and some felt it was too good for the context of the show. Anyway the underated ROn Fields also did reallyw ell received ethnic dances for Zorba)

Anyway I'm always pimping Zorba but I trhink, in its original version it was a stunnign show that just got overshadowed by being "bookended" by Cabaret and Company. The only real clip of the original cast is http://www.bluegobo.com/production.php?var=10187&mode=P&vid=0 but for some reason they have Herschel singing the opening song in a bouzouki style, not the divine (at least on CD) Lorraine Serabian as the Leader.

*edit* oh the Zorba remastered OBC album is back in print, kinda. Arkivmusic, who mainly do reissues of classical music recordings (I got the recording of the long out of print Bernstien opera A QUiet Place from them) have reissued it with all the liner notes back for a decent price--amazon marketplace has it Updated On: 2/11/09 at 07:41 PM

[jv92]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 8:47pm

Next to Chicago, Zorba is my favorite Kander and Ebb show.

Posted: 2/11/09 at 9:12pm

And Ihope you prefer the original production :P

[jv92]

Posted: 2/11/09 at 9:16pm

Oh God, yes! The revised version is a stinker.

[jv92]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 6:52pm

I just read James Leve's new biography, Kander and Ebb, from Yale University Press.
The book is fascinating and informative. It is more biographical than the other Yale Broadway Masters book I read, the one on Frank Loesser, but it isn't a biography on the lines of Meryle Secrest's Stephen Sondheim, for example.
It includes information about all of their shows, plus their unproduced ones (K&E wanted to attempt a thinly veiled musical about the life of Eva Peron using different character names, for example) and the upcoming ones (Minstrel Show, for example). The author, James Leve, has obviously had full access to Kander and Ebb's papers and it shows.
There are some errors- the agent in Chicago's name is called Henry Glassman, not Harry Glassman. "You'll Never Walk Alone" is not called "Walk On"- but other than that it's a wonderful book. Any musical theatre or K&E fans ought to read it.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 6:56pm

I saw the original Zorba & really loved it. It is terribly underrated

If you look on Blue Gobo, Bernardi seems to be lethargic doing Life Is but picks up during the second number. If you look closely, he is faking playing the instrument he is holding.

I would love to hear more about their unproduced show Golden Gate.

[jv92]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 11:26pm

There's a scene by scene outline of it in the new book.