La La Land- Page 6

[gypsy101]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:55am

lol a director, that was pretty extreme.

i agree that a jazz musician being black would make sense, as well as being a struggling actress in LA. obviously there are real individuals of those descriptions that are white but there's also a prevalence of less opportunities for non-whites in hollywood.

i stress again that Emma and Ryan were stunning and resplendent in the roles and have a fantastic chemistry and the movie is one of the best i've seen in a very long time.

Updated On: 12/30/16 at 02:55 AM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:56am

seahag2, I think icecreambenjamin was being sarcastic 

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 3:01am

I was serious.

[3NU]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 3:05am

I finally had the chance to catch this film after hearing all the hype about it for, what seems like, the last month.  I'm going to have to agree with some on the board here who found the film to be pleasant enough but thoroughly overrated.

 

First, the pros:

*  This film has absolutely gorgeous cinematography.  The use of colors and selective film editing was well-executed and, at points, breathtaking.

*  The music, while not entirely memorable or hummable, was enjoyable to listen to.  In fact, some of the the individual pieces had enough thematic heft that they could be meaningfully reprised as underscoring in later scenes to great narrative or emotional effect.  (It reminded me of the ingenious ways Crazy Ex-Girlfriend uses reprises to underscore scenes in their episodes...but that's for a whole other discussion.)

*  For those of us living and breathing performing arts -- whether professionally or not -- this film will likely have some sentimental effect on you (it hit me hardest during Emma's final song).

*  While I wasn't a huge fan of the Mia character (she's not well-developed [as this New Yorker film critic noted] and she didn't grow at all), I found Sebastian to be a deeply satisfying character to watch, as he wrestled with the conflict of pursuing "true" art vs. "selling out" and dealing with loss, in its many manifestations throughout the film.  I thought Ryan Gosling did a great job portraying the nuances of this character.

*  The first 45 minutes of the film and the final musical segment may have you floating on cloud 9 -- or at least grinning from ear-to-ear.

 

Yet, despite these strengths, the film has some pretty significant shortcomings:

*  First and foremost, the film felt hyper-choreographed.  Every shot, dance step, and subtitle was so mechanically placed, I could just imagine Damien Chazelle signaling from behind the camera when certain lights would dim only, only to, two seconds later, slowly bring up a spotlight on one of the leads.  It was all very showy and well thought-out, but, ironically, it also caused the loss of that spontaneous magic that makes movie musicals so damn charming in the first place.  For instance, while I may be cognitively aware that the Singin' in the Rain is highly choreographed, I don't feel that way when I watch it.  I cannot say the same about La La Land.  

*  In the same vein as the last bullet point, La La Land's nostalgia felt superficial and formulaic. As one film critic pointed out, there is a "danger of feeling nostalgic for times and places you weren’t alive to experience".

*  The film has tonal inconsistency.  There are many songs shoved into the first 45 minutes of the film, allowing it to flow briskly along.  After that, the songs are placed sporadically, rejiggering the film's pace completely off-kilter from how the movie set out.  Maybe this was intentional, given the changes in the characters' circumstances as the plot moved along, but it still felt weird.  For instance, the musical film The Umbrellas of Cherbourg had fairly major dramatic changes throughout its narrative, but the pacing did not change nearly as significantly as La La Land's did.

*  La La Land is structured in such a way that the two leads pretty much have to carry the entire film.  This is fine, as long as you have strong actors that can do so.  While Ryan and Emma are incredibly charming and have fantastic on-screen chemistry, their dancing was just simply "good" while their singing was merely passable.  While I don't see this as a problem in itself -- I was one of the few (it seemed) people who found Michelle Williams' turn as Sally Bowles on Broadway to be incredibly powerful, despite her lack of strong singing ability -- La La Land's narrative structure doesn't do either of the leads a favor by putting them in a position to be more harshly judged, in light of their singing and dancing, than may be warranted or necessary.

*  I know others had mentioned their disappointment in the film's ending; count me in as one who agrees.  Without spoiling the ending, I'll just say that it didn't feel like Damien Chazelle really committed to a clear idea as to what he wanted to portray at the end of his film.  One only has to look at the disagreements on this board as to the ending's "meaning" to see this as the case.  In fact, it was because Chazelle brought forth such big ideas throughout the film -- especially immediately prior to the film's ending -- that made the non-commitment all the more glaring and unsettling for me.  While some may argue that leaving the ending open for interpretation makes it more interesting, I would contend that Chazelle actually did have an idea he was trying to get across but did so sloppily.

 

All in all, I was glad to see this film, if only to be able to experience it on the big screen with full sound.  However, I would be severely disappointed if it wins a Best Picture Oscar.  The film certainly provides an interesting story, but the massive hype for La La Land seems pretty unwarranted.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 7:39am

Apparently this means I never want to see a movie with a white person again, but I too raised an eyebrow at Ryan Gosling explaining to John Legend the purity of jazz or some bs. Did that alone derail the movie for me? No, but given that this is a story that has been told many a time before, seeing a little diversity here wouldn't have killed anyone- and Legend showing up to sing one song doesn't really count for much. And it's not like Gosling is irreplaceable in it- he's charming and obviously attractive, but he also can barely sing. 

I think part of me feels this way because this will probably win Best Picture over Moonlight, which doesn't tell us a story we've seen a million times before and is actually a better movie! But pretty straight white people make their way through a musical, so throw awards at that. 

Updated On: 12/30/16 at 07:39 AM

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 10:32am

White men know nothing about jazz.  Gershwin was a hack.

[JM226]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 10:41am

Someone in a Tree2 said: "THE MUPPETS-- all live action (albeit with Muppets) and mostly original songs, 2 of which were nominated for Oscars."

 

the muppets' musical score was not completely original --- as you even admit in your post --- and was based on old source material (The Muppets television show)

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 10:42am

Rewatching it, I was startled at the decision to exclude the two leads from even a line of sung dialog in the (kinda wonderful) opening.  It seems inconsistent not to introduce these two -- who as someone noted, must carry the whole film -- as characters who will sing at (subsequent) key moments, and then not begin their singing in that terrific genre-defining sequence.  The song's POV certainly fits both of these frustrated, planetarium crossed lovers.  Why didn't they get to join in?  It could be useful, establishing "I want" moments.  A missed opportunity to make the film more of a piece, though clearly not an egregious lapse. 

[seahag2]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 12:16pm

icecreambenjamin said: "White men know nothing about jazz.  Gershwin was a hack.

 

"

Gershwin was heavily influenced by artists like Sissle & Blake (rip Shuffle Along) and spent time in North Carolina with the Gullah and Geechee people for inspiration to write Porgy and Bess. Black people invented jazz, white people popularized it. 

I don't know why you're making these kinds of comments but they're really immature. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 12:19pm

icecreambenjamin said: "White men know nothing about jazz.  Gershwin was a hack."

Literally not the point I was making. But you don't think it feels a little weird that, other than Gosling, pretty much every other jazz musician we see in the movie is black? 

Some of you seem so troubled by the idea that anyone who isn't white could have played these parts. Again, Gosling was fine. But the point is- this a story that has been told many a time before (and better). Would it have killed them to have either actor played by anyone of color? At this point, it's just revisiting incredibly well-trod ground, which the filmmakers certainly have a right to do. But don't be surprised when people are tired of seeing the same thing hailed as a masterpiece over and over. 

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 12:55pm

I'm sure that people from every spectrum of the rainbow were considered for the role.  If not, then there is a problem.  Gosling and Stone earned those roles and both of them are being heavily considered for Oscar nominations.  The ensemble was extremely diverse and John Legend had a prominent part.  There have be hundreds of famous white jazz musicians over the years and there is absolutely nothing ridiculous about a white man who wants to preserve classic jazz.  Do I think that La La Land should win Best Picture? No.  That belongs to Moonlight, but it is a beautiful and classic film that will probably be around for ages and to have some sort of ridiculous racial debate about this film is absolutely hilarious.  Just enjoy the film for what it is. 

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 12:55pm

You say tomato, I say to-mah-toe, let's call the whole thing off...

:/

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 1:34pm

I think putting aside the racial issue, Gosling's casting was actually pretty genius. He's the only movie star I can think of that radiates the old Hollywood type of charisma that works for this film. Plus I thought his voice suited the music. I was actually more charmed by him than I was Emma Stone, despite her having more to work with. However, I do find it a bit questionable that Chazelle has made two mainstream movies about jazz now, neither of which feature a black protagonist. I read that he considered Michael B. Jordan for the part but I don't think that would have worked as well as Gosling to br fair. 

Someone like Janelle Monae would have been great in Emma's part and would have given more substance to the idea of 'it's hard to make it in Hollywood'. One of the issues I had with the movie is that I found it hard to care about their problems because they seemed so run-of-the-mill. It's hard to make it in Hollywood of course and of course it's hard to balance a relationship with your dreams. But that stuff isn't gonna make me cry and is probably why Emma's Audition left me unmoved. Add in prejudice as a factor and the issues become much more vital. I think it would have been beneficial to have at least one of the couple be non-white, not to fill a quota, but for actual plot purposes.

Updated On: 12/30/16 at 01:34 PM

[RussT2]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:07pm

My boyfriend and I saw the film last week. I loved the music and songs the most, but I thought it was strong in some areas and weak in others. I still applaud them for trying something big and daring, but the movie was good, but not great in my opinion. I do think Lin Manuel Miranda has got a real fight on his hands  because 'Audition (The Fools Who Dream)' should win Best Song at the Oscars.

[mc1227]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:13pm

To add to the discussion regarding casting Gosling, like Broadway, stars are required to sell tickets and Gosling draws moviegoers.  He has the style, looks and edge that this part required and imo, he did a fantastic job considering he is not a singer or dancer by trade.  also, people overlook how difficult it is to pretend to play piano and be believeable doing it.  He was spot on with that much in the way Jessie Mueller was when she portrayed Carole King.  

[maxkko]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:18pm

mc1227 said: "To add to the discussion regarding casting Gosling, like Broadway, stars are required to sell tickets and Gosling draws moviegoers.  He has the style, looks and edge that this part required and imo, he did a fantastic job considering he is not a singer or dancer by trade.  also, people overlook how difficult it is to pretend to play piano and be believeable doing it.  He was spot on with that much in the way Jessie Mueller was when she portrayed Carole King.  "

He didn't fake it. He learned how to play piano for the role. 

[JM226]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:45pm

actually, no. he already knew how to play piano. played it QUITE WELL.  did get about three months of piano training to get to the LA LA LAND level of playing though.  yes -- that was all him. wasn't faking it, people. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:45pm

It is possible to discuss race and still enjoy the movie for what it is. And maybe some other actors were tested, but I think the only two people who were seriously considered for the roles were Emma Watson and Miles Teller. As far as the ensemble goes- sure, the opening number was wonderfully diverse! Good! But that's basically the only time we see them. 

Look- I get it, it's a fluffy movie that's pretty and fun and nice. I'm not saying that it's a racist movie or anything like that, but what bothers me is that this will probably Best Picture over Moonlight. Subjective questions aside, Moonlight is telling a story about black queer men- name the last mainstream movie that dealt with that at all. La La Land is perfectly fine, but right down to the racial politics, it doesn't do anything that movie musicals from the 50s did time and time again. If awards bodies continue to award the same milquetoast stuff, how are other voices supposed to break through? That is why this matters- if we can't expect bigger movies to embrace this, the industry is going to continue to be stagnant. 

[sabrelady]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:56pm

Anyone else think Ryan Gosling's character should have been cast with an African American actor? It just feels really white-savior-y that this white guy's trying to 'save jazz,' a tradition invented by the black community.

 

When that movie is made it will be titled The Wynton Marsalis Story. This is not that movie. Yes it is a meringue  but to borrow an old feminist/socialist quote "we want bread AND roses".

[JM226]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 2:56pm

you cannot blame la la land for a decision made by an award committee. that is not the movie's fault.  your blame should be directed at THE OSCARS 

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 3:24pm

I do see why the Academy would choose this over Moonlight.  La La Land could easily become a classic, shown in homes everywhere during Christmas like the Sound of Music.  However, it is important to help new ideas and subjects prosper and find their way into the mainstream.  If they were to choose Moonlight, it would be a sign of progress, but it probably wouldn't find itself in the realm of classic cinema simply due to it's subject matter (which is ridiculous).  I think that Manchester has the same problem.

I really do think that La La Land, Moonlight, Manchester by the sea, and even Fences are all equally great films that show a step in the right direction for diverse filmaking, so I really wouldn't mind seeing any of them win.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 3:36pm

I'm not blaming the film for anything, but films don't exist in a vacuum, and reaction to this movie will absolutely be colored by the fact that it's probably gonna have Oscars thrown at it. It's the type of thing Hollywood loooooves but it feels hackneyed at this point. I'd still be critical of the film if it started two actors of color, but at least something would be different about it as compared to the thousands before exactly like it. 

[JM226]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 4:27pm

and yet that didnt happen so we have no way to know if you're actually telling the truth or not. oh well!!! fair points though... 

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 4:29pm

JM226 said: "and yet that didnt happen so we have no way to know if you're actually telling the truth or not. oh well!!! fair points though... 

 

"

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[JM226]

Posted: 12/30/16 at 4:34pm

i was talking to wonderfulwizard. i havent addressed you even once in this thread ---- no reason i would start now