Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
#0Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/23/06 at 5:26pm
In June I have seen many musicals that don't have overtures which took me by surprise:
- Spelling Bee
- Sweeney Todd
- Wedding Singer
- Tarzan (?)
I miss 'em. 
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#1re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/23/06 at 5:31pm
Well, the four shows you named are shows that benefit greatly without overtures.
An overture for SPELLING BEE would be entirely out or place.
SWEENEY TODD's overture-less beginning could not be more perfect and necessary - having a classic overture for a show like SWEENEY TODD would negate many of the things that the show itself stands for.
THE WEDDING SINGER has a short interlude, and anything more than that would not only be unnecessary - but boring. There is only one good song in the show, and it opens the first act - I don't think one is necessary.
TARZAN would be pointless as well, since none of the music sounds any different or is any good. An overture would already turn the audience off before they had a chance to hear the whole score. Starting abruptly with the shipwreck is the only reasonably good directorial decision in the old show.
Don't forget contemporary shows that DO, in fact - however short they may be - have overtures.
DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS
BIG RIVER
CATS
THE FULL MONTY
THE LIFE
THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA
SPAMALOT
SEUSSICAL
just to name a few.
etc. etc. etc.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#2re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/23/06 at 5:35pmGawd, not THIS thread again. Ever hear of a search?
#3re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/23/06 at 5:38pmand remember that the original Sweeney does have an overture. It was merely taken out for this stylized production.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
#4re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 3:17amI don't remember an overture for the original "Sweeney Todd". The gravediggers were onstage for about 10 minutes before the show started and then it just... began TWWWWEEEEEEEEEETTTTTT!!!!!! Mum-a-mum-mum-mum-mum...mum-a-mum-mum-mum-mum attend the tale of Sweeny Todd....
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=972787#3631451
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=963561#3533883
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955158#3440952
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954269#3427915
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955012#3441622
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954344#3428699
leefowler
Broadway Star Joined: 7/13/04
#5re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 8:39am
I'm almost relieved when there isn't an overture these days, since most audience member seem to think that it's not part of the ACTUAL show, and insist on talking during it.
Besides, a lot of shows don't need overtures. Who would want an overture for "A Chorus Line"?. How's this for a topic: What current shows don't have an overture, but should?
Behind the fake tinsel of Broadway is real tinsel.
#6re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 8:51am
I love overtures. I really do. Probably way too much for my own good. It's really kind of sad. I'll be driving along in my car, listening to the overture, and then I'll start "conducting" . . . really badly, I'm sure. But MAN is it fun!
Overtures are like taking a refreshing musical shower. I love it.
On the topic of current musicals that should have an overture, but don't, I think Wicked belongs in that camp. I don't know why, but it seems to beg for an overture to me.
#7re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 8:55am
DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS has an INCREDIBLE overture, as does THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA.
And, like it or not- and I do- you're living in a cave if you don't know THE PHANTOM OF THE OEPRA's overture 
"TO LOVE ANOTHER PERSON IS TO SEE THE FACE OF GOD"- LES MISERABLES---
"THERE'S A SPECIAL KIND OF PEOPLE KNOWN AS SHOW PEOPLE... WE'RE BORN EVERY NIGHT AT HALF HOUR CALL!"--- CURTAINS
smilinggiggle
Understudy Joined: 6/20/06
#8re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 8:58amWell Wicked has a mini overture/interlude at the beginning of No One Mourns the Wicked
#9re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 9:10am
That's not an overture. None of the music from the rest of the show is introduced in it. It's a 4-bar (okay, so maybe eight) intro to "No One Mourns The Wicked".
I think an overture for Wicked could be extremely exciting.
and I have to agree with LitP having an amazing overture. Everytime that harp begins to play I just get lost in the world Guettel creates with his music.
#10re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 9:29amLight in the Piazza barely has an overture. The longer version on the CD is much better.
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DG
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/2/05
#11re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 9:37amThe first time I saw PIAZZA, they were still using the full overture, and I was completely transported. By the second viewing, it had been removed, and I missed it terribly.
#12re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 9:43am
WHY did they get rid of it?! *cries*
I seem to recall its being there for the PBS production, but I could have just been too excited to notice the reduction.
#13re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 9:49amI think overtures are innappropriate in shows that have major production numbers as their first song. For instance, Into the Woods, Ragtime, Wicked, Les Miserables all have fairly long first numbers, and placing overtures before would seem like music overload. Back in the days where the first numbers were not huge production numbers, i.e. Gypsy, My Fair Lady, Oklahoma, the overture worked fine because it served as an introduction. Nowadays, the first number serves that purpose.
#14re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 9:55am
Sweeney Todd didn't have a traditional overture in the sense that it played a medley of the show's hits.
The overture was organ music that played grim themes and harsh melodies. This can be heard on the OBC Recording.
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TheEnchantedHunter
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/27/05
#15re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 10:01am
"Besides, a lot of shows don't need overtures. Who would want an overture for "A Chorus Line"?."
Actually, Hamlisch cobbled together an overture but it was never used. However, he conducted the orchestra in a performance of it at the BROADWAY APPLAUDS LINCOLN CENTER benefit some time in the 80s.
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River City, Iowa
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#16re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 11:36am
No,the Piazza overture was not in the PBS production.
I love overtures! I miss them. Of course, I'm an opera fan who is used to sitting through 8 minute long ones. 
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#17re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:02pmI completely agree. I miss overtures. Alot.
#18re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:18pm
Yeah, I heard Hamlisch's shelved "overture" for A Chorus Line. It was dreadful, bloated and endless. It sounded like the curtain would have risen on an overstuffed revival of "Hello, Dolly!" instead. Not exactly the right tone or set-up for launching into the gritty and bare-bones "God I Hope I Get It."
I generally miss overtures too, but think there are valid creative reasons not to have one. But there seems to be a TREND in that direction in general, which has nothing to do with creatively serving a show. And that bugs me a bit. Several shows I've seen lately could have benefited from an "old school" overture.
Too bad most audiences want to get in, get on with it, and get home. I hope that isn't indicative of their "romantic" lives as well!
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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Updated On: 6/24/06 at 12:18 PM
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DG
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/2/05
#19re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:24pm
"Too bad most audiences want to get in, get on with it, and get home."
Which is also being fed by another current trend - one-act musicals (which I abhor.)
#20re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:28pm
Wickedgeek28, you are right. I forgot about the organ. But that was no overture, just a beginning...
As for the lack of an overture, I can understand there not being an overture in some shows, but in others, I wonder if it's not just plain cheapness. The overture must be sketched, arranged, orchestrated and parted, which costs a great deal of money. AND there's the fact that it eats up 4 minutes of time which could cauyse shows to go into the dreaded overtime AND there's the simple fact that with a big brassy overture, your brass players lips get exhausted (I'm not joking about that) so I suppose there are some valid reasons.
I think Lenny Bernstein started all this when he dispensed with the overture before "On The Town" which now has an overture of "PLONK!". Exactly one note.
But I too would love to see an overture before some shows because I love to hear 25 players let rip. The overtures for Gypsy, 42nd Street, No No Nannette, On Your Toes and Guys and Dolls are just thrilling and they set you in the mood to have a good time.
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=972787#3631451
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=963561#3533883
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955158#3440952
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954269#3427915
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955012#3441622
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954344#3428699
#21re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:36pm
The original Sweet Charity overture is amazing. Though in last year's revival they shortened it. I'll never forget the audiences reaction when the Big Spender vamp started, it was a powerful moment. It was just special to see a modern day audience get so into an overture.
Updated On: 6/24/06 at 12:36 PM
mateo
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/8/06
#22re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:43pm
I miss overtures. With some of the classic musicals, the overture is one of the most memorable pieces of music in the whole show.
As far as current musicals go, I adore Hairspray's small "I can hear the Bells" lead-in. Its something I feel should have been incorporated into the OBCR.
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-Adam Shankman.
"I haven't left this building since Windows 3.1!"
"Celebrating a birthday this week: Rene Descartes is 412! Do you know who he is? Then why are you watching this show? You could probably get into college and even get one of those job things. As for the rest of us; Amanda Bynes is 22! Yay!"
-E!'s "The Soup"
#23re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:46pm
Exactly, ljay889. It's a set-up for great things to come (or at least HOPEFULLY great things).
Without it, you're denying audiences that wonderful, emotional anticipation in their minds before a curtain rises. I think can even be a sabbotage, creatively, without it.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 6/24/06 at 12:46 PM
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#24re: Lack of the overture in contemporary musicals
Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:47pmThe beginning organ music in Sweeney Todd is NOT an overture, but a prelude. I'm sure Sondheim knew what he was doing when he titled it so.
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