Local One union boss blew the deal ..so says The NY POST- Page 3

[DoranC]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 8:19pm

"I am assuming you mean other employees who should be getting..."

I mean Non-Local One people directly out work because of the strike and other workers (restaurant, etc.) in the theatre district.

So, does anybody know what Short agreed to that Claffey wouldn't?

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 8:27pm

"you seem to forget that the producers are born gamblers they love taking risk and being reward for it sometimes very highly .."

The producers are actually taking very little risk, most of the time it's the investors who are taking the risk, not the producers. The producers are only risking the investors money, not their own. In the case of the Producer/Theatre Owner the risk is even smaller, because they are guaranteed an income from the rental of the theatre itself, sort of like robbing Peter to pay Paul. The risk that the Producers take is that they might not be able to find investors for future productions, if a particular production fails to pay back the investor.

Very little if any has been heard from the actual investors in these shows about their feelings on the strike and of the actions of the Producers and the stagehands. I can't help but think that the investors might be feeling more than just a little resentment that the League is playing fast and loose with their investments. How can you justify letting negotiations break-down to a group of people who put a great deal of money up for the Producers to use to mount the productions and a great deal of faith in those Producers that their money would be handled wisely.

Ending negotiations is not wise and continuing a strike or lockout is not in anyway a prudent way to treat the investors. As it stands, right now the investors entered into their investment agreements with the old rules in effect, and somehow saw fit to invest, knowing those risk.

Updated On: 11/19/07 at 08:27 PM

[Anakela]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 9:48pm

So Claffey himself seems to confirm the basics of Post article, but worded a little differently? From tomorrow's Times:

Asked how he got along with Mr. Short, Mr. Claffey said, “We have a business relationship.”

But the two men are not close beyond that? “That’s a fair statement,” Mr. Claffey said.

Then, referring to Mr. Short, but not by name, he said: “The international president was more willing to agree to things to end the labor dispute. I need to make sure my people are represented the best way I can do.”
Speaking Up for the Stagehands

[localonecrew]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 9:56pm

"Localonecrew - any person with a modicum of intelligence will read your last diatribe, filled with the most specious name-calling, and know exactly what kind of person is posting. You "gain nothing with the name-calling other than making yourself look like a bullyboy who cannot post without sullying someone else - you've done it to me, and you've done it to others. You make some of the fourteen year olds on this site seem like mature reasoned individuals by comparison. Bravo to you. "

step one: i attempt to provide you with some information.

step two: you become insulting about it.

step three: i take you to task for being insulting when i am just trying to share some info that might help you understand what is going on.

step four: you take umbrage at being called out.



any others on this board that i have been rude to have either: been continuously dense and keep arguing something that has already been explained 1000 times, or have been insulting towards my profession, or have made defamatory remarks about my local while being ignorant of what it is we actually do.

[jazzicat]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 10:59pm

I'm sorry a lot of us support your desire to do better for your families, but even if we are sympathetic-- I know many of us do not support the strike. Many of us can get fired for raising the tiniest bit of concern at our jobs. We all work long hours and don't have secure retirement plans. Most of us in our 20s don't even know what a pension is and will be working until we are way into our 70s when social security runs out. Many of us work 12 hour days and we have no idea what a lunch break or overtime is. I laugh at your meal breaks. I haven't had a real lunch at work in years. Unfortunately, this strike hits a lot of us hard because Broadway is our passion. It's hard to sympathize when we work so hard ourselves and this strike is so greatly affecting one of the things we love most. Not all of us on the board are actors. I understand wanting a piece of the pie and fighting for your rights. However, I think striking is a dirty tactic, and in the end it does more harm than good. Why impact the entire city of NY just to prove a point? Also, I'm sorry but we are lucky that the producers still see theatre as a viable way of making money. It certainly isn't the easiest way to make a buck these days.

[bk]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 11:07pm

I don't believe I'm the one who's been insulting - scroll back and read your post. And then go back to a few other threads and read your posts. Then read mine. I haven't called you a moron or any of the other names you used. And you are "explaining" things from your point of view. I'm listening, and also questioning because there is another point of view, not just yours. You are fooling no one other than yourself. And lest you forget, you played this incredibly childish game with me, which I, in retrospect, stupidly allowed you to play - and, of course, when I revealed who I was you just got more insulting and, typically, didn't reveal who you were in return and continued to post behind your cloak of anonymity, which I find as cowardly as it gets.

As I said, you may continue to bask in your bile and you may continue to call me a sock puppet for the League even though you know it not to be true. That marks you lousy, I'm afraid.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 11:12pm

"Many of us can get fired for raising the tiniest bit of concern at our jobs. We all work long hours and don't have secure retirement plans. Most of us in our 20s don't even know what a pension is and will be working until we are way into our 70s when social security runs out. Many of us work 12 hour days and we have no idea what a lunch break or overtime is. I laugh at your meal breaks. I haven't had a real lunch at work in years."

All of the above are reasons why unions are important and still needed.

Updated On: 11/19/07 at 11:12 PM

[ShowtuneRick]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 11:45pm

Localoneguy, all I know is that I'm not collecting a paycheck right now while many stagehands are being allowed to leave the picket line to work load-ins for other venues. (concerts, big events) It's great that Local One has the luxury of still bringing in a salary while forcing the rest of the people working on a broadway show to just wait it out with no pay.

[bugmenot]

Posted: 11/19/07 at 11:56pm

ShowtuneRick: if you are currently employed on a broadway show, your union will have financial assistance available for you. Depending on the union, that assistance may be coming, 100%, from Local One.

to the other poster who said that they don't get meal breaks or can be fired for raising concern at their job, etc. and we should end the strike because of that: let me present an alternative view: stand up for yourself. Stand up for what is right. If your employer is walking all over you, why would you work there? I am lucky that I have a union with a hundred years of history watching out for me and setting standard wages and working conditions in the workplace. I work in an industry where the employers have a long, long history of being horribly abusive to their employees, and being thieving bastards, to boot. Theater used to be an all-cash business, because the presenters would routinely skip out on their bills and everyone knew they couldn't be trusted. Today we have electronic bookkeeping and guarantee bonds. But the people running things are still the same shady breed they were a hundred years ago. Don't be fooled.

[Marianne]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:01am

However, I think striking is a dirty tactic, and in the end it does more harm than good. Why impact the entire city of NY just to prove a point?

If the past few days have shown anything, it's that the League is just as willing to shut down Broadway as Local One is--for all that the union was the first to make a drastic move, it's the League that's been threatening a lockout since October, the League that has just cancelled this week's performances, and the League that's locked the stagehands out of Grinch. So yeah, the work stoppage sucks, but I think both sides are equally to blame for that, and neither gives a damn how many tourists lose their tickets as long as they get to have their little pissing contest.

[leko2]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:33am

jazzicat: what state do you work in?

[ShowtuneRick]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:38am

Bugmenot, the "assistance" doesn't even cover my rent.

I also agree that neither side cares about who else is being affected. Pray folks...pray.

[dreamz]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 1:17am

ShowtuneRick if you are a union member in good standing you can go to the union for help with your rent. You can also open up an unemployment claim in case this goes on longer. If you are a Jujamcyn employee you can call JTAP for help also.

[bugmenot]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 1:28am

> I also agree that neither side cares
> about who else is being affected.

believe me, the local one members care. I've already signed over half of my first strike benefit check to BC/EFA. I will probably sign over the other half to St Malachy's or somebody else in the neighborhood.

[amasis]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 10:53am

Why impact the entire city of NY just to prove a point?

Is that what's happening? They're just "proving a point?"

And just as JAG said, everything you described about your work place is the reason some workers organized into a union.

By the way, the following article might be of interest to some.

'These aren’t strikes to explore new territory, but rather to protect past gains — to prevent deterioration in working conditions and job security,” said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. “All this shows that management is getting stronger and much more confrontational.”'


On Strike to Protect the Gains of the Past, With an Eye on the Future

[CJR]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 11:01am

This has little to do with anything, but I had to post this cause it made me laugh. I called Murdoch a douche in this thread yesterday and then I read this on overheard in NY today.... Im not the only one who thinks he's a douche. lmao

Rupert Murdoch, at conference: If you wanted to stalk a young girl, it'd be much easier to do on Facebook than MySpace.
Conference attendee: Douche chill...

--Grand Hyatt Hotel

Updated On: 11/20/07 at 11:01 AM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 11:30am

Could I please get some clarification here?

If Thomas Short, the head of IATSE, Local 1's parent union who is responsible for thousands of stagehands across the country and is by all accounts no friend of management or the theatre owners involved here, looked at the League's final offer Sunday and thought it was a a solid compromise and a good deal to sign, what was so wrong with that offer that made Claffey reject it and continue the strike that is continuing to shut down most of Broadway, hurting untold thousands of people?

Updated On: 11/20/07 at 11:30 AM

[claudia2]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 11:41am

Margo - I agree. I don't understand it either. They really have to understand the impact of this situation and come up with a fair deal.

[massofmen]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 11:42am

its because Claffey went to a harvard class on negotiation so now he knows what he is doing. Gimme a break. Man didn't even go to college, (EDUCATION: Graduate of West Milford High School in New Jersey; the Cornell University Labor Studies Certificate Program; and the Program on Negotiation at the Harvard Law School.) and he is negotiating this? you have got to be kidding me.

I think this is it. Claffey thinks that if he gives away these jobs (the ones not needed but still get paid for) its a slippery slope to losing tons of control that Local 1 has right now. Local 1 knows that they have easy jobs for incredible amounts of money. and YES i said easy. moving tables, focusing spotlights and pulling fly rails up and down are EASY JOBS in comparison to digging holes, computer programming, and engineering a BRIDGE to go over a river.

Claffey knows that he is in an incredibly tough spot where members will lose out and his union will start to go to shambles when these jobs are lost. Because, like non eq tours, work weeks will suffer because there isn't enough money coming in to the union concerning dues and their health insurance will be harder to pay for and so on. He knows all this, and he sees the writing on the wall. The problem is, he is negotiating with his heart instead of his head. NO logic involved here. All union crap, and its gonna get worse.

[billynj]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 11:57am

Massofmen - well said

just watch this claffey guy twist words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ct9PvXjOw&feature=related

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 11:59am

I have to say, I wasn't really taking sides in this strike until this debacle Sunday night. If the frigging head of IATSE thinks its a good deal for the stagehands and Claffey still rejects it, then sorry, I don't have any sympathy for Local One's position anymore.

[localonecrew]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:03pm

short wasnt looking for a good deal, he was looking to be able to say that he saved bway. remember, short is such a great union man that he told us to cross the musicians line when they were on strike. we of course didnt and he has hated us ever since.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:04pm

"YES i said easy. moving tables, focusing spotlights and pulling fly rails up and down are EASY JOBS in comparison to digging holes, computer programming, and engineering a BRIDGE to go over a river."

That is one of the most UNEDUCATED statements I have read in the past week and a half. Until you actually have done any of that, don't speak of what you don't know.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:18pm

localonecrew--

Well, specifically, what was so wrong about the offer Short approved of that Claffey rejected? It seemed like a great deal of progress had been made, but it still wasn't enough for him.

[bugmenot]

Posted: 11/20/07 at 12:59pm

For the sake of accuracy, the final exchange was the Local's negotiating team bringing a counter-offer to the table, the league looking at it, saying "it's not enough" and then walking out.

As I understand the situation, there was NOT a comprehensive, signable deal on the table when the League walked out. They were still exchanging proposals. To say there was a full deal on the table that Short was behind and Claffey was not is at least misleading, if not just plain untrue. That version of events appears to have originated from Michael Riedel, so draw your own conclusions.

I don't personally know why Short left, but I have to say after reading the letter he wrote to the WGA (I'll link it below), I'm kind of glad he did.

Does this sound familiar? This is regarding the WGA negotiations, quoted from Variety (bold emphasis is mine):

Both sides remain at odds over how negotiations ended on Nov. 4 with each accusing the other of causing the talks to collapse. Young noted in the message that the AMPTP has asserted when negotiations collapsed an offer was on the table to pay writers for Internet streaming.

“This is misleading,” he added. “What they don’t say is that it was merely a partial offer, and there was nothing else but rollbacks on the table when they left. They have yet to deliver an economic proposal after three and a half months of our requesting one. We have presented them with ours, but they still refuse to negotiate.”

http://weblogs.variety.com/wga_strike_blog/2007/11/you-think-youve.html Short's letter to WGA

and

http://weblogs.variety.com/wga_strike_blog/2007/11/verrone-has-his.html
WGA's Verrone's response

But really, it doesn't matter what He Said / She Said. What's important now is for the sides to get back to the table so everyone can get back to work.