Major flaw of "The Pirate Queen"

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 1:01pm

My very-Irish English professor pointed out something extremely interesting.

In that time period, a woman would never have the name "O'Malley". They were not allowed to be referred to by their last names at all and were referred to by first and middle and Gaelic names. It was so interesting to hear her talk about it.

[D2]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 1:07pm

So I guess they should just stop working on the book, the music, the lyrics, the direction, etc... because it's doomed to fail from that MAJOR flaw?

Updated On: 3/3/07 at 01:07 PM

[msls777]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 1:23pm

First off, there's no doubting that her last name was O'Malley. That said, I don't remember a point in the musical when someone referred to her as O'Malley. In fact, except for saying "Clan O'Malley" I don't even recall people addressing Dubdhara as O'Malley. They usually refer to her as Grania or in some cases, Grace, which I assume is "correct" by your Professor's standards. So, according to your Professor, they shouldn't refer to her as O'Malley. Well, they don't--at least to my recollection, and thus, it's not really a "flaw." Even if they did, as evident by D2's sarcasm, it really wouldn't matter much.

With that, though the story is historically based, a lot of it is fiction. I haven't read the novel so someone can confirm this for me or correct me, but I believe that Tigernan was meant more to be a "conglomeration" of Grania's lovers. Plus, the musical didn't even use the correct name "Tigernan"--but rather, Tiernan. And with that scene where Grania defeats an English fleet after giving birth to a child, I don't think they're exactly going for historical or significant accuracy, since, well, that'd be pretty darn incredible if it did happen.

[kec]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 2:03pm

I think a clan chieftan was referred to as "The O'Malley," (or some other Irish/Scottish last name). Which may be what the op was referring to.

[Dibbledl01]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 3:50pm

msis, you're partially correct. I don't have the novel "The Pirate Queen" but I have another novel by an author who went to Europe and wrote about all her research about various European legends of female sailors and warriors. According to her (and please mind my memory.. ) Grace married about 2 or 3 times and even fell in love with a young sailor who was killed by her enemies and she did raise hell about it. To my memory "Tiernan" never, ever existed. Her first two husbands were killed and I believe she died a widower.
But, the scene where she defeated a ship after giving birth to a child did happen. She gave birth and then the following day her ship was attacked and she got up and faught them off despite her weakness. (but I have heard rumors they removed that scene??) She was one hell of a woman known across the nation for her drinking, cursing, and her free sexual habits...She even slept with a rope attached to her favorite ship in her fleet attached to the post of her bed, just in case it decided to sail off somewhere :-P

[Weez]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 4:18pm

You're quite right! This is a MAJOR flaw! First, we must hunt down all the historians who wrote about Grania and give them what for, then we must hunt down Morgan Llywelyn and show her the sharp end of my stick, then we need to have STERN WORDS with Boublil and Schoenberg!

I honestly have NO IDEA how I'm possibly going to find any enjoyment out of seeing this production later this month now that you've informed me of this enormous show-wrecking error. ;_;

Updated On: 3/3/07 at 04:18 PM

[D2]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 4:22pm

msls777: And you call me sarcastic?

Updated On: 3/3/07 at 04:22 PM

[bella cantato]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 4:36pm

I would hardly call that a "major flaw" ...

[BDrischBDemented]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 5:52pm

So now if it fails, at least we will know the true reason.

[defyingravity11]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 5:58pm

:) hehe

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:03pm

ohemgee. close the show!

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:20pm

Okay, i agree, ahrdly a major flaw. And, as I love Boublil and Schoenburg, I won't complain. But...

As (I believe) the only fluent Irish speaker on the board, I would like to throw in my two cents. I'm not sure what you mean by 'First', 'Middle' and 'Gaelic' name. In Irish (and when I say irish, I mean what you lot over there call Gaelic), we have first names and surnames, just like English. The point I have is that her surname should, in fact, not be O'Malley at all. In Irish, a Man's surname would begin O', like mine, O'Loinn. A woman's would begin with 'Ni' or 'Nic', for example Sorcha Ni Broinn (Sarah Brian. In English, it probably would be written O'Brien). Other surnames begin with Mc or Mac, such as McDermott or MacDowell, and so the women's versions might begin with Mhic.

So, another spanner is thrown in the works!

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:38pm

Okay, I don't mean I can't enjoy it, I mean in the writing of it. I just found it interesting. Yeesh.

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:44pm

theatertrash- this is BWW, you shoulda known we would've ridiculed you and torn your thread to shreds DUH

[JustChillin8908]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:47pm

I don't think people would have been so critical if you hadn't called it a "Major flaw."

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:47pm

I didn't mind it, I got a chance to show off some knowledge of my native language!

Ta mise sasta go leor, bhi me in ann mo chuid gaeilge a usaid!

Sorry, too far!

[Weez]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:52pm

I'm English, you guys will NEVER out-sarcasm me!

And indeed, the only reason I felt the need to tease so was because I was amused by the phrasing "major flaw". If it had been "interesting factoid", I would have been much kinder. :3

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 7:55pm

Is feidir liomsa aon rud a ra fuibhse agus nil clu agaibh! Haha, oh, ta seo ar fhabhas! Is fuath liom sibh ar fad! Pog me thon mor dubh! haha, nilim ach ag magadh!

Ha, you have no idea what that meant! Oh, language rules!

[p.s.]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 8:58pm

In the actual history of it, did they dance like that?


p.s. How about in the novel?

[dramaqueen2]

Posted: 3/3/07 at 9:05pm

that wasn't very nice, now was it, vmlinnie.

[kelzama]

Posted: 3/4/07 at 9:13am

A quick search on google shows her irish name to be Gráinne Ní Mháille, and one source says she "wouldn't have cared for" the polite English translation of Grace O'Malley.

Meaningful to the Irish, not so much to the rest of us. So perhaps rather than being a major flaw, it's simply a way of allowing us non-irish speakers a way of pronouncing her name. After all, historically the English tried their best to squelch out the native Irish language, and almost succeeded.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 3/4/07 at 9:35am

It's ONLY major flaw is that they actually created this boring beast. Who in their right mind thinks this will remotely have a long run?

As I stated numerous times before -- I saw the show in Chicago and there isn't one remotely interesting storyline to bring in an audience's attention. I take it that most were expecting The Stephanie J. Block ABC TV Hour, but unfortunately, it isn't.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 3/4/07 at 9:48am

Um, vmlinnie, do you think you could translate that from Gaelic to English?

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 3/4/07 at 10:21am

When I saw PIrate Queen in Chicago I thought its major flaw was Act 2.

In just a few days we'll start getting opinions from people who've actually seen the NY revisions. Although I'm no Irish scholar, I thought it would have helped with character focus if the Irish had referred to her as Grania and the Brits had called her "Grace O'Malley". This is only one of the reasons that I couldn't stand Dubdhara singing "My Grace".

[JRybka]

Posted: 3/4/07 at 11:11am

Just be thankful this isn't an Iclandic musical or we would all be in a lot of trouble with the dottirs and ssons....