Posted: 11/4/24 at 9:13pm
Ask anyone associated with "Company" about the 2 and half days of "sensitivity training" post-covid and they will tell you that Patti LuPone did in fact consider herself the most "marginalized" of the company because she grew up being a "theater nerd"
Posted: 11/4/24 at 9:14pm
Putting aside of who is wrong or right in this, or microaggresions, is this really the first time of all Broadway history that one show speaks to another about sound being too loud? Bc I find that hard to believe.
Roomates producer in post say it happens all the time . Just never been made public
Posted: 11/4/24 at 9:37pm
Bill Snibson said: "This all could've and should've been handled differently but then again we are dealing with Patti. This whole thing feels very "textbook" Patti LuPone. Her show has opened and all the glitz and glamour has faded away. No more press appearances etc. The show is now just up and running which bores Patti and forces her and her ego to lash out in some way to get back in the zeitgeist and get people talking abouther. We have "Who do you think you are?", "Chris Harper pays my salary!", "I've resigned my Equity card" and now this. She is wildly talented but oh soepically exhausting."
She was on The View last week and will be on Watch What Happens Live this week.
Posted: 11/4/24 at 9:40pm
“Patti called the Shuberts” is at this point is still hearsay and corroborated by no other source.
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:17pm
Yes and will be talking negatively about whatever subject they present. I'm certain that Patti loved being cast as Norma, loved the rehearsal process, loved the show on the West End until everything went akimbo and suddenly it is the worst show ever written!
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:23pm
Bill Snibson said: "I'm certain that Patti loved being cast as Norma, loved the rehearsal process, loved the show on the West End until everything went akimbo and suddenly it is the worst show ever written!"
Have you read her memoir? Because that's certainly not the impression I got.
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:24pm
Bill Snibson said: "Yes and will be talking negatively about whatever subject they present. I'm certain that Patti loved being cast as Norma, loved the rehearsal process, loved the show on the West End until everything went akimbo and suddenly it is the worst show ever written!"
You appear to be personally traumatized by something that Patti has done in the past. Please reach out to a mental health services professional assp.
It. Gets. Better.
Updated On: 11/4/24 at 10:24 PM
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:25pm
CreatureKitchen said: "Bill Snibson said: "I'm certain that Patti loved being cast as Norma, loved the rehearsal process, loved the show on the West End until everything went akimbo and suddenly it is the worst show ever written!"
Have you read her memoir? Because that's certainly not the impression I got.
"
Her memoir was written after … The Great Embitterment.
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:34pm
Strange Lupone said: "+Her memoir was written after … The Great Embitterment."
Yes, but she does bring up examples of how things were going south from the beginning. I mean, you could argue she made it all up, but she is pretty detailed about being unhappy with Really Useful Group's actions from the jump and does share specific stories from the process.
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:38pm
Thanks. Will do. And you all keep supporting her disgusting behavior.
Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:39pm
Oh my god, this thread is already ridiculous enough. Why are we litigating completely unrelated events from Patti's life, now?
Posted: 11/5/24 at 12:23am
I’m glad someone brought up performance reports in another post, I forgot to mention that- however, ask any SM in the business actors do not get that information it goes to the creatives and production staff- many actors would be displeased if they knew some of what is documented in them. It’s disturbing to me that many here are bringing up that videos have been carefully cut and things omitted from one side of this conversation which seems very disingenuous- telling half truths to bolster how you feel and using it as evidence to the same doesn’t jive for me personally- feelings aren’t facts. There is a very easy way both teams could put this to rest, but not without involving the actresses at this point which is why I feel like the statement issued will probably be the last. Patti, for all her faults, is a smart woman and will certainly not add fuel to the fire. If I was her I wouldn’t engage further not even on a personal one on one level with Kecia because who’s to say a private conversation won’t be made public virally, there’s a level of distrust built into this now.
Updated On: 11/5/24 at 12:23 AM
Posted: 11/5/24 at 1:11am
verywellthensigh said: "Maybe Patti LuPone was just being glib and thoughtless when she refused to sign the Playbill. It certainly seems to be her way.
Was there any other public remark from Patti besides it? True, she should know she's likely being filmed. But also, perhaps it was tossed off, glib and bratty thing to say. (Also, why would she sign that musical's playbill?)
Other than that, it seems to have been entirely internal and handled diplomatically. Why couldn't Lewis send Patti a note expressing her feelings? Why must it have been put on blast and public?
Posted: 11/5/24 at 4:08am
Patti Lupone has several versions of several of her stories, that she wheels out depending on the occasion.
Sometimes her Evita orchestra rehearsal story is told as (paraphrased) that she and Mandy were having such a great time, they were singing so loudly over the orchestra and members of the production team were trying to get them to push less, lest they blow out their voices but she and Mandy were on cloud nine and voiding stop…
Sometimes the story is that they should have been warned, nobody warned them and it’s the production’s fault she blew out her voice.
She has told both versions publicly.
I know people from the original Sunset cast. Whilst Lupone may have had trepidation, it was a fun process at the beginning and she was indeed enjoying it. Retconning the situation so that she was mistreated from the moment she stepped off the plane is another one of her variations of history
The same woman who was desperate to be loved by Sondheim and was trash talking him on late night TV days after his death
Posted: 11/5/24 at 7:25am
its always funny to me how the people hurling accusations of racism then downplay the gravity of the accusation. its OUTRAGEOUS to accuse someone of being a racist based on asking for an adjusted sound cue--its unfair to the person being accused, and also to those actually suffering the indignity of racist behavior.
this thread belongs in a museum- people bending over backwards to try and contextualize why Kecia Lewis said a whole lot of fact-free nonsense, and lectures about why Patti Lupone is actually a very bad lady that only confirm her diva behavior has nothing to do with racial animus whatsoever.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 8:34am
Give me claws and a hunch — just away from this bunch!
Posted: 11/5/24 at 9:34am
I think this is the truth, at the core, and is an issue throughout society right now. This has nothing to do about how the situation was handled (which I personally - someone who believes direct face to fact conversation will always be better than either public statements or even off-handed remarks to another person, not involved) but has to do with anyone telling another person how they should feel. This is continually done - how a black person ought to feel, how a Jewish person out to feel, how a Muslin person ought to feel. People always lead with, Oh I didn't mean it that way or It wasn't racist/antisemitic/Islamophobic. No one should ever invalidate another person. But again, that has nothing to do with how this was handled. But let's look at the bigger issue that goes beyond this scuffle. We can only learn and grow if we actually talk to each other directly. No one should ever have such privilege to stand on a pedestal and talk about or judge anyone else without walking first walking in their shoes.
Updated On: 11/5/24 at 09:34 AM
Posted: 11/5/24 at 10:09am
But again, that has nothing to do with how this was handled. But let's look at the bigger issue that goes beyond this scuffle. We can only learn and grow if we actually talk to each other directly.
...which is exactly what Kecia Lewis declined to do when she decided to take this public. So who's not listening to whom?
It has everything to do with how it was handled. This thread is full of people bending over backward to say Lewis was right and Lupone saying the show is loud is a microaggression. I've seen too little discussion of the other word Lewis inanely throws around: bullying.
Patti Lupone (if it was her as Lewis claims without proof and not the production) asking the landlord to ask the Hell's Kitchen sound crew not to be so loud that it interferes in the neighboring theater is "bullying."
Patti Lupone having flowers sent as a thank you is "bullying."
Patti Lupone making a comment to a third party--not to anyone at HK--who will likely never encounter anyone with the show, and thus HK will never be affected, is "bullying."
Nonsense. That is not bullying. You know what is? Weaponizing social media to get your friends and followers to attack someone, which is what anyone who's been on the planet the past twenty years knows happens when you blast someone on social media like this. It's the only reason to post this publicly instead of handling it privately.
Kecia Lewis is not only a clout-seeking narcissist, she's a bully and a complete hypocrite.
Updated On: 11/5/24 at 10:09 AM
Posted: 11/5/24 at 10:43am
The thing about feelings is we feel things and have personal conflict with others all the time. Part of any conflict involves communication and making sure there has not been a misunderstanding from either side first or an alternative explanation. Just because we feel our partner has wronged us doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true they wronged us or that they wronged us for the reasons we think they did. Same for a friend, or a co-worker, or a random on the street.
One of the problems I perceive with our culture today is that we ignore the above and pretend it isn’t necessary now when it comes to certain types of grievances with minority groups. But this doesn’t eliminate the reality that there can be misunderstandings or alternative explanations, which seems like the most likely scenario we are in. And the way the discussion goes is that no one is allowed to challenge or question and we have to accept all of the ideas as reality, even when we can see clearly that there is more going on here. It feels like a religious dogma response we have to accept and not a good faith discussion. At best it’s frustrating, at worst it actually is dangerous and has real negative outcomes. For example, the Great Comet job losses or in this case the reputation of the actors involved.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 11:44am
MemorableUserName said: "But again, that has nothing to do with how this was handled. But let's look at the bigger issue that goes beyond this scuffle. We can only learn and grow if we actually talk to each other directly.
...which is exactly what Kecia Lewis declined to do when she decided to take this public. So who's not listening to whom?
It has everything to do with how it was handled. This thread is full of people bending over backward to say Lewis was right and Lupone saying the show is loud is a microaggression. I've seen too little discussion of the other word Lewis inanely throws around: bullying.
Patti Lupone (if it was her as Lewis claims without proof and not the production) asking the landlord to ask the Hell's Kitchen sound crew not to be so loud that it interferes in the neighboring theater is "bullying."
Patti Lupone having flowers sent as a thank you is "bullying."
Patti Lupone making a comment to a third party--not to anyone at HK--who will likely never encounter anyone with the show, and thus HK will never be affected, is "bullying."
Nonsense. That is not bullying. You know what is? Weaponizing social media to get your friends and followers to attack someone, which is what anyone who's been on the planet the past twenty years knows happens when you blast someone on social media like this. It's the only reason to post this publicly instead of handling it privately.
Kecia Lewis is not only a clout-seeking narcissist, she's a bully and a complete hypocrite."
If I didn’t make myself clear, I apologize. I am actually not agreeing or disagreeing with any one person in this matter. I don’t think it was handled properly at all.All I am saying is we could accomplish a lot more if we simply spoke to each other rather than jump onto social media or make offhanded comments.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 12:01pm
Here's a quick top ten list of books I would like to offer to most people on this thread who seems dead set on disagreeing with Kecia and also telling the two Black people on this thread what is and isn't racist. And telling us how ridiculous we are for repeatedly stating what is a fact about something as base as a microaggression. Again, the cis white gay male energy of this board is on full display. It reminds me of Dr. Kings quote in the letter from a Birmingham jail about the white moderate. Now, at least on this board, it's the white gay man, who has become one of our biggest stumbling blocks to equality. (Not to mention Gays for Trump, let's not go there) What I mean by that is the need to deny experiences of Black people and not uphold Black women voices, repeatedly. To hold both marginalization of being queer and the privilege of whiteness for all the comfort and protections that are inherently there.
I hope especially in the spirit of this day and in the hope of the First Woman President who is also a Black Woman, if you care to learn and sit in some uncomfortable truths and challenge yourselves and take off the cloak of privilege and the blinders of comfort I offer the following books...
White Fragility:Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism by Robin diAngelo
How To Be An Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi
White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide by Carol Anderson
What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Blacker by Damon Young
So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo
Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? by Beverly Daniel Tatum
How to Be Less Stupid About Race: On Racism, White Supremacy, and the Racial Divide by Crystal M. Fleming
Whiteness and Morality: Pursuing Racial Justice through Reparations and Sovereignty by Jennifer Hardy
The Possessive Investment in Whiteness: How White People Profit From Identity Politics by George Lipsitz.
Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America by Ibram X. Kendi
Shout-out to Kecia Lewis doing what Black women always do, speaking truth to power, being a force of nature, and standing up for what is right. When We FIGHT WE WIN!!!!
Posted: 11/5/24 at 12:10pm
You are asking people to accept that Patti is a racist because her production team asked a show that is objectively loud to see if they could turn the volume down a little and also because she described the show as loud, which is objectively true. You can use that nice language and say "Speaking Truth to Power" all you want but this is not truth. That is YOUR truth, but it is not THE truth. And we are talking about THE truth. In other words, what is objectively happening not what is going on inside your minds. Just because something is going inside your mind doesn't make it actually true.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 12:13pm
Nothing in the DiAngelo/Kendi approach to race has proven to be effective in combatting racism. All it's done is fatten the wallets of the consultancy class and increase white guilt, which does nothing.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 12:25pm
binau said: "You are asking people to accept that Patti is a racist because her production team asked a show that is objectively loud to see if they could turn the volume down a little and also because she described the show as loud, which is objectively true. You can use that nice language and say "Speaking Truth to Power" all you want but this is not truth. That is YOUR truth, but it is not THE truth. And we are talking about THE truth. In other words, what is objectively happening not what is going on inside your minds. Just because something is going inside your mind doesn't make it actually true."
No I am not asking you to accept that Patti is racist. I am asking you to understand that her actions were microaggressive because of who they were against. The context of the spilling sound does not matter, because of the phrasing she used and the stereotypes inherent in that phrase of being "TOO LOUD". I'm saying it was unconscious bias, and white privilege which does NOT mean she is racist. You don't have to BE A RACIST to exhibit racist behavior.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 12:27pm
verywellthensigh said: "Nothing in the DiAngelo/Kendi approach to race has proven to be effective in combatting racism. All it's done is fatten the wallets of the consultancy class and increase white guilt, which does nothing."
Categorically false and untrue, there are many white people I know personally who have learned and made real growth and progress from many of those books. White guilt is okay if used for fueled and put into action to make the world a better place. It would no longer be guilt then but active energy used to DO SOMETHING to make the world more equitable.
Updated On: 11/5/24 at 12:27 PM
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