Phantom Closing? — Page 53

Were they supposed to let him finish the show, though? With poor vocals and weird acting choices?

I get him feeling tossed out after 3 years...that's fair if he was fired/asked not to return...but it was also clear he couldn't end the show according to everyone's expectations.

Just finished a fascinating two-part oral history of Phantom on Broadway and in London from The Theatre Times. Lots of great stories about the Majestic in Part I.

https://thetheatretimes.com/the-house-where-phantom-lived-part-i-the-majestic-theatre-new-york/

In Part II, James Paterson, an Original London Cast member of Phantom and long-time resident director at Her Majesty's, gives a lot of great insight, including his thoughts on Love Never Dies and the desecration of Maria's designs:

"...like taking Van Gogh’s Sunflowers and deciding to make the petals purple!"

"The original show of Phantom in Production and Design is an iconic piece of Art and it should not be interfered with! Make new ones if you must, but leave the original be!"

https://thetheatretimes.com/the-house-where-phantom-lived-part-ii-her-majestys-theatre-london/

TBFL said: "
I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Then your friend is misinformed (which wouldn't be surprising, since RUG is frequently clueless). Hal had definitely visited the London production as late as 2017. He may have visited in 2018 but I don't know if he had been in London that year. Is your friend at RUG aware Hal died in 2019? A bit of a big ask to expect Hal to visit after that.

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs". I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

MCSecaur said: Just finished a fascinating two-part oral history of Phantom on Broadway and in London from The Theatre Times.

It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour.

Updated On: 4/22/23 at 06:51 PM

Penna2 said: "

There seems to be some idea by those complaining about the show closing that there is some obligation to keep it open because people are going to be unemployed. When you work in show business that's the name of the game - looking for the next job because the one you have carries a time stamp of some sort. No job is guaranteed, particularly in theater, and those who worked for this show were particularly fortunate to have such a high level of job security."

I think those involved, including the girl you mention, know shows close when they lose money. It's the teasing of the scaled-down revival so incredibly soon without leaving time for the dust to settle that has got everyone's backs up, since it simply suggests that they are going through the motions of what happened in London in 2020. And, as the composer and co-producer has said, that isn't necessary.

As she says in her Instagram post, it's 'bittersweet'. Or even 'sorry grateful', I guess.

But I agree with you about Ben Crawford. The posts were bizarre and I have no idea why he thought they were a good idea.

The Scorpion said: "TBFL said: "
I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Then your friend is misinformed (which wouldn't be surprising, since RUG is frequently clueless). Hal had definitely visited the London production as late as 2017. He may have visited in 2018 but I don't know if he had been in London that year. Is your friend at RUG aware Hal died in 2019? A bit of a big ask to expect Hal to visit after that.

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs". I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

MCSecaur said:Just finished a fascinating two-part oral history of Phantom on Broadway and in London fromThe Theatre Times.

It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour."




No, sorry. You didn't say "there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic," you said "there is, or was, a lot of anger backstage the Majestic that that community was torn apart for no good reason other than for Cameron Mackintosh and Really Useful to open the show and hire newbies to do their jobs."

This has a completely different implication re the atmosphere backstage AND implies CM/RUG closing the show for no good reason.

The atmosphere was fine. When ANY show closes, a percent of those involved in it will be unhappy, vent a bit online and will question if it needs to happen - that's human nature for a theatrical ecosystem. Your two quotes, outside of a scientific survey mean nothing. There are probably over 200 cast, crew, FOH, backstage, creatives etc etc involved/connected with the Broadway show. So all you've done is show 1% odd might have been unhappy. Big deal.

I maintain your sweeping statement is completely incorrect. In fact all your posts just sound like you have a personal grudge against ALW and CM and you (mis)interpret everything in a not particularly convincing attempt to convince others to feel the same way.

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 11:32 AM

We should all be lucky to have defenders as loyal and relentless as Cameron Mackintosh has in this thread.

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?

Penna2 said: "MemorableUserName said: "We should all be lucky to have defenders as loyal and relentless as Cameron Mackintosh has in this thread.

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?"

Without Cameron MacIntosh there would have been no Phantom of the Opera (Les Mis, Cats...). That's what some of us are objecting to - that he's some sort of monster for not wanting to continue paying out money on a losing proposition. That they are likely going to reopen with a scaled down model is good business practice (or so it seems in the UK where it has been extended to March 2024) and people should be happy there will be those jobs again. Maybe not as many, but I suspect those backstage members who were recently let go will be the first considered for the new show when and if - it reopens and they are available.

Back to my earlier statement - there is a real sense of entitlement surrounding those who benefitted from the billionaire's investment, as though by seeing the show and enjoying it (several times for many) or working on the show, getting paid an agreed upon salary believe they are supposed to be gifted in some other way. Bad Daddy won't let me have another cotton candy or ride on the Ferris Wheel. He can afford it.

Even Ben had the class to say he "loved" Cameron. Cameron gave him the job. Cameron, directly or indirectly gave all these people jobs. He has also produced other shows that gave people jobs and audiences hours of entertainment and pleasure.

So, yeah, I have his back."



I totally agree with all of this.

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 03:39 PM

The Scorpion said: "TBFL said: "
I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Then your friend is misinformed (which wouldn't be surprising, since RUG is frequently clueless). Hal had definitely visited the London production as late as 2017. He may have visited in 2018 but I don't know if he had been in London that year. Is your friend at RUG aware Hal died in 2019? A bit of a big ask to expect Hal to visit after that.

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs". I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour."

So you're calling my friend misinformed, and yet you don't know for sure when Hal Prince was at the London production? You also stated that HP often popped in to give notes to casts etc and that I knew zilch when HP hadn't been in for years. And yet he HADN'T been in for years. Even by your reckoning, 2017 until his death in 2019 was at least 2 years without seeing the London production.

You seem very quick to correct people and make claims, you know what really happened, You know how HP would feel, you know better than the RUG....when as demonstrated above, you don't have any knowledge otherwise.

The actor you quoted above has been in the show since 2001. They allowed him to go off and do his own things, take a year off and come back again, and yet isn't aware it's only making money because it's closing?

The Instagram girl had already left the show and wasn't working on it when it closed. Why would she and 'the majority of former crew' be invited? Does she have any idea the number of former crew there have been? The majority of former cast weren't invited either.. If she really were such good friends with everyone, i'm surprised no-one took her as their plus 1 or guest.... She pointed out all the reasons why the show was closing. It costs too much, its out of date, the theatre is falling apart. and is bitter that it's receiving a complete overhaul now the show is closed... *eyeroll*

These people seem oblivious to the fact that people losing their job happenes in every show, in every job in the world. What makes the Phantom cast and crew extra special?

you also wrote "It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour."

How do you know they were unaware? It wasn't discussed or mentioned. Maybe he doesn't have a problem with because it isn't all that different. And no, I don't need to hear again all the aggrievances you have against the new productions, thanks.

TBFL said:

So you're calling my friend misinformed, and yet you don't know for sure when Hal Prince was at the London production? You also stated that HP often popped in to give notes to casts etc and that I knew zilch when HP hadn't been in for years. And yet he HADN'T been in for years. Even by your reckoning, 2017 until his death in 2019 was at least 2 years without seeing the London production.

Hal died in the summer of 2019. He was at the London show in late 2017. That is not 2 years. (He may well have been there in 2018, but I don't know). Saying Hal hadn't been at the show for 'years' sounds like he hadn't visited Her Majesty's in quite some time.

The actor you quoted above has been in the show since 2001. They allowed him to go off and do his own things, take a year off and come back again, and yet isn't aware it's only making money because it's closing?

The Instagram girl had already left the show and wasn't working on it when it closed. Why would she and 'the majority of former crew' be invited? Does she have any idea the number of former crew there have been? The majority of former cast weren't invited either.. If she really were such good friends with everyone, i'm surprised no-one took her as their plus 1 or guest.... She pointed out all the reasons why the show was closing. It costs too much, its out of date, the theatre is falling apart. and is bitter that it's receiving a complete overhaul now the show is closed... *eyeroll*

These people seem oblivious to the fact that people losing their job happenes in every show, in every job in the world. What makes the Phantom cast and crew extra special?

I don't understand why you are conflating them with me. All I did was point out that these are people who were in the show and this is how they have said they feel. You have made it abundantly, condescendingly, and aggressively clear that you find their sentiments entirely unwarranted and stupid. I understand that, but I am not here to defend how they feel. They are not me. You should ask them.

How do you know they were unaware? It wasn't discussed or mentioned. Maybe he doesn't have a problem with because it isn't all that different. And no, I don't need to hear again all the aggrievances you have against the new productions, thanks.

It was, right at the beginning. The interviewer asks, Jim P says he doesn't know, and so forth.

I am not sure what set off your attitude here but I am rather bored with it. If you desperately feel the need to rip this post apart as well, then feel free; I think I am done.

MemorableUserName said:

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?

Right?

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 06:35 PM

Luminaire2 said: "Load out footage starting to appear from today:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMY7Ubk5A/

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMY7Ub51h/"

I'd really like to know where these items are going.

Lot666 said: "TBFL said: "Have you even seen the new London production? It's hardly downsized. It's had a few set pieces removed and some added and the orchestra cut in half. Unless you're an uber Phan and moan when they dust the set, then you really wouldnt notice any difference."

One needn't be "an uber Phan" to hear a near 50% orchestra reduction in favor of synthesizers."

Then maybe instead of buying souvenirs, you can contribute to the salary of a musician.

Eh, there always has to be someone defending our corporate overlords and justifying why they just HAD to cut jobs (while simultaneously collecting large bonuses and raising prices), no matter what industry is being discussed. They're best left ignored.

We're all just so lucky that Cameron Mackintosh kept the show running as long as he did, out of pure benevolence, even though it was such a massive money-losing bomb that it nearly drove him to bankruptcy. Such a kind, generous soul, that Cam.