Sean Hayes / Oscar Levant - The Jewish Part — Page 5

The fundamental truth here is- the diversity police- who want a black, brown or POC influence in every segment of life- including every movie, show, etc.- which I think is valid, justified and a long time coming- have deemed Jews to not be part of the diversity push. Jews have suffered historically- and are still being persecuted- yet they are not a "protected" class- quite the opposite. And this, my friends, is anti-semitism at work. This is why you can have a black Florenz Ziegfeld- but any black character- even a Temptation- will never, ever be portrayed by a Jew.

In your opinion- are Jews locked out of the diversity discussion specifically when casting roles in the arts? Do you think Jews should be part of the discussion and should be looked at as "protected"? Does the push for POC diversity currently include Jews- if not, why not? and do you think Jews should be included in this push for diversity?

I agree as well- I love Sean Hayes and hope to see it. But, we are discussing the broader questions of Jewish participation in the diversity discussion. I hope Sean Hayes has a long run- and I cant wait to see it.

James Edwards2 said: "This argument is precisely why there is a problem with representation. Mr. Hayes can get the play produced because he is famous. But Mr. Hayes most likely would not have had the television career he had if he were Jewish and had semitic features. Television sitcoms of the 80s and 90s and 00s rarely featured actors with semitic features. We do not have a lot of Jewish-facing stars. So in order to get the play done we have to cast someone who isn't Jewish. Which is also why there has been a lack of representation in big movies. Studios understandably want to bank on bankable actors. Most of those actors are white."


A number of times here, you have used the words "semitic features". Tell us PRECISELY what you mean by that. What are "semitic features"? What features did Oscar Levant have that you classify as "semitic"? You claim to be Jewish, so tell us what features YOU have that are semitic.

Updated On: 4/26/23 at 03:17 PM

Highland Guy said: "James Edwards2 said: "This argument is precisely why there is a problem with representation. Mr. Hayes can get the play produced because he is famous. But Mr. Hayes most likely would not have had the television career he had if he were Jewish and had semitic features. Television sitcoms of the 80s and 90s and 00s rarely featured actors with semitic features. We do not have a lot of Jewish-facing stars. So in order to get the play done we have to cast someone who isn't Jewish. Which is also why there has been a lack of representation in big movies. Studios understandably want to bank on bankable actors. Most of those actors are white."


A number of times here, you have used the words "semitic features". Tell us PRECISELY what you mean by that. What are "semitic features"? What features did Oscar Levant have that you classify as "semitic"? You claim to be Jewish, so tell us what features YOU have that are semitic.

"

I'll do my best to answer this but I'm not sure I can. I can tell you that people frequently ask me if I'm Jewish. Perhaps it's the color of my skin which is referred to as olive. I'm not exactly sure how or why they might know or think to ask. I will say that there are Jewish people who do not look traditionally Jewish (Paul Rudd) and I wouldn't be able to tell by how they look. But then there are those who I would be surprised to find out are not Jewish based on how they look (Woody Allen comes to mind). I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama and I do not look like the people I grew up with. And this was always made very clear to me as a victim of anti-semitism at school. Oscar Levant does not look "white" to me. He seems to have darker skin and certain facial features, and perhaps the placement of his facial features. These things are not are not what most people would call "All-American." I think we can maybe agree that Brad Pitt does not look at all Jewish. Why is that? I don't know.

Consistency doesn't necessarily produce fairness or equity when circumstances are different though. That's why representation can be such a thorny issue. One size does not fit all.

Highland Guy said: "James Edwards2 said: "I'll do my best to answer this but I'm not sure I can. I can tell you that people frequently ask me if I'm Jewish. Perhaps it's the color of my skin which is referred to as olive. I'm not exactly sure how or why they might know or think to ask. I will say that there are Jewish people who do not look traditionally Jewish (Paul Rudd) and I wouldn't be able to tell by how they look. But then there are those who I would be surprised to find out are not Jewish based on how they look (Woody Allen comes to mind). I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama and I do not look like the people I grew up with. And this was always made very clear to me as a victim of anti-semitism at school. Oscar Levant does not look "white" to me. He seems to have darker skin and certain facial features, and perhaps the placement of his facial features. These things are not are not what most people would call "All-American." I think we can maybe agree that Brad Pitt does not look at all Jewish. Why is that? I don't know."

A non-answer.

You have called me and at least one other person on this thread "Anti-Semitic". You have said that I might be a "Holocaust Denier". Filthy accusations.

YOU are the one who used the term "Semitic features" so I must assume that you are an expert of some sort on the subject. Tell me how to distinguish between Jewish and non-Jewish on the stage?

"

I suggested people (like yourself) were anti-semitic because they were saying things that are anti-semitic. It's just fact. I'm sorry if that hurt feelings. But you were not on the receiving end of the anti-semitic statements. Try to imagine what that feels like. And I think I explained myself pretty well with regards to semitic features. I don't need to describe these for you. All you need to know is that they exist. You seemed confused as to their existence. That's all I'm going to say to you. You can absolutely feel free to do a little reading on the topic.

James Edwards2 said: "Highland Guy said: "James Edwards2 said: "I'll do my best to answer this but I'm not sure I can. I can tell you that people frequently ask me if I'm Jewish. Perhaps it's the color of my skin which is referred to as olive. I'm not exactly sure how or why they might know or think to ask. I will say that there are Jewish people who do not look traditionally Jewish (Paul Rudd) and I wouldn't be able to tell by how they look. But then there are those who I would be surprised to find out are not Jewish based on how they look (Woody Allen comes to mind). I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama and I do not look like the people I grew up with. And this was always made very clear to me as a victim of anti-semitism at school. Oscar Levant does not look "white" to me. He seems to have darker skin and certain facial features, and perhaps the placement of his facial features. These things are not are not what most people would call "All-American." I think we can maybe agree that Brad Pitt does not look at all Jewish. Why is that? I don't know."

A non-answer.

You have called me and at least one other person on this thread "Anti-Semitic". You have said that I might be a "Holocaust Denier". Filthy accusations.

YOU are the one who used the term "Semitic features" so I must assume that you are an expert of some sort on the subject. Tell me how to distinguish between Jewish and non-Jewish on the stage?

"

I suggested people (like yourself) were anti-semitic because they were saying things that are anti-semitic. It's just fact. I'm sorry if that hurt feelings. But you were not on the receiving end of the anti-semitic statements. Try to imagine what that feels like. And I think I explained myself pretty well with regards to semitic features. I don't need to describe these for you. All you need to know is that they exist. You seemed confused as to their existence. That's all I'm going to say to you. You can absolutely feel free to do a little reading on the topic."

Another non-answer.

Tell me what things I was saying that are anti-semitic.

Highland Guy said: "James Edwards2 said: "Highland Guy said: "James Edwards2 said: "I'll do my best to answer this but I'm not sure I can. I can tell you that people frequently ask me if I'm Jewish. Perhaps it's the color of my skin which is referred to as olive. I'm not exactly sure how or why they might know or think to ask. I will say that there are Jewish people who do not look traditionally Jewish (Paul Rudd) and I wouldn't be able to tell by how they look. But then there are those who I would be surprised to find out are not Jewish based on how they look (Woody Allen comes to mind). I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama and I do not look like the people I grew up with. And this was always made very clear to me as a victim of anti-semitism at school. Oscar Levant does not look "white" to me. He seems to have darker skin and certain facial features, and perhaps the placement of his facial features. These things are not are not what most people would call "All-American." I think we can maybe agree that Brad Pitt does not look at all Jewish. Why is that? I don't know."

A non-answer.

You have called me and at least one other person on this thread "Anti-Semitic". You have said that I might be a "Holocaust Denier". Filthy accusations.

YOU are the one who used the term "Semitic features" so I must assume that you are an expert of some sort on the subject. Tell me how to distinguish between Jewish and non-Jewish on the stage?

"

I suggested people (like yourself) were anti-semitic because they were saying things that are anti-semitic. It's just fact. I'm sorry if that hurt feelings. But you were not on the receiving end of the anti-semitic statements. Try to imagine what that feels like. And I think I explained myself pretty well with regards to semitic features. I don't need to describe these for you. All you need to know is that they exist. You seemed confused as to their existence. That's all I'm going to say to you. You can absolutely feel free to do a little reading on the topic."

Another non-answer.

Tell me what things I was saying that are anti-semitic."

THIS

Highland Guy said: "I don't believe there is truth to anything the OP has posted."

Maybe you weren't referring to any of the Jewish topics I mentioned. But you said there's no truth to anything I had said.

James Edwards2 said: "Highland Guy said: "Tell me what things I was saying that are anti-semitic."

THIS

Highland Guy said: "I don't believe there is truth to anything the OP has posted."

Maybe you weren't referring to any of the Jewish topics I mentioned. But you said there's no truth to anything I had said."



And I still don't think there is truth to anything you have posted. That DOES NOT make me Anti-Semitic. And it DOES NOT make me, as you have suggested, a Holocaust Denier. I continue to question your motives for creating this thread.

James Edwards2 said: "It's good to know you're not a Holocaust denier."



Without reason or proof, you called me a Holocaust Denier. That forced me to defend myself and my reputation. But instead of an apology, you post the above dismissive comment. That, by any definition, is TROLLING.

Highland Guy said: "James Edwards2 said: "It's good to know you're not a Holocaust denier."



Without reason or proof, you called me a Holocaust Denier. That forced me to defend myself and my reputation. But instead of an apology, you post the above dismissive comment. That, by any definition, is TROLLING.

"

That's not what happened but okay. I apologize for suggesting you might be someone who would also deny the Holocaust. That was my bad.

But it wasn't trolling as you suggest. It wasn't meant to upset you, which is what trolling is. It was meant to point out that the kinds of things you are denying in what I was saying are similar things to people who deny the Holocaust. If you don't want people to make those connections, maybe try not to discount someone's viewpoint on a topic you aren't at all versed in. I say this with care, not in anger.

Updated On: 4/26/23 at 07:14 PM

I agree with this guy's underlying point re the double standard many of you are guilty of, frankly, but this over the top presentation does no one any favors here and accomplishes nothing.

I was, however, thinking today about the comment above--fairly made--that there ISNT a representation issue re Jewish actors. I think thats probably true from a #s perspective, but why don't we apply that logic to LGBTQ performers? Isn't there an argument that gay characters should be played by gay actors? But surely there isnt a dearth of gay actors?

I reject the notion both for Jews and LGBTQ--the Joan Rivers project with Kathryn Hahn is a casualty of this nonsense-- but its an interesting example where REPRESENTATION seems to matter for one more than the other.