Some of you may think this racist...it's not:

[SallyBrown]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 4:48pm

Just a little warning in the title.

I help out sometimes at this children's theatre, and now they're doing AIDA for ppl ages 12-17. Yeah, not sure at ALL how it's going to work, but hey, we'll see.

So I auditioned (kinda stupid of me, I already have a show I have to rehearse for after Guys and Dolls is finished but what can I say..) and I got a call back for Aida and Amneris.

Does it work to have a white Aida? I'm not complaining or anything but...?

Posted: 5/4/05 at 4:52pm

I guess if you can have a Blonde Egyptian, you could have a white Nubian.

I'm assuming they are going for color-blind casting here. Interesting-- please keep us posted!

[SallyBrown]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 4:58pm

yeah, basically. The thing is, in my area of CT, all the African American kids are not into theatre, so there ya go

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:01pm

There was recently a production that had a white Aida and a black Radames. As long as they're of different races, I guess the basic idea of forbidden love and nationality differences can be kept, even though I thought it a little weird anyway. Historically, Amneris and Radames probably weren't *really* white, for the record.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:10pm

Well obviously the opera AIDA has been cast over the years with many white performers, as has CLEOPATRA....

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:10pm

There have been threads on this in the past, and it's a complicated (not to mention touchy) subject. I personally am of the philosophy that in a show were realism and/or historical accuracy are important, actors of appropriate physical characteristics should be cast, whether it's a matter of race, looking like a historical figure, or simply being believable as a blood relative. Also, one has to be true to the time period. If you're doing, say--to take an example I used on an earlier thread--"Death of a Salesman," you need to cast a white actor as Howard, Willy's boss, because in the 1950s that's (unfortunately) how things were.

SO...if you're doing "Aida," and the character is supposed to be black, well then, a black actress should be playing the part. But I guess if no black women audition they don't have much of a choice!

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:11pm

Sally, what theater is it? I live in CT an am interested in seeing this if it's not too far.

[kangaroo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:23pm

I just feel that part of the story is a forbidden love between races... and it is the underlying theme of the story. Of course, similar to Romeo and Juliet... except that it's not the families that hate each other, it's their nations. I don't know though, if a white person got to play Kim in Miss Saigon, I would be pretty angry. I guess I understand if there are no African Americans in the theatre, then they have no other option but to give it to a white person... maybe they should have thought this through before choosing Aida. How is your ratio of 'minorities' to white people... not to sound crass?

~kangaroo

[trpguyy]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:30pm

If it were going to be historically accurate, there could be no white people in it. We all know what Egyptians look like, right?

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:34pm

I love how PC everybody is talking about how historically an African American should play Aida. Shouldn't she just be African if we're going to cast it "correctly?"

[Kavana]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:41pm

African American and Black American are not the same
Egypt is in Africa those people have dark skin.
So no1 in Aida should be white
now thats racist

but these are teens so it doesnt matter

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:55pm

"I personally am of the philosophy that in a show were realism and/or historical accuracy are important, actors of appropriate physical characteristics should be cast."

The thing you have to consider with Aida is that it's not exactly realistic or historical. Verdi made up the story. Further, Elton John and Tim Rice chose to make their adaptation modern, infused with pop culture, and only mildly suggestive of Egypt anyway. So in one sense, it doesn't matter one bit who plays the roles as far as historical accuracy or realism go.

What's important is that the THEMES (such as international tension, forbidden love, etc.) are recognizable. The easiest way to do this is to have obvious physical differences like race represent them, but there is no reason a competent director and designer can't work around them.

That having been said, I sure hope you have some soulful white girls in your area that can do justice to "The Gods Love Nubia." Updated On: 5/4/05 at 05:55 PM

[Jon]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:55pm

Considering how many all-white productions of ONCE ON THIS ISLAND are done every year...

AIDA is a fantasy - a fairy tale. It's not like it deals with apartheid or politics in modern day Africa or anything...

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:57pm

I know that the show isn't particularly realistic, and nor are its focuses really on the "touchy" issues so much as they are on the story of forbidden love, but even though the situation that it DOES portray is not current doesn't mean that it's a "fairy tale." Slavery and war still happened, even though they're not modern. I'm sorry, but this isn't just in defense of the show, it's a matter of watching your words. Wouldn't that be like saying that any other ancient time of war and slavery are fairy tale, just because of the particular treatment they get in one place or another, and because they aren't particularly current? History, no matter how it's presented, doesn't disappear. Take AIDA for what it's worth, but be respectful to what is at least its partial source material.

Actually, the story DOES have historical basis, to whoever posted that. Its primary purpose is not historical, but the fighting between Egypt and Nubia WAS real.

I'm not saying that the show is deeper than it really is, but it's not complete fiction, and it's not a cartoon.

Updated On: 5/4/05 at 05:57 PM

[AnotherDay46]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:05pm

My school did Aida this year. It was an all white cast...except for one person, Radames was black. So they switched the color of the logo and all was good to go.

[mallardo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:18pm

In the opera world when a white soprano sings Aida she normally wears dark make-up - certainly in every production I've seen. Likewise for tenors singing Otello.

[MadameButterfly]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:26pm

Obviously you dont know what Egyptians look like. Some have blonde hair, some have blue eyes. My husband and his family are from Egypt. The picture above of the blonde-haired woman is Sally Shaheen. She was Miss Egypt in the Miss Universe Pageant. I suppose you would say she would be inaccurate to play the role?

If you want to know what Egyptian royalty looked like, Egypt had a royal family until approx. 1952. The second picture is of King Farouk's sister, Princess Fawzia, who later married the Shah of Iran. Her coloring (dark hair, blue eyes) is very similiar to that of Elizabeth Taylor or Vivian Leigh so it is fitting that either one of those actresses played Cleopatra. Cleopatra, incidentally, was of a Macedonian-Egyptian dynasty.

There are some "Egyptians" who have dark skin and may even be considered black such as Anwar Sadat but like Sadat they probably have other parentage. Sadat's mother was Sudanese while his father was Egyptian. Any child born to an Egyptian father is considered Egyptian under Egyptian Law.

This thread is very racist and my husband and his family would certainly be offended if they read it.

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:30pm

everyone's a little bit racist sometimes...
doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes...

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:32pm

This all has nothing to do with racism. The truth is that none of us were there in 800 B.C. or whatever the hell it was, and we don't know what the people REALLY looked like. For God's sake, maybe they all were green.

If you want to get historical about your speculation, look at ANCIENT Egyptian art - many of the figures have relatively dark skin.

It's also important to remember that things change. Of course there are variations. It doesn't mean there always were, or that we have any right to say we KNOW. This was thousands of years ago.

The bottom line is that AIDA (I'm talking the rock MUSICAL here, not the opera) has no way to be 100% accurate because we don't know.

Updated On: 5/4/05 at 06:32 PM

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:33pm

Wow, whatever people say against my school, I have to give it credit in this area. Funny how in most of examples given, there's been talk about a white Aida, a white Once On This Island cast, etc. My school over the years was quite the opposite:

Aida this past year-Amneris was white, Radames was Haitain though he looks Hispanic and Aida was black...Mereb was Indian, Zoser was black, as was the pharoah. In fact, aside from Amneris...there were 2 white slaves. That's it.

West Side Story-Tony was white, Maria was half white, half asian, Riff was the same person to play Radames, Bernando was black...again not few whites in the rest of the cast.

We did Once On This Island in 9th grade, that was awesome! Couple white leads but most people in the show were black or minority. It actually made me laugh to see another's high school production that was all-white, gah, definitely lost something.

My high school when I graduated I believe was 18% white. And, especially Aida and West Side Story, race was an important factor in the story, yet casting was not influenced, as it should not be I think for amateur productions. We've really had some wonderful productions, I'm glad we're pretty diverse.

Though if someone wants to laugh, when we did Fame: the musical...in a school that is 18% white...Tyrone of all characters...was played by a whitey. Nick and Schlomo were black, it was actually great casting though. Hehe.

[mallardo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:37pm

The thread is not racist. And yes, most Egyptians today are Caucasians. Both the musical and opera both make a point of the racial divide between the Egyptians and the Nubians - a divide which still exists today - so it is necessary to address this issue when mounting productions.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:37pm

"African American and Black American are not the same
Egypt is in Africa those people have dark skin."

Thank you for pointing this out. My friend is Egyptian and always filled out "African American" on questionaires and applications. The only negative reaction he got was from a black individual, who accused him of trying to use it as a loophole, since colleges were looking for "racial diversity." My friend challenged them to trace their own heritage back to Africa, and when they couldn't, suggested that maybe they didn't have the right to refer to themself as African American.

Narrowed-minded attitudes about ethnicity is where discrimination comes from. If you can't have a white Aida, why should you be able to have a black Glinda? Colorblind casting has to go both ways.

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:43pm

That's exactly what I'm getting it. If you're going to do Show Boat or Ragtime, you damn well better have the correct racial makeup in your cast, but Aida does not attempt to be a historical recreation or even necessarily an exploration of racial tension. It's a LOVE story -- Every story is a love story, it says -- and there are any number of ways to convey that the affair between Radames and Aida was forbidden. THAT is what drives the show.

[MadameButterfly]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:08pm

Yes, there is a way to have a fairly accurate idea of what the Ancient Egyptians looked like and that is know Egyptian history....actual history, not the revisionist "afrocentrist" propaganda that unfortunately is distorting the issue.

Approximately 10% of Egyptian society today is known as "Coptic". These are Egyptian Christians who have been Christian since the time of Saint Mark. Because Egypt became a predominantly Muslim society (as did most countries in the Middle East), Egyptian Christians intermarried with each other from that time and preserved that heritage in a similiar way that Jews have done in predominantly Christian societies.

The poster that said that most Egyptians are Caucasian is correct and that is my point. One of the themes in AIDA is the racial divide between Egyptians and Nubians which still exists today, so the irony of someone saying the Egyptian roles should be "authentically" cast by black actors is really too much.

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:14pm

well the way things are these days races seem to pretty much not matter- 2 examples

chicago- taye diggs, wayne brady, and many other african american actors have played billy flynn, who as a refresher is an amazingly high priced lawyer in the 20's...lets face it its not all that plausible

wicked- this one's more dismissable simply by the standard "well its oz" but when ben vareen takes over it essentially boils down to black+white= green

so a white aida wouldn't be entirely strange