Spiderman Preview Thread!- Page 63

[KirbyCat]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 9:57am

Again, thanks Scott for keeping this thread about what it should be about. This thread was only created for purposes of keeping people up to date on Spiderman's preview process (and it's mishaps). Of course the show is being bashed here, but there is absolutely NO NEED to bash a poster on their feelings about the show, positive or negative.

I too thought it was a spectacular night in the theater. Not the best show ever presented on a Broadway stage, but certainly one of the most innovative and dazzling experiences I've ever had at a live event, I must say.


If you guys don't agree with Scott's (wonderfully written) review, then lay off and just shut up. It's incredibly offensive, and I give him props for being so gracious about it. Updated On: 2/5/11 at 09:57 AM

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 11:14am

Hubris...

In SMTOTD's program notes there is an excerpt from Peter Parker's oral report: The Myth of Arachne.

"The Ancient Greeks reserved a special word for the sort of arrogance that makes you forget your own humanity. That word was Hubris."

Hubris is the word we use for those people who attempt feats reserved for the Gods. It is a reminder that we want people to reach for the stars - greatness - but also a warning used to keep people in their place.



I find this very curious in context to SMTOTD. Long before the first preview there were many posts here bashing the show. God forbid something should cost $65 million dollars and struggle to find it's financial backing and footing.

There is no doubt that safety should always be an important issue, especially when attempting any acrobatic feat that pushes the boundaries of human possibility. That SMTOTD experienced some early mishaps (thankfully no major tragedy), is reason to be concerned. The SMTOTD company took immediate note and worked tirelessly to make the adjustments - at great expense.

The comments that Ms. Taymor and the SMTOTD company were monsters pushing the company beyond any reasonable safety, just isn't so. For those who made those comments and continue to do so, you are just uniformed and cruel.

It's easy to trash my opinions here, but have you looked to yourself and your own motives for disliking this show - many before even seeing it, many before it even had a decent chance to find it's legs.

From most internal accounts, the cast and crew of SMTOTD are a tight community. AND extremely supportive of Ms. Taymor's work. (I am truly curious as to what is really behind the Ms. Medonza leaving story.) I have read and listened to many interviews and everyone working on the project is extremely excited about the work.

The house staff at the theater told me that Ms. Taymor is extremely gracious. One of the ushers told me a story where the ushers were gathered talking about the show. Ms. Taymor walked by and out of respect, they all went silent. Ms. Taymor sensing the tension stopped and joined them, making it clear that it was more than okay for them to have their opinions and discuss the show. She then invited the ushers to offer their comments, opinions and suggestions. Many of them took her up on her offer and submitted essays on the work in progress. She thanked each and every one of them.

Why all the hate? I am creating a new word. A word taken from a rather contemporary source: riedel. This word can be used both as a noun and a verb. It will come to mean those nasty people who out of their own issues need to release their malice without consideration of the time, energy and effort - the very vulnerability of an artist - it takes to create works of art.

Perhaps the word we use to describe someone - or someone's actions - who wish ill on those who attempt what has been reserved for the Gods. Hubris.











Updated On: 2/5/11 at 11:14 AM

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 11:24am

Some people on this board can be such riedels!

[SNAFU]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 11:27am

Ultimately only time and box office will tell. Once the real word of mouth gets out there, (whatever that may be at this point) will determine Spiderman's fate.
We will probably see a dip in attendance as the rubberneckers are sated.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 11:43am

Oh my goodness! Where is all the hate everyone is talking about? I certainly never attacked SB personally. I strongly disagreed with his opinion. Isn't that sort of the point of a message board?
My problem with Scott's review is it sounds like the review of a fanboy. Which is fine...lord knows I have my fanboy moments (hello Madonna). But his review is overlooking MAJOR obvious flaws in the second act.
Also I have no problem discussing audience reaction. My problem comes when people use that to back up their opinion. I remember in the Dance of the Vampire days when people would come back and report how great it was and it MUST be great because the audience LOVED it and they were even running to the box office after the show to buy more tickets.
If people are so sensitive about their opinion being disagreed with maybe they shouldn't post it on a public forum.
"The Ancient Greeks reserved a special word for the sort of arrogance that makes you forget your own humanity. That word was Hubris."
Sounds like Julie Taymor!

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 12:17pm

ErikJ972 can you please tell me where you've read my unwritten review of the second act? Please. Because writing here does take time and energy (although I admit loving it) and I could simple cut and paste it here instead of taking the time to compose my thoughts and putting them into words.

Also, I have not accused any one person of being hateful. I did make a comment about your tone and I hold to that comment.

* * *

I for one think hubris is a wonderful thing. Why not reach for the stars? Just because the Greeks feared their God's wrath, doesn't mean that attempting the new and pushing the boundaries - envelope - is a bad thing.

ErikJ972, here we agree. Hubris does sound like Julie Taymor and power to her! I only wish that I had the opportunity to realize more of my artistic visions.

If on the other hand, you're talking about an egotism that is inappropriate, I don't think you have Ms. Taymor pegged. From all accounts she's a hard worker and demands excellence from her company, but most are not complaining. In fact, most are honored to be working with her.

Actually, can you point to any one with the Spider-Man company who is, or has commented negatively about Ms. Taymor's work ethic? If not, you're being a riedel and need to seriously look at your motives.

* * *

I respect your right to an opinion, although I disagree with it. However, unlike you I have not accused you - in so many words - of having bad taste. Madonna?
Updated On: 2/5/11 at 12:17 PM

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 12:22pm

Yes. Madonna! Who's latest albums have been awful and I still love her. And you can say that's tasteless and I'll manage to soldier on. For the record, I don't think I ever accused you of having bad taste. Honestly I don't think the fact that you loved STOTD has anything to with taste.
I'm not responding to any detailed review you wrote. I'm responding the fact that you called the show a masterpiece and said you didn't see any flaws in the second act.

[leefowler]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 12:28pm

A lot of people on this thread are very Sarah Palin-esque...Whenever someone disagrees with them, they complain they're being persecuted.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 12:29pm

I never wrote that I didn't see any flaws in the second act.

I will go back later and find where I thought you implied I had questionable taste.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 12:52pm

Just had to say
Madonna Rules

[Q]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 1:11pm

Whatever becomes of the musical, we will always have this thread - the gift that keeps on giving.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 1:13pm

^ Amen Q :)

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 1:23pm

I was paraphrasing. If you want the exact quotes I was responding to (besides calling it a "masterpiece") it was this:

"Deeply Furious, is not the disaster or the joke that it has been made out to be here. In context, it worked extremely well. I did not hear a single snicker or inappropriate laughter as reported many times here.

The script is not bad at all. I did not laugh at it. The jokes didn't fall flat, although it is not a particularly comedic book. I followed the first act completely and the second act all made sense by the curtain call."

From Urban Dictionary: Fanboy 1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.

That was a fanboy review. And if I had written a review of Madonna's last tour...that would have been a fanboy review too. And up Songanddance...Madonna does indeed rock. But even though I enjoyed them...her last tour and album sucked.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 1:25pm

And for the record. I don't even think what has been written here so far adequately conveys how much of a disaster Deeply Furious really is.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 1:59pm

I am always happy when someone has a fabulous time in the theater and Scott, I am sure you are not the only one to leave this show on Cloud 9. However, I have a few problems with your review that I would love if you would address. I have not seen the show and probably never will, but the journey of this production is probably more interesting than what is on stage and I cannot keep from following this saga.

So here are my questions based on your previous posts (no hate, just curious how you would respond as a lover of this show):

I realize that what I saw tonight was a greatly refined show than the first previews, and yes, it still needs work - and is getting it… - As for what have they been doing: a lot. I have personally posted questions regarding what are they working on, as so many of the posts haven't made clear the work that is being done. When I spoke with Ms. Taymor she on three occasions said how hard they were working to perfect the musical. I didn't doubt her.
Can you explain exactly what has been changed? From those who post here the ONLY change which seems to be implemented since the first preview (aside from the technical issues) is that Peter flies at the end. Can you tell us what exactly is going to be changed by opening night? Did Julie say what specifically is going to happen and when this will occur?

Where the score doesn't soar, it is more than serviceable. (By the way, I don't know who did the reporting that Bono and The Edge aren't working the score, they are. New material has been written and there have been enormous tweaks to the original work.)
A great musical, in my opinion, needs more than a “serviceable” score. Where did you hear that Bono and The Edge are working on the score and what changes will be done?
When I spoke with Ms. Taymor about the comments regarding the second act being a little confusing, she was clear that it was intentional
So she is intentionally trying to confuse the audience? At a family show where a good portion of her audience will be under the age of 12? Not such a great idea, and why would you intentionally try to make your “message” confusing?
Spider-man: Turn Off the Dark (SMTOTD) is a book musical… SMTOTD is a book musical, very much so.
Ms. Taymor, herself, has said this is NOT a musical. So if you feel that it is “very much a book musical” she has not achieved what she set out to achieve.

In fact, although there is a love story between Peter and Mary Jane, much of that is left off stage and is carried by our understanding of the legend.
Playwriting 101:
1) Action happens on stage, not in the wings.
2) Do not assume your audience knows or understands “the legend”. (Source material)

Thanks in advance for your reply.
By the way, no sin in "Guilty Pleasures".

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 2:05pm

Thank you for making my lemons into lemonaide Sueleen!!

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 2:15pm

I do what I can, Erik.
Speaking of lemons...Scott, how did you like In My Life?

[Mike3]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 2:22pm

From the original post by Scott:

"Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark is a masterpiece!"
"I was blown away with it's brilliance and majesty."[sic]

And then...

"Yes, it still needs work..."
"Where the score doesn't soar, it is more than serviceable."
"The script is not bad at all."
"I do think it is slightly long..."

Therein, for me, lies the problem. Hyperbole rarely helps one make his or her case well. In many instances, it is the very reason one is not taken seriously.

Updated On: 2/5/11 at 02:22 PM

[HummingAlong]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 2:23pm

Updated On: 2/5/11 at 02:23 PM

[beensince1987]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 2:23pm

I think what many people are upset about this show is that the creative teams are not really willing to change anything at all during the long long preview period altho so many people in and out of this business think some of the things on the stage are not working. Making statements like " Bone and The Edge are not writing new songs" or " I am not cutting or re-staging Deeply Furious number".

I don't care how much $ they are spending for that show as long as it's not my $. But if my cash was involved, then I wanna see them trying to make it work, like putting a new song or different staging of existing one. After all, isn't that what previews are for?

There are so many people saying that this show has a potential, I thought weaving the tapestry scene was stunning to see, but seems like some people's egos are stopping what it could be (could have been?).

I am glad Scott had a blast at the show but I didn't, and I wanted to be wowed by Taymor.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 4:15pm

Maybe I am misinterpreting this statement:

"When I spoke with Ms. Taymor she on three occasions said how hard they were working to perfect the musical. I didn't doubt her."

Does this mean you spoke with her on 3 different occasions or that she said this 3 times during the one conversation you had with her?

Also, with all due respect...You have posted a few lengthy responses to some posts here but still have not given us you detailed thoughts on Act II. (Unless I missed it)

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 5:02pm

"When I spoke with Ms. Taymor she, on three occasions, said how hard they were working to perfect the musical. I didn't doubt her."

I took it as her saying it three different times. I'm sure he only had one conversation with her since he spent all of his time during the pre-show having 'extended' conversations with the ushers (which seems odd to me. Didn't they have anything to do, like seat people?)and a long discussion at intermission in the bathroom, which I'm sure didn't include her.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 5:59pm

SueleenGay: I think your questions are excellent ones. Here goes...

Change

Personally, I don't know exactly what has changed. I have only seen the show the one time.

I too wondered how the producers / creatives were justifying the extended preview period while few reports suggested any major work was being done, or even being planned. I've read the reports in the press that Bono and The Edge had frozen the score. I've read most - if not all - the Julie Taymor interviews where one moment she talks about the spectacle serving the story and others where she is seemingly contradicting herself.

There had been some reports - both here and in the press - of the additional flying sequence added to the end of act two and some press that suggested there were more changes to come. Not nearly the profound changes that would warrant pushing the opening back time and time again.

Having typed that, here's what I was told from the kind usher I spoke with extensively before the show and who said he's seen every performance... He said that the show is a different show now than when it first started performances. And, not just smoothing out the technical issues. He said that large amounts of the book have been rewritten. He said that they cut an amazingly beautiful sequence that involved puppets, but didn't best serve the story. He said that there have been major tweaks to the score. He mentioned a new ending and suggested that they were close to yet another major change to the ending, but rehearsal time had kept them from putting it in just yet.

He said that the performances have grown substantially too. That there were major shifts in the character's motivations, that added clarity to what is "known" as the confusing second act.

Ms. Taymor wasn't as specific, but she did say throughout our conversation that they were hard at work and that she was determined to get this right. When I asked her about the second act and the comments that it was initially confusing, she was clear that it was intentional. That like a mystery - my word not hers - she wants it to all come together in the closing moments. (Which by the way, it did for me in it's current form, and she suggested that there was more to come in this regard.)

It was suggested that there was a new scene going in soon and some substantial cuts. As I wrote earlier, the show currently runs at 2hrs. 45mins. and the plan - with the new scene - is to run at 2hrs. 30mins.

Here's my take on it. I have long ago realized that the press isn't always truthful, or perhaps more kindly, accurate. Words are taken out of context, or reinterpreted by the journalist, editor, etc. For example, I remember clearly reading on several occasions that Bono was no longer working on the score - not true.

What I saw was a team of creatives and technicians at the back of the theater working very hard to get this right. I briefly spoke with the lighting operator (I thought it was the sound engineer), who is currently situated at the back of the house because of the constant notes and need for proximity to the other technicians, and I spoke with the sound engineer. Both were clearly working a show in flux. There was nothing "frozen" about their energy. Aides were holding impromptu meetings during both the intermission as well as after the show.

As for what you've read here... Please. If you remember my initial comments, I wrote "hmmmm" a few times. I used this expression because I was myself taken back by how inaccurate what I had read here - or interpreted - was. I was more expecting to enter a funeral parlor than a theater. The ushers I spoke with, not being members of this website, weren't even aware of the negativity that this board insists is the atmosphere over at the Foxwood Theater. It just isn't so.

In fact, so much of what I've read here, wasn't my experience at all. I should have know this. This board - and many of it's members - are so riedel. I don't wish to be unkind, but... Well, the jokes on me, because I keep coming back here despite what has been proven to me time and time again.

The Score

Do you like every note of every score? How about your favorite ones?

I agree that a good score needs to be more than serviceable. I'm sorry if my words weren't clear. What was meant is that I don't know U2's music and I was actually expecting to not like the score at all. (I didn't like the Good Morning America preview of The Boy Falls From the Sky.) What I heard Thursday night was 9 or 10 wonderful songs and perhaps as many musical moments that were enjoyable, but didn't rock my boat. Nothing stood out as being dreadful or "wrong".

I don't think SMTOTD is going to make it into my favorite scores list, but it definitely will make it into my collection and I am very much looking forward to getting to know it better. This is more about my personal tastes and not about the quality of the work, which has been reported to be sub par on most accounts. Just not so in my opinion.

Ms. Taymor and Confusing

Mysteries are confusing, they're supposed to be. Often, so are thrillers. The second act of SMTOTD has moments that are not initially explained. Nothing contradicts itself, but somethings are left vague, until the end. Without spoilers, this makes sense for what Ms. Taymor is trying to accomplish here. Perhaps, this isn't the Spider-man people are used to, but that is not her intentions.

What I took away from the comments about the writing, before having seen it, was that the book was not only a mess of confusion but amateurish. This is just not the case. All of the dialogue is motivated, and there is a fair amount of it. Is it Pulitzer Prize prose? No. Does it have to be? No.

The creatives on SMTOTD have not only a story to tell, but also some pretty large - yet also simple - themes to explore. Words - dialogue - is just one component of how these subjects are presented. It's true that the best work is the staging and the visuals, but that isn't to type that the book is bad. It's not. It still has some issues, but I am confident from what i saw that they will be worked out in the next month.

Book Musical or Not

SMTOTD is a book musical. Don't believe what you've read (see above). Like most book musicals, there are scenes which often evolve into songs. There is far more dialogue that I expected, or what is common these days for a rock musical.

There is a strong story, but not the traditional Spider-Man saga. Framing the entire musical is the new Arachne myth which is as much the focus of SMTOTD as the Spider-Man of the comics and film. This is intentional and personally, I thought fascinating.

As for my comment regarding what happens offstage... The important action happens onstage. The love story between Peter and Mary Jane is shown, but it's not the main focus and so Ms. Taymor relies on what we do know, so not to bog down the evening. Everything that's needed to understand their relationship is there, just not the details of their courting. Why do we need to see the stage version of the film? Not what this show is about.

I for one think that there needs to be more Arachne. For me, the issues of the second act is that we don't get quite enough of her emotional arc. This is what Ms. Taymor wants us to focus on, as it is the larger story about myth and the throughline of her play. It is my hope that the new scene will fix this.

I hope I've answered your questions.

* * *

As for fanboy... based on the provided definition, no I am not a fanboy. I always want for a show to succeed, but I am very comfortable being honest about my disappointment. If anything, I was prepared for SMTOTD to suck. For me, it just didn't. As I typed earlier, I was enthralled.






Updated On: 2/5/11 at 05:59 PM

[willheim2]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 6:03pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/theater/06spider.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/5/11 at 6:05pm

I spoke with Ms. Taymor only once. She mentioned the hard work three times in that one conversation.

I didn't like, In My Life. I found it boring and pointless.

I haven't written my comments about act two, yet. Although some of them have made their way into my other extensive posts.

The comments in the press that they aren't working on the score - and perhaps many other things - is just not true. I asked.

I am someone who can be very excited about something that moves me. It's how I communicate. No apologies if this didn't "read well" for you.