Spiderman Preview Thread!- Page 65

[justafan2]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 8:16am

Robert Feldberg, critic for Bergen Record, decides to wait until opening night to review:
http://www.northjersey.com/arts_entertainment/115407809_A_critic_decides_to_wait_on__Spider-Man__review.html

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 10:51am

I saw it with a friend who saw it the night Tierny fell and he said it was the exact same show. With less time between scene changes, the addition of the very short spidermand flying sequence at the end, and no one got injured.
It really can not be stressed enough how awful Perfectly Marvalous is. I had hoped it would be so bad it's good...but it's just offensively bad. I wouldn't even have enjoyed it stoned. And that's saying a lot.
Maybe the reason some people are reacting so negatively is because they're pissed off when they leave the theater. I know I was. Having all this time and all this money and all these people telling you that you need to make changes and nothing is being done. Instead they are charging high ticket prices and advertising a show that Julie Taymor says is suppossed to be confusing to children.
Unless she gets over her own hubris, wakes up and sees what's on that stage, she's going to have a career killer on her hands.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 10:53am

First, for all those who have commented on my behalf, thank you. I truly appreciate the support.

For those who have commented on the very nature of a message board and its ability to presenting different points of view, I agree wholeheartedly. There is a difference between expressing conflicting opinions and riedel. Mostly, I think people here have been respectful. On the few occasions where I thought differently, I have typed so.

(Here's the kicker... I too have been riedel on this board. It wasn't too long ago that I was rather nasty regarding, 13. I'd like to believe that since I've learned my lesson and have tried to be more respectful. It's surprisingly easy, when on the Internet, to hide behind our monitors and allow our riedel selves to come through.)

Regarding my comment about facebook... Of course, those who have signed onto their fan site, are going to be positive. Considering the insistence that the vast majority of SMTOTD's audience leave disliking the show, I was just noting that there are still hundreds of people leaving the theater charged enough to become a fan and offer their praise.

AND, what is so more "knowledgeable" (or choose appropriate word) about the members here. Are we so much "better"? Please.

So here the word is mostly negative. So be it. I could easily open a "love Spider-Man" thread and it would draw the few of us who have found something exciting and innovative about this show.

bettystar, welcome. And, in my opinion there are a lot of rather riedel people here. As I've written - and it seems really like to bring up - it wasn't too long ago that I was in a rather similar debate about Memphis. I adored Memphis and most things about it, including it's leads. I went on and on about it before having read the earlier posts which were predominantly negative. I even went as far as to type that I thought there were a lot of Tony awards in Memphis' future.

Many posters laughed at me. Talk about riedel! I was totally trashed for my opinion and informed that I not only had no taste but was ridiculous in thinking that Memphis could win Best Musical.

Well, we all know how that turned out.

I simply remember those posts while reading many of the comments here. I have been going to the theater a very long time and I'm a pretty good judge of what is going to find an audience and what is not. (I won't presume to type that I know what is good or bad, as this board proves that tastes are all over the place.)

Anyway... perhaps today I will get around to writing about intermission, the second act and exiting the theater...

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 10:57am

The tone of debate on this thread hasn't gone above Siskel and Ebert level of "vitriol". Don't be so sensitive. I have no problem with you...it's Spiderman I hate.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:05am

ErikJ972: "Perfectly Marvalous"? Do you mean, Deeply Furious, or more affectionately, the shoe song?

So Sensitive

I don't know where I commented that I thought the debate here had gotten out of hand. I don't think it has. I made a comment about your tone, but I absolutely respect both your opinion and your right to have one. I just disagree with you.

I am not hurt, just a little disappointed that I haven't found a place to discuss theater at the level that I'd like to. There are a lot of people here who's ideas truly provoke me to think in new ways (a very good thing), but unfortunately, there is lots and lots of riedel here, too.
Updated On: 2/6/11 at 11:05 AM

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:10am

I mean Deeply Furious. LOL I don't know where that came from. Wishful thinking I guess.
Updated On: 2/6/11 at 11:10 AM

[tazber]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:12am

It seems like anyone who disagrees with your assessment of Spidey is a Riedel to you.

I am not hurt, just a little disappointed that I haven't found a place to discuss theater at the level that I'd like to.

What level is that? A fan thread where everyone agrees? How boring.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:15am

I disagree. I love the exchange of ideas, and I don't mind people not liking SMTOTD. Riedel is my word for the attitude and not the opinion. There is a huge difference. Sorry, if I haven't made that clear.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:34am

In fact, it could easily be said that my creating the word, riedel, is in itself riedel. Not sure how Mr. Michael Riedel would take to a word representing nasty in all its forms being named after him.

[billyboyA]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:54am

I would like to, as respectfully as I can, add my opinion to this thread.

I saw it on Wed night - the same night as Joan Rivers. And I saw her roll her eyes and shake her head MANY times. So I'm slightly confused as to the reports of her loving it. But then again, nobody knows what's truly in Joan's head - or any of the other celebrities who are praising the show. Remember, the amount of MONEY behind this show is IMMENSE - so is the star power. And Oprah. Oprah is like the ultimate Godfather. You don't want to piss her off because she can make or break projects. If any of you think that ANY celebrity out there doesn't have agents, managers and publicists telling them how to react and behave, so that it positively affects their own marketability of their careers and their projects, then you're crazy. The Jonah brothers could only DREAM to work with Bono. No way that they'd trash his show. It would be suicide.

Ok, now on to my opinion of the show.

I was SO excited. I WANTED to love it. I went in prepared TO love it. Or at the very least LIKE it a lot. Personally, I have felt that no critic worth his salt could give a positive review of a superhero blockbuster musical and hold his head high in literary circles. So I frankly didn't care what critics were saying. Even if they loved it, to stroke their own literary ego's, they would HAVE to be critical of SOME part of the show. And that would probably have to be the book.

So I ignored what I heard. And I went in to have a good time. I mean, it's 65 million DOLLARS and Julie Taymor and U2, for God's sake! How could it not be somewhat wonderful in it's own way.

Well, all I can say is that I sat there in absolute SHOCK as the show went on. Bad dialogue - I mean BAD and amateurish, sounding worse than the dialogue I've heard at bad theme park shows. Dialogue that COULD have been altered and cleaned up and made interesting. And then plotlines that kind of went nowhere. The entire Arachne story COULD be WONDERFUL. It honestly could. There were elements of this woman struggling with who she became, but not enough to make her compelling enough to miss her for the hour or so we didn't see her. And the greek chorus of teens arguing over Spider-man's story and powers, etc. Again, this might have been sort of interesting in a way - but not the way they're doing it. Who are these kids? Why do we even give a rat's a** about them? We don't. One of them says in a solemn way that maybe HE could have been Spiderman. Ok! There we go - SOMETHING to make me care about you. You're a lonely geeky teen. So was Peter. But did it GO anywhere? Nope. That was dropped as soon as it was said.

And then the whole plotline about Arachne coming from the Astral Plane on 55 pairs of stolen shoes. Seriously? My jaw was ACHING from it being dislocated onto my chest in shock that someone WROTE this. "I came from the Astral Plane on 55 pairs of stolen shoes". What? Seriously? That's dialogue and plot worthy of 65 million dollars?

Arachne has the ability to be a WONDERFUL character. The actress playing her was stunning and has an incredible voice. As a writer myself, I'd have KILLED to get in and tune up that story. If I weren't going to use my ideas for my own script, I'd tell you all them right here. But suffice it to say that 3 very EASY adjustments could have made the Arachne story one to rival ANY Broadway star vehicle role in terms of being a compelling character.

Yes, the flying was VERY cool. Even some of the costumes were cool.

But in all of it, we lost the story of Peter... the boy who becomes an unlikely superhero. Some of this was the fault of the sound and probably of Reeve himself. He's emulating Bono's singing style SO much in his second act show stopper, that quite frankly, he screams most of it to the point of not being able to understand a word he's singing. It sounds incredible, sure. But this is story telling, and if you can't hear or understand the lyrics, then who cares, right?

But even THAT could have been resolved easily. "Reeve, we need you to enunciate more and make sure those lyrics are understood"; "Sound guy, we need to pull back on the reverb a bit because we can't understand Reeve's lyrics".

I can't comment on whether the lyrics to the Boy who fell from the sky are wonderful or amateurish. I honestly don't know. Couldn't understand any of them. And I was front row dead center of the flying circle. Best seats in the house, you'd think.

And don't get me started on the villain fashion show - or ugly pageant, I think they called it. When one of the greek chorus kids said that line, prior to the huge runway show that starts the second act, a guy behind me groaned and said "W.T.F. are they DOING up there?"

And my heart broke a little. Because I really wanted Spider-man to be GOOD. To be GREAT... and I realized that no - it wasn't just me. Everyone around me sitting in the theater was trying to figure out why anyone could have allowed THIS book to get to a Broadway stage.

I mean, come on. The story of Peter Parker is SO rich. SO beautiful. The original Spider-man movie with Toby M, was virtually perfect. The angst. The struggle between the Green Goblin and his son... the struggle between Peter and M.J. and the Green Goblin's son... the horrific guilt that Peter felt over his uncle's death...

They had EVERY element they needed...

So, why why WHY would Taymor have DONE this to such a beautiful story?

I think I'm most heartbroken about the Arachne story. She deserved more. Ok, so she was freed from her bonds in the end... and she was happy. But how the eff did we even KNOW that she'd WANT that? Why did Peter even MATTER to her? Was Peter a potential way out for her? Was Peter reminiscent of a lost love? Was she somehow connected to the Spider that BIT Peter? Why why why? Instead, they just made us accept that Arachne is hot for Peter and then seeks revenge by calling him out on the cover of a newspaper.

Really? That's your best shot, Arachne?

So sad. Truly.

I read today that many agents have pitched their own writing clients to Julie Taymor and the production to come in and help clean the book up, but all offers have been denied by the production team. Very sad. The wonderful cast deserves better. Put your ego away, Julie, and let someone wonderful come in and HELP you... the book is a mess, and it REALLY doesn't HAVE to be.

So I'm really sad to say that this show just left me in shock. How could this have happened? I don't get it.

And I went in with a VERY open heart. Very excited to see it. VERY willing to look past the little things that might be off... but it was literally like being egged in the face scene after scene after dreadful scene. After a while you're sitting there with a lap-ful of egg yolks and broken shells and the eggs start to rot and you realize that you're not being entertained. You're being egged.

[uncageg]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 12:10pm

Regarding Oprah, does she still "weild" that kind of power? I figured she gushed over it because she did the interview with Taymore, Bono and The Edge. Correct me if I am wrong, but her name didn't really make The Color Purple a sellout did it? Most black people I talked to didn't even realize the show was on Broadway when it opened. Actually, a lot of people I talked to didn't know.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 12:12pm

You sum up my feelings about the show perfectly Billy. I sat there stunned too. It's like watching a $65 million dollar car wreck. I really can't believe the people investing money in this show aren't FORCING her to make changes. Or firing her.
I sincerely believe if this show opens as is it will be the last broadway musical Taymor directs. It's that jaw droppingly bad.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 12:13pm

I love your review. It's extremely well written and I understand your perspective.

AND, it is respectful.

[willheim2]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 2:20pm

I felt the same as BillyBoy A - I was thinking, right, how can this be THAT bad - it probably rocks to its own beat.

But I was stunned. That's a good word for it. Stunned.

Hey BillyBoyA, was the audience response good? Lot of applause at the end of numbers, big ovation at curtain call?

That's a barometer for me that stands outside our cloistered viewpoints.

For example, when I saw it my feelings were born out by most everyone else in the theater - I had never been in a show with such tepid audience response.

You mentioned the WTF comment by the guy behind you, but what about everyone else?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 2:30pm

“In fact, it could easily be said that my creating the word, riedel, is in itself riedel. Not sure how Mr. Michael Riedel would take to a word representing nasty in all its forms being named after him.”

So, name calling is not allowed on this board unless you make one up and then try to inject it everywhere you can? No one’s buying it.

“the same night as Joan Rivers. And I saw her roll her eyes and shake her head MANY times. So I'm slightly confused as to the reports of her loving it.”

That’s coming from the Spiderman folks. Another attempt to twist reality in their favor.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 2:42pm

Like nails on a chalkboard.

[Nick2]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 7:18pm

I just came back from the Sun. 2/6 matinee. Show almost went off without a hitch, until the closing number when Reeve Carney just dangled above the orchestra seats. (They didn't finish the closing number?!!!)

The show is truly horrible. Pity is, I took my six nephews -- all Spiderman lovers. This was their first Broadway show. They pretty much hated it. What a horrible "first Broadway show" experience.

I bought tickets months ago (back when opening night was still in January) and bought in February hoping the kinks would have been ironed out. No such luck.

The second act is completely inscrutable. And the flying is not worth the risk. Its effect is little more than what my brothers and I achieved when we were youngsters and jacked up my neighbor's automatic garage door opener!

[beensince1987]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 7:48pm

I was watching some late NBC show after SNL last night that girl was interviewing Jenn then Reeve was showing her some Spiderman poses. Then he showed her web-shooting pose. I didn't see any web-shooting in SM.

Isn't that how spiderman could be in the air to begin with, using web from his wrists?

[willheim2]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 7:48pm

I am sorry about your first broadway experience with your nephews. what a drag.

the show really is, well, not working for me anyway...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-reviews/8306871/Spider-Man-Turn-off-the-Dark-the-not-so-super-hero-of-Broadway.html

[TheatreDork3]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 8:32pm

First, I admit that I have been a huge Spiderman critic. Actually, I joined BroadwayWorld.com as a result of seeing the show on December 8th and was quite critical of the show and have been ever since that time.

With that out of the way, I saw the show again Friday (2/4/11) and the show is a lot better. The actors are more comfortable on stage. They aren't pausing for laugh lines (even when a line should have been chopped two months ago). As a whole, the cast (and artistic team) have clearly done a lot of work on the show. And from what Reeve told me after the show in passing, there's still changes to be made going into the show in the next couple of weeks.

With that said, I'm giving the show a solid "B" at this point. I still think some of the songs are asinine, but I wasn't completed left dumb-struck at any specific moment (this may be because I expected the more asinine moments - Bullied by Numbers, Deeply Furious, etc.).

As for the new ending, dear god is it stronger than the original ending. Here are the changes I thought were spot-on:

1)The subway runs of the railway only one time right when the bridge is lowered. It no longer looks like something out of Mr. Rogers.

2) When Arachne confronts the editor in the Daily Bugle scene, she now has all eight legs. No more miraculous and unexplained change into a human. Also, she now has her furies tie up Jameson and she's able to just look menacing. On a side note - TV is really good. I found her much stronger in the role than the middle Arachne, which was the one I saw after the first one had the concussion.

3) While the "Spiderman doesn't do musicals" joke is still in the script, Carney didn't pause for a laugh. There were a few chuckles, but no groans this time (myself included).

4) The ending. We finally have one. While I think the ending is still problematic, it's nice to see that the show does get tied up more completely. Having another bout of Spidey flying at the end really kind of ends the show on a higher note. Albeit the Toby Macguire Movie screen kiss ending is a wee bit cheesy, but I thought it worked and definitely made the audience laugh and clap.

As for problem areas that I still see:

1) There really isn't a good explanation for how Parker's kiss helps free Arachne to venture on to the after life.

2) There's a big new net that Spiderman gets to play on - kind of cool. Though it got stuck during the performance. The theater was dark and then a handful of flashlights started coming up from beneath the stage. Then two more stagehands came to free the net with a big knife. Obviously, this is a little bit of a snafu that needs some working (may have just been a fluke).

3) Again, I still think the score is the weakest part of the show. I think there are a couple of good songs, but the majority of them are just forgetable or laughable.

4) Jennifer Damiano still underutilized.

5) Geek chorus just sits on the side of the stage for a good chunk of the show. Be nice - let them backstage when not really being utilized.

Overall, with the exception of the ending, most of the show is pretty much as I saw it back in December. I was hoping that songs would have been chopped and new songs added, but I really saw no real indication that this happened (except at the end). While the show clearly needed an ending, I still think the show has some major flaws throughout. However, it's definitely a much cleaner show, and I think it's just clean enough to run for a long time. I wouldn't count Spidey out just yet.

Just as a random side note, the friend I went with (who had not seen the show previously) actually really liked Arachne and said the second act was more enjoyable than the first. But then, he also didn't think Deeply Furious was that bad.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 10:14pm

So, the show hasn't changed from the first time you saw it, except for the new ending which is just Spidey swinging around the theatre, and the music still sucks but you give it a solid 'B'?

Okay...



I think the UK review summed it up nicely:

"Never mind turning off the dark. I spent much of this dreadful new musical muttering Please, Lord, make it stop"

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:11pm

I don't mind that many - most - people here don't like the show. I do think that your attitude to anyone who says something positive is really deplorable.

I have read all the posts here bashing the show without making those people who wrote those comments feel like they're sub human.

Some of you really are riedel. Get a life.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:18pm

How you feel about something is up to you and not my worry.

And no one is using your word, but you.

[KirbyCat]

Posted: 2/6/11 at 11:54pm

TheatreDork3, THANK YOU for actually stating what has been changed!
Could you elaborate more on the finale? What happens exactly?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 2/7/11 at 2:45am

And again, Mr. Briefer, he's questioning what was said: he gave it a "solid B" but then goes on to talk about some pretty major things that are negative. Doesn't SOUND like something that would get a "B".

He wasn't bashed for his opinion, but his rationale. (and he still wasn't bashed.)

For the record, I had the same exact thought upon reading his review -- how can he give that a B with those comments. His GRADE was sort of positive, yet his comments were not.