Why Has Gypsy Never Been a Big Hit?

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 5:57pm

Constantly referred to as the greatest / one of the greatest musicals ever.  Original production starred arguably the biggest musical star ever, the revivals have mostly been driven by big Broadway names (Lansbury, Peter’s, Lupone, MacDonald), yet if you think about it the only one that ever made it to a replacement was Tyne Daly.

Great musical score, a lot of famous songs, a good amount of humor.  Thunderous applause from every audience I have ever been with.  

So why?

You could say overexposure, but the total number of performances ever played by Gypsy on Broadway are probably less that the original run of Man of LaMancha?

Revivals don’t last that long…the original production ran the most and it was still only 700 performances.  (Admittedly a longer run in those days, but still 1/2 as much as The Sound of Music).

Rose is too off-putting as a lead role?  Audiences don’t like her?

I would be interested in other people’s opinions.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:16pm

"That show looks like it's for theatre people" 

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:27pm

Hasn't almost every Sondheim musical not recouped its investment until just recently?

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:29pm

I agree it’s very well put together. I think it’s just not a great “family outing” musical.

The Sound of Music, The Music Man, TLK, Wicked, all have appeal to kids and families.

Long runs like Phantom, Les Mis, A Chorus Line etc might not be great for kids but they’ve grabbed the adult audience in unique ways all their own.

Gypsy is neither great for the kids nor a unique “must see!” piece. To see a stressed-out mom, people can just go to the grocery store. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:34pm

TheatreFan4 said: "Hasn't almost every Sondheim musical not recouped its investment until just recently?"

GYPSY isn’t a Sondheim show - he wrote the lyrics. Jule Styne composed the music.  Same as WEST SIDE STORY (music composed by Leonard Bernstein). 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:36pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "TheatreFan4 said: "Hasn't almost every Sondheim musical not recouped its investment until just recently?"

GYPSY isn’t a Sondheim show - he wrote the lyrics. Jule Styne composed the music. Same as WEST SIDE STORY (music composed by Leonard Bernstein)."

Wow how do you know such deep cut lore 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:46pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "TheatreFan4 said: "Hasn't almost every Sondheim musical not recouped its investment until just recently?"

GYPSY isn’t a Sondheim show - he wrote the lyrics. Jule Styne composed the music. Same as WEST SIDE STORY (music composed by Leonard Bernstein)."

Are... are Lyrics not an important part of both of those shows? Like its usually 3-4 components. Book, Music, Lyrics, Choreo... 

Am I insane for calling it a Sondheim Musical or is he being needlessly pedantic?

[Kad]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:50pm

TheatreFan4 said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "TheatreFan4 said: "Hasn't almost every Sondheim musical not recouped its investment until just recently?"

GYPSY isn’t a Sondheim show - he wrote the lyrics. Jule Styne composed the music. Same as WEST SIDE STORY (music composed by Leonard Bernstein)."

Are... are Lyrics not an important part of both of those shows? Like its usually 3-4 components. Book, Music, Lyrics, Choreo...

Am I insane for calling it a Sondheim Musical or is he being needlessly pedantic?"

Well, considering songs from both Gypsy and WSS are regularly included in Sondheim revues and in his own Finishing the Hat book…

[bear88]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 6:59pm

I will take a stab at this, because while I’m familiar with Gypsy, have heard all the songs before and read Stephen Sondheim’s lyrics in Finishing the Hat, I only saw the musical in person for the first time in April. (I got a lot more interested in stage musicals about a decade ago.)

Inside of Gypsy’s big Broadway musical (large cast, big orchestra) is an art show with an anti-hero star at its center. Rose is often a compelling character but she is never a very sympathetic one. A running joke in the musical is Rose’s repeated use of the exact same melody with altered lyrics and costumes. It’s funny in person but as someone who first heard it on a cast recording, I worried I would find it insufferable.

The most famous song to regular people is ‘Everything’s Coming Up Roses.’ But in context, it’s a disturbing song that illustrates Rose’s anger and delusional thinking, transferring her hopes for June onto Louise. ‘Rose’s Turn’ is the masterpiece, but it’s basically a nervous breakdown in the form of snippets of songs.

The other characters revolve around Rose. June disappears by the end of the first act. Louise is mousy, disinterested in show business, and doesn’t appear to have any talent until the very end. Herbie is Rose’s enabler. No one comes to see Gypsy to see any of them, even if the actors do a great job.

Gypsy is a smartly constructed musical and I personally enjoyed it a lot. But it’s not a show that’s really designed for a mass audience of people who aren’t theater fans. It assumes a certain amount of knowledge of, and interest in, the evolution of vaudeville during the 20th century and other forms of popular entertainment.

I saw Funny Girl, Jule Styne’s other backstage musical on tour, and I was surprised. While the lyrics lack Sondheim’s wit, the songs are better than I expected. The leading lady has to carry that musical too, but she is more sympathetic, especially to a mass audience. A hopeful, then brokenhearted but resilient woman is more appealing than Rose.

It’s telling to me that the only time a Gypsy revival apparently broke even on Broadway was when it cast an actress best known as a TV star (Tyne Daly) as Rose. Every other time, producers have picked a Broadway star. That makes sense as a creative choice but not a commercial one.

Updated On: 7/6/25 at 06:59 PM

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 7:00pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "he wrote the lyrics.”

 

 

Thereby making it… a Sondheim show.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 7:07pm

I was actually thinking about this the other day. Gypsy is a show I say I respect more than I love. The score is great. Rose is undeniably one of the great theatrical roles of all time. It's a tightly constructed show that I have few faults with. But it wouldn't crack my top 10 favorite musicals. Maybe not even top 20. I would rank some lesser shows above it, in terms of sheer enjoyment. 

Rose has been compared to Hamlet in terms of great roles... but I kind of feel about Gypsy the way I do about Hamlet, the play. A great work of art... but not one I am in love with. 

[KrupYou]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 7:11pm

GREAT QUESTION - is the story too dark for a long run?

Maybe the quality of the writing is just too complex for  broad audience. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 7:41pm

I think the simplest answer is it's the best example of a divide between people who are into theater and people who may attend theater but aren't "theater people." The first group of people attend a lot of theater, probably are involved in it themselves (whether professionally or in schools/community theaters), post on message boards and read books, etc. The latter group might attend in their own community or see a few Broadway shows but aren't theater needs, so to speak.

Hello Dolly or The Music Man get performed in every HS in America so pretty much anyone going to the theatre knows it. Then slap a big name on a big revival and you easily have a hit. But Gypsy? Despite being considered a "classic," it doesn't get a lot of play from high school or community theater comparatively. And on top of that, LuPone/Peters/McDonald are household Broadway names but they're not names like Bette Midler or Hugh Jackman to the casual audience member.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 8:06pm

I can't remember where he said it, but Sondheim once referred to Gypsy as a show about how your parents destroy your life and then you get to take care of them. That's probably a good enough reason why the show has never had the mass appeal of some of the other musicals of its era. 

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 8:08pm

Can we define hit? Because Tynes made money and was awarded well.  

[bear88]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 9:01pm

SmokeyLady said: "Can we define hit? Because Tynes made money and was awarded well. "

The OP said the Tyne Daly revival was financially successful. I would argue that the producers’ decision to hire a TV star, instead of a Broadway name, was a major factor. It’s the one time that happened.

Maybe that’s too simplistic an explanation (I’m sure there were other reasons). But 34 years after that production closed, it’s very easy to see the drawing power of a familiar TV or movie name for revivals. And while Cagney and Lacey was a relatively modest hit for its era, that was also a time when network TV audiences were huge.

Updated On: 7/6/25 at 09:01 PM

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 9:38pm

It's also a classic broadway show that doesn't have any big spectacle moments.

There's no Shipoopi or June is Busting Out all Over

The dancing isn't why you're really there. 

It's a dark story that just kinda gets sadder and sadder as it goes on

The draw is "Look who's playing Rose" 

It's great but it's also basically a chamber piece.

 

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 9:42pm

I think another component is that each production is so molded and marketed around the leading lady. It makes replacing her when she leaves a more daunting task. 

[merle57]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 10:49pm

The original Merman production was a hit, made very good money, and sold well to the movies (enabling Sondheim to buy his Turtle Bay house), and the movie made money as well.

The Lansbury revival was a major hit in London, then toured the US making major money before doing a limited engagement on Broadway which sold out. That revival made big money. The Tyne Daly revival made money. 

The revivals that have not made money are the Bernadette Peters, Patti Lupone, and the current Audra revivals. Why?  Perhaps the show has been revived too often - it comes back more than Carol Channing did in Hello, Dolly! or Yul Brynner did during the 1970s in King and I. Perhaps it is overexposed on Broadway with a limited shelf life because only hardcore theatre fans want to see the newest diva do a revival five years after the last one -- it is not something the general theatre-going public is as interested in. 

The show is not a staple of high school, college or community theatre because it requires one major leading lady with a clarion belt  voice who sings 9 major songs  -- and most high schools, colleges, and community theaters do not have such a singer actress. There are no production numbers for a large cast, which is a requirement of high school theatre to involve as many children as possible.  Colleges do not do it because it requires an entire mini-chorus of little girls and boys for those vaudeville routines which colleges do not have in their theatre programs.

The show focuses on a tragic story of parental aggression and delusion, living through one's children which is not a "feel good" evening.

The more problematic issue for high schools, colleges, and community theatre groups is Act 2 subject matter: three strippers celebrating bumping and grinding, followed by Gypsy forced to transform from innocence into a "first class stripper" because of her mother';s ambitions  -- that's unsettling and distasteful to most high school moms and dads.  Community theaters don't find this family friendly at the box office -- not a show to bring the little kids to.

With Music Man, audience kids march around afterwards, but  with Gypsy kids will imitate the bumps and grinds ... not mom and dad's ideal. 

I think it is wrong to consider the show a "Sondheim flop" that loses money because West Side Story, Gypsy, Funny Thing...Forum, Company, Night Music, Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods made profits if not on Broadway, then during the tours.  None was a smash in the Hello, Dolly sense, but not many shows are.  

Gypsy has made good money throughout the years, just not the fourth, fifth and sixth revivals which still have enjoyed good runs, just not enough to pay back the cost of the full production.It is not a cheap show to do.  But  several My Fair Lady and Camelot revivals have not made their costs back either. Larger shows are hard to pay off these days and require capacity runs for well over a year. 

 

[Mskuphantm]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 10:57pm

I still wished Arthur Laurents didnt impose his view on the Sam Mendes Revival with Bernadette Peters, it could have made even more people come and see it than not especially given what could have been a darker artistic producition.  The Arthur Laurents Revival while freshened things up a bit, was made better by the group of actors chosen, Leigh Ann Larkin alone in her characterization of June, from not only If Momma was Married, but the subtle facial expressions througnout her scenes.  

Updated On: 7/6/25 at 10:57 PM

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 7/6/25 at 11:02pm

Oh, and the title tells you nothing.

The posters always tell you nothing.

Lady in front of red curtain every time. 

It doesn't sell itself beyond if you specifically want the star

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/7/25 at 1:16am

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "Oh, and the title tells you nothing.

The posters always tell you nothing.

Lady in front of red curtain every time.

It doesn't sell itself beyond if you specifically want the star"

You gotta get a gimmick!

[bear88]

Posted: 7/7/25 at 3:51am

merle57 said: "The original Merman production was a hit, made very good money, and sold well to the movies (enabling Sondheim to buy his Turtle Bay house), and the movie made money as well.

The Lansbury revival was a major hit in London, then toured the US making major money before doing a limited engagement on Broadway which sold out. That revival made big money.The Tyne Daly revival made money.

The revivals that have not made money are the Bernadette Peters,Patti Lupone, and the current Audra revivals. Why? Perhaps the show has been revived too often - it comes back more than Carol Channing did in Hello, Dolly! or Yul Brynner did during the 1970s in King and I. Perhaps it is overexposed on Broadway with a limited shelf life because only hardcore theatre fans want to see the newest diva do a revival five years after the last one -- it is not something the general theatre-going public is as interested in.

The show is not a staple of high school, college or community theatre because it requires one major leading lady with a clarion beltvoice who sings 9 major songs -- and most high schools, colleges, and community theaters do not have such a singer actress. There are no production numbers for a large cast, which is a requirement of high school theatre to involve as many children as possible. Colleges do not do it because it requires an entire mini-chorus of little girls and boys for those vaudeville routines which colleges do not have in their theatre programs.

Theshow focuses on a tragic story of parental aggression and delusion, living through one's children which is not a "feel good" evening.

The more problematic issue for high schools, colleges, and community theatre groups is Act 2 subject matter: three strippers celebrating bumping and grinding, followed by Gypsy forced to transformfrom innocenceinto a "first class stripper" because of her mother';s ambitions -- that's unsettling and distasteful to most high school moms and dads.Community theaters don't find this family friendly at the box office -- not a show to bring the little kids to.

With Music Man, audience kids march around afterwards, butwith Gypsy kids will imitate the bumps and grinds ... not mom and dad's ideal.

I think it is wrong to consider the show a "Sondheim flop" that loses money because West Side Story, Gypsy, Funny Thing...Forum, Company, Night Music, Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods made profits if not on Broadway, then during the tours. None was a smash in the Hello, Dolly sense, but not many shows are.

Gypsy has made good money throughout the years, just not the fourth, fifth and sixth revivals which still have enjoyed good runs, just not enough to pay back the cost of the full production.It is not a cheap show to do. But severalMy Fair Lady and Camelot revivals have not made their costs back either. Larger shows are hard to pay off these days and require capacity runs for well over a year.

These are fair points. Gypsy was a consistent moneymaker, in its original production, in the movie, in the Lansbury touring production that included a Broadway run, and with Tyne Daly.

It’s only when you get into the 21st century - with the 4th, 5th and 6th Broadway productions, without a TV or movie star as the lead - that it runs into trouble succeeding as a commercial venture. That doesn’t seem all that surprising when you think about it. And the costs of a full-scale musical revival these days are prohibitive. 

[quizking101]

Posted: 7/7/25 at 7:27am

bear88 said: “It’s telling to me that the only time aGypsyrevival apparently broke even on Broadway was when it cast an actress best known as a TV star (Tyne Daly) as Rose. Every other time, producers have picked a Broadway star. That makes sense as a creative choice but not a commercial one."

Worth noting that, prior to her renaissance as a Broadway/TV star, Lansbury was a prolific film actress and nominated for 3 Academy Awards 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/7/25 at 12:01pm

I did say ‘big hit’, not hit.  I associate the words ‘big hit’ with big profits and longer runs than Gypsy has ever had.

Re the Sondheim musical point, I do think that Gypsy has a larger number of widely recognized songs than any Sondheim show I can think of, so to me it is more a Jules Styne musical than a Steven Sondheim one. I thing — and I am only opining here, nor trying to diminish the importance of lyrics— that John Q. Public is sucked in more by the music than the lyrics.