Steven Spielberg, keep ben Platt away from the west side story remake — Page 4

haterobics said: "This thread is becoming quite a lot for Spielberg to parse. Can someone sum it up in a nice bulleted list for him? There is no use having this power in casting if we're not going to take it seriously."

Don't worry, I've been texting Steve the highlights.

lovebwy said: "MCfan2 said: "Aw, poor Beymer! I think he's rather charming in the film. It's not the greatest performance ever, but it's not THAT bad."

Go watch it. He's completely out of his element. He's just not Tony at all. Watch his walk during the Maria scene. Sorry, but I see what he means with the "fruit" comment.

Frankly, I don't think Wood was that great either. It shows you how great the movie is that it overcame two weak leads. What makes it great are Rita Moreno, Russ Tamblyn, and George Chakaris. And the Robbins dancing scenes, and of course, the music.





"

Funny you say that, I actually just rewatched this yesterday because it happened to be on TV. And I agree with you 100%.

BroadwayConcierge said: "Also, if they want to go for an experienced unknown, they should cast Austin Colby, who was an earth-shattering Tony at Signature Theatre in D.C. two years ago.

"

I NEED to see this kind of casting in a musical movie. It's time for quality, respect to the artform and real acting through real singing. On screen.

Peter2 said: "But his habit of turning everything he sings into a kind of speech-song to me seems fundamentally misguided (something to grow out of, maybe) and ultimately a distracting mannerism.

In a song like "Maria," Tony can basically just stand there, throw his full voice into the melody, and let the music do the acting for him."

I think you hit the nail on its head here.

Many people nowadays completely fail to understand this. They do not realize what makes acting through song truthful. It's not speech-song and toning it down. It's the opposite. The notes and music do the acting too. No need for distraction.

Especially in movies they fail to get it right. The 10th and 25th anniversary concerts of les Mis are more filmic and realistically acted than the actual film. Isn't that weird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4NNlEPraKo

Updated On: 3/20/18 at 07:36 PM

I don't know how many times I've spoken to non-musical fans who actually prefer the non-trained singer version of songs over legit voices. I think it's because they, and many of the general audiences, aren't used to hearing legit sopranos, tenors, baritones, and have a hard time understanding the lyrics. Also, some times people think legit sounding voices takes them out of the story because the actors' voices become singing voices as opposed to that of the "character" and prefer a movie actor renditions because they felt it was more in-character. Plus on film, it's actually probably better to lower the keys a bit because we require more realism in film, even in some of more fantastical stories, than we do in theatre where audiences are able to suspend disbelief a lot more. And it's a much more intimate medium and that doesn't require so much singing out to convey the same emotion that a look or a close-up can do. Of course, there are always exceptions and sometimes those who sing full-out and the way the score was written can work on film and some times dumbed-down versions of songs don't work anyway.

Updated On: 3/16/18 at 08:15 PM

lovebwy said: "I think what's amazing about Ben's performance here is that he's acting it beautifuly and singing it beautifuly. To me, his voice is angelic, and his version of Maria is the best I ever heard. Maybe o e or two small pitchy moments, but other than that, amazing.

People are ignoring my posts on this for some reason. Help me out here!

Could it be that not ever having seen him perform before, I'm reading acting the part, where others are seeing his typical annoying mannerisms? Or is there just a general backlash (which I've seen at times with Patti) that I'm unaware Of?

All I can tell you guys is going in cold not knowing the first thing about him I was blown the eff away."

i agree with you, i think he’s very talented and has a terrific voice.



also, someone mentioned the masses not liking movie musicals... i’ve always assumed this had to do with deeply instilled homophobia and sexism, and viewing musicals as unmanly.

lovebwy,

People aren't really responding to your posts because there's not really much to say. You really enjoyed that performance and it moved you to tears. Anybody who disliked the performance or disagrees with you are being nice by respecting your opinion and does not want ruin the experience that seems really important to you. We all have things that move us. For example, I think Beymer works for how the movie wanted to portray Tony by playing up the romanticism of his character rather than the former gang leader part. Your dislike of it is valid as is me watching his walk that you criticized so deeply about 10 times since you mentioned it here because I seriously enjoyed it that much among other WSS clips on YouTube...including the beautiful book scene during "One Hand, One Heart" which I felt was Beymer and Wood's best scene and the film's most heartfelt and most tragic scene in hindsight.

Sondheimite said: "I'll never understand the "wE nEeD REAAAALLL tAlEnT tHaT cAn SiNg In MoViE mUsIcAlSsdnajfhaewruj" people. Because that's never been the case. First, it was dubbing. Now it'smeh singing.

I don't think some of you understand that film is a different artform. And movie musicals have ALWAYS been done with actors and the singing has been compensated because theatre actors are rarely brilliant film actors. It's a different genre AND A DIFFERENT MARKET.

Please be aware that most people don't like musicals. To make them go to a musical film, they have to have a "reason" and that reason is often the casting.

You can rail against the way it's done (and has always been done) but you're beating your fist into steel: you'll never beat it and you'll just bloody up your fist uselessly.

And you can tell me I'm wrong but I'm factually not and history will continue to show that."

I think your post is disconnected from reality.

First, it definitely has not always been done like you describe. Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music for example. Olivia Newton John in Grease for example. Barbra Streisand in Funny Girl for example. Also in animated films, Lea Salonga in Aladdin for example. All this natural, real singing has always worked extremely well, in fact, it's the only musicalfilms that stand the test of time.

I also think you have a lack of understanding how people watch singing and music. Nobody ever complained about Olivia Newton John's natural singing and acting. On screen. People listen to music all day. The can handle it and they want it. This clip is the perfect example, and the Les Miserable clips in particular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4NNlEPraKo

What music on film does not need is a disconnect and forcing audiences to switch between 2 languages (speech and song), sometimes multiple times in 1 line, especially in dialogue. As you can see in the Les Mis clips above. THAT is what makes people hate musicals, because it does not feel natural. Natural singing feels natural. Constant switching makes it feel theatrical and like posing.

The Les Mis film clips are sung in a way too theatrical way. Forced, posed, and unnatural switches. The concert clips are more filmic and feel natural. In this clip. On screen. It does not need the extra sauce and distraction.

If people like you, and general audiences would understand this a bit more, they would learn that they actually do not dislike movie musicals, if it would have been sung naturally.

It is a cause and result situation.

We need to educate audiences about what is quality and what works, and not bow for insecurity and cast people who make sure everybody will never want to see another musical film after that. Which is a shame because they are misled.

What you really don't understand is something else than what you think you don't understand.

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 06:19 AM

bk said: "I'll help you out: I have no idea what in his version of this song gets to you - what is moving you
"

It must be the fact that he looks so uncomfortable that he is breaking down in tears at any moment. They did this trick in the Les Mis film too and it seems to work with some people.

Dave28282 said: "
We need to educate audiences about what is quality and what works, and not bow for insecurity and cast people who make sure everybody will never want to see another musical film after that. Which is a shame because they are misled.

What you really don't understand is something else than what you think you don't understand.""

Who is this "we"? Do you produce big budget musical films? It is the job of those films, in the literal since, to entertain and make money. Really just to make money. That's the bottom line. I'm also looking for some facts behind this statement: Mamma Mia had horrible singing in it's film. It made a boat load of money and is getting a second film. Where are the audience members, in droves, who "never want to see another musical film"? You are taking your opinion and spreading it as though it is universal fact. Have your opinion, lord knows you've been b!tching about the Les Miserables film for so long that long time posters are numb to it and tune you out. But your opinion does NOT reflect that of the general public. It never has, it never will.

The Other One said: ""What do you think are other great examples of the lip-singing art?"

Dorothy Dandridge in Carmen Jones. Marilyn Horne did the singing, but it's all in synch to the character."



Oh, yes! And interestingly, I have seen Horne do master classes on multiple occasions, and she often criticizes young singers for “going out of your voice.” Performers do it to sound expressive, I think, but it usually comes off as amateurish. Lean INTO the music, not away from it, and give the notes full value!