Steven Spielberg, keep ben Platt away from the west side story remake- Page 5

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 12:28pm

Sondheimite said: "But your opinion does NOT reflect that of the general public. It never has, it never will."

Well, even you said the singing in films nowadays is "meh", and that most people do not like musicals.

I'm just saying what the cause of that is, as it's a cause/result situation. Especially since people in general love to listen to music and singing since lord knows when. People are used to hearing stories through song, because that's what music is. Have you ever heard complaints about real good, naturally sung music in films? Of course the genre is not for everybody, but when it's done, why not do it right. 

At least the songs in Mama Mia were pre-recorded, which immediately gives it a more filmic, better than life feel, which lifts te scenes and is essential for this artform on film, a not too literal approach because it per definition is about sung thoughts, but it could have been better. Do you really think that if there would be a remake of The Sound of Music, that we need to hear Maria speak and moan her lines in the first song and then use a theatrical vibrato on the last word of a line, but definitely no quality singing to make it extra real and relatable for the current audience? Is that the right path for the arftorm of storytelling through song? Or do we need an actress incapable of singing, and suck the life out of the essence of the artform? Why?

I know many people who did not buy the film or soundtrack because it was too flawed and people were rolling their eyes at Meryl Streep's solo etc. Yes, the film did well because many people don't care, but many people do. Wouldn't it be great to have their enthusiasm too? Then they would have sold more copies. 
 

Mamma mia and Beauty and the beast are an insult to the arform, but have great cinematography to somewhat please both audiences. The Phantom of The Opera and Les Mis were just barbaric insults to all audiences. The Sound Of Music and Grease were loved by all audiences. (General public and lovers of the genre, so Julie and Olivia must have done something right).

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 12:28 PM

[theaterdarling]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 12:40pm

Wow. Ben Platt surely has talent. But, as we now know, deductively, he also has a wheelhouse, so God bless him for putting himself way, way outside of it with this  video and risk the scrutiny of people like me. However, I am stunned that anyone would view this audition tape as anything other than bad. Among other sins, it is so self-regarding. This was, at best, Evan Hansen trying out  for the school play and is, shall we say, as misguided as Evan's other choices.

I kinda thought, at first, it was a joke and I missed that this was created as fake "lost footage" or as part of a dropped scene from DEH.  Rather, Mr. Platt's Tony win and press clippings of late (lead in Murphy's new show and collaboration with L-MM) seem to have gone to his head and he perhaps thought release of said video combined with the heat emanating from his other projects would create a groundswell of viral support for his casting. This had to be over his management team's belief that this performance was maybe not his finest hour but Ben thinking he would show them. Oops. Or, perhaps, for the greater good of the theater community, he  wanted to put to rest the Barrymore theory that "you can only be as good as you dare to be bad."  In that respect, mission accomplished.

I know we sometimes all have on crazily stupefying blinders with regard to our favorite performers--I, for example, believe that Aaron Tveit should be cast as Tony, Riff, Maria, Anita AND Bernardo, in the new film. However, that we can't come together as musical theater lovers, young, old, rich, poor, red state, blue state, "Carousel" deniers, "Carousel"  haters, and agree that BP's version of "Maria" by every objective measure is just plain wrong just rocks me to my core.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 12:54pm

theaterdarling said: "However, that we can't come together as musical theater lovers, young, old, rich, poor, red state, blue state, "Carousel" deniers, "Carousel" haters, and agree that BP's version of "Maria" by every objective measure is just plain wrong just rocks me to my core."

You've made my Saturday! 

[John Adams]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:07pm

theaterdarling said: "However, that we can't come together as musical theater lovers [...] and agree that BP's version of "Maria" by every objective measure is just plain wrong just rocks me to my core."

I don't know Ben Platt personally, so I don't know how big or small his ego is, but I can agree that (as posters have pointed up) in this vid, he appears to be playing more 'neurotic Evan' than 'leader of the Jets Tony'.

I can't throw out the baby with the bathwater, though. I found much more to like about his interpretation. Like others have implied about his characterization, I'm not a fan of a neurotic Evan/Tony, either. Still, if I put aside what I don't like, this is one of my favorite interpretations of the song.

"It is Orlofsky's motto: chacun à son goût!"

[lovebwy]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:25pm

theaterguy11 said:

Tony simply cannot be an eye sore. It would be a huge mistake to cast Ben Platt."

Come on, bro. Don't call him an eye sore. Its fine to say he isn't right for Tony, but that's not nice. And, by the way, if you look at the comments section on the video, many people, boys and girls alike, disagree with you.

bk said:
I'll help you out: I have no idea what in his version of this song gets to you - what is moving you to tears for God's sake. 

Just that I feel it's the first time I've seen the song performed as it is in the context of the play- a 16 year old who's just been gobsmacked by something he's can't quite comprehend. It brought me back to that time in my own life. Platt is just glorious here.
 

But you're continual dissing of Mr. Beymer and Ms. Wood is kind of nauseating. 

Natalie Wood isn't nearly as bad as Beymer, just kinda weak. Though, he final speech is quite good, so many sins are forgiven. And, I love her in other things. In Gypsy she's sensational. Richard Beymer, however, in WSS, is what we used to call in show business a train wreck. I'm sure he's wonderful in the other movies you mentioned, and like I said he's great in both versions of Twin Peaks.

gypsy 101 said:

i agree with you, i think he’s very talented and has a terrific voice.

Thank you! Finally! I thought I was going insane for a second!

Scotty said

Your dislike of it is valid as is me watching his walk that you criticized so deeply about 10 times since you mentioned it here...

I only mentioned it once, but okkkkk

John Adams said:

If this is the one, I LOVE his interpretation of the song! I particularly like how he whispers, and plays with the name, "Maria" like he's testing it, exploring it and trying the name from different angles. 

Yes yes a thousand times yes! And though saying the name, he's also trying to comprehend these feelings of euphoria, love, lust, and pain. He's been awakened by a feeling much larger than himself. THAT is what I see in Ben's performance that I haven't seen in others. It is very clear to me he worked HARD on this, and likely had someone directing him. It is exquisite. 

Thanks to all who responded to me. I have a much better understanding now. I think this particular line was VERY telling:

The only way Platt gets this is if his Daddy is producing, or the eventual producer owes his daddy a huge favor.

There definitely seems to be some anger and resentment towards this boy. Even jealousy. Not all, but some of the negative response to this stunningly beautiful rendition stems from that. Get over it, folks. He's amazing.

 

 

 

[Demitri2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:31pm

Hmmm....wonder if they've cast the role of Anybodys yet? 

[John Adams]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:41pm

lovebwy said: "There definitely [ ] seems to be some anger and resentment towards this boy. Even jealousy."

Ya know... I considered posting a similar comment regarding implied nepotism. Like, perhaps some folks feel that Platt would be nowhere/nothing if it weren't for his "Daddy" influencing his hiring.

Even if that's the truth (regarding nepotism and/or how Platt came to initially be cast), I choose to overlook it. Subject to personal tastes of others, I happen to like his work. So if it took his Daddy's influence to get his face and his talents (as I perceive them, anyways) in front of my eyes, I'm OK with that. Worked for me...!

[lovebwy]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:45pm

John Adams said: 
Even if that's the truth (regarding nepotism and/or how Platt came to initially be cast), I choose to overlook it. Subject to personal tastes of others, I happen to like his work.

Alls I know is I watched this video without knowing anything about who his father was, or how he got to where he is, or even about his show. In that context, going in cold, his performance blew me away, and made me cry.

I think when you go into something angry and bitter, you've already made up your mind. Once I saw the "Daddy" comment, I suddenly understood the weird amount of vitriol and negativity. 

Seems some people are jelly.

 

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 01:45 PM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:50pm

theaterdarling said: "Wow. Ben Platt surely has talent. But, as we now know, deductively, he also has a wheelhouse, so God bless him for putting himself way, way outside of it with this video and risk the scrutiny of people like me. However, I am stunned that anyone would view this audition tape as anything other than bad. Among other sins, it is so self-regarding. This was, at best, Evan Hansen trying out for the school play and is, shall we say, as misguided as Evan's other choices.

I kinda thought, at first, it was a joke and I missed that this was created as fake "lost footage" or as part of a dropped scene from DEH. Rather, Mr. Platt's Tony win and press clippings of late (lead in Murphy's new show and collaboration with L-MM) seem to have gone to his head and he perhaps thought release of said video combined with the heat emanating from his other projects would create a groundswell of viral support for his casting. This had to be over his management team's belief that this performance was maybe not his finest hour but Ben thinking he would show them. Oops. Or, perhaps, for the greater good of the theater community, he wanted to put to rest the Barrymore theory that "you can only be as good as you dare to be bad." In that respect, mission accomplished.

I know we sometimes all have on crazily stupefying blinders with regard to our favorite performers--I, for example, believe that Aaron Tveit should be cast as Tony, Riff, Maria, Anita AND Bernardo, in the new film. However, that we can't come together as musical theater lovers, young, old, rich, poor, red state, blue state, "Carousel" deniers, "Carousel" haters, and agree that BP's version of "Maria" by every objective measure is just plain wrong just rocks me to my core."

 

How does one objectively measure said performance if it's based in an art form that can have no "right" or "wrong" opinion/interpretation? 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 2:33pm

lovebwy said: "Richard Beymer hates himself in West Side Story. He never shows to reunions, and refuses to talk about it.

Natalie Wood wanted Warren Beatty to play Tony. They were dating at the time. Natalie didn't get her way, so consequently Wood was mean to Beymer, and after filming started campaigned to have him fired. She would only speak to him when they were filming.

This led to him being very self conscious and nervous on the set. And I don't know what Robert Wise was thinking, he appears to not have been directed at all.

Here's what he had to say:

“I was miserable in West Side Story,” he recalls. “They really miscast me. I came from the mid-West; what they really needed was a guy that was street smart. The first time I saw the movie, I had to walk out. I looked like the biggest fruit that ever walked on to film. My character was so weak.”

And now you know the rest of the story.


Natalie Wood and Warren Beatty were not dating while she was filming West Side Story, she was still very much married to Robert Wagner - there are pictures of both of them together on the set when he visited. She did suggest Warren after having worked with him on Splendor in the Grass and actually the producers originally wanted him and viewed a scene from Splendor - which had not been released yet to see if he fit the role. It was in viewing that scene t that they discovered Natalie and immediately offered her the role of Maria.

Natalie and Robert Wagner separated soon after filming on West Side wrapped....Warren who was engaged to Joan Collins at the time had broken up with her by then and then that’s when Warren and Natalie began dating. 

They were together for two years and that relationship nearly destroyed her.




"

 

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 02:33 PM

[MCfan2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 3:00pm

I think Ben is very talented and deserving of his success, regardless of who his father is. I also think that the performance in this video wasn't one of his better ones. It is possible to think both.  

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 3:24pm

It's perfectly possible to not like someone's performance and not do so because you're expressing the desire to have that kind of talent (or family). 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 3:27pm

I am not a fan of Ben Plato’s rendition of Maria.  Nice try though...

[Withonelook2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 3:41pm

Ben Platt is not what envision Tony to be but I don’t think his version of Maria is that bad. I actually enjoyed it!

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 3:46pm

I loved the video. Not sure he’s right for Tony though. But let’s be clear, I think Ben is a good-looking guy. So that’s not why. And usually older actors seem to often play teenage characters in movie musicals (Grease, WSS). So as long as it’s cast right, I don’t care if the actors are chronologically teenagers as long as I can believe their performances. I just don’t know if Ben would be a good fit for Tony, but would love for him to prove me wrong. There’s no doubt that he is a talented guy. I do wonder why a masterpiece like WSS needs a remake. But I suppose EVERYTHING seems to need a remake or reboot or a sequel or prequel these days. But better I suppose that Spielberg make a major motion picture remake than this get another one of those horrid live tv special treatments.

[theaterdarling]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 4:37pm

How does one objectively measure said performance if it's based in an art form that can have no "right" or "wrong" opinion/interpretation?"

I truly appreciate and respect your larger point about subjectivity in art, but, there is SOME objective measure of art, music, theater, literature etc. or else  we would all be playing Carnegie Hall, my niece's watercolor painting would be hanging in the Louvre rather than on my refrigerator and I would have won the Pulitzer Prize. Why are some people accepted to Julliard and other's aren't? There are objective floors/measures.  There is strata of talent.  You can certainly enjoy Ben's performance and many in this thread do, but it does not mean it makes the cut on any professional grade and especially not as calling card for a lead role in a major motion musical remake. I don't know if this alone would get him into a major theater arts program.  Yes, certainly my OPINION, but I would argue that any art form has minimal standards and in Ben's interpretation of this song towards the goal of being cast as Tony, it doesn't reach that minimum and a general consensus could likely be formed as to this if you threw it out to the professional community for comment.  As I said at the beginning of my original post, Ben clearly has gifts but not for this.

At the end of the day, I don't think the part is going to a theater guy anyway, I believe they will Johnny Depp-itize/Meryl Streep-ize/Russell Crowe-ize the casting of Tony. A known young film actor who will secure their financing and for whom they will adjust the keys so the music is approachable. A mix of Latin pop stars and actors will likely factor in too - they will throw lesser roles to legit theater folks to pay respect. Too many social media eyes on are them to whitewash the other roles and they will do the right thing --at least this seemed to be the case per casting call.  Then again, I am one was who certain that the Broadway League would do the right thing and dim the lights for Jan Maxwell.

[Broadway Fan2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 5:11pm

Maybe we should give Ben Platt the benefit of the doubt. The guy is not chopped liver. DEH did (and is doing) well so IMOHO he was one of the reasons why it was a success. Maybe he needs a better setting for the audition tape. Looks like he just shot that video out of his parents’ basement, so he might’ve have a lot of distractions around (his Nintendo, Playstation, fish tank, lol). Jokes aside, I think he got a very nice voice. That being said, just a little off-topic, IMOHO it seems like it’s not easy for actors to transition from stage to TV and vice-versa. They usually open up themselves for scrutiny and criticisms when they do so, because we, the audience, is so used to them performing a certain craft/style. It certainly takes a little time to get adjusted to see them in a different light. Theater and TV are such two different monsters, many times one actor can be the biggest star on TV and flop on stage (same goes the other way). There are some actors who can master both vehicles very well though. Forgive me if I’m missing some other names, but at the top of my head, James Earl Jones, Angela Lansbury, Tyne Daly, Tovah Feldshuh and Laurie Metcalf are actors who can float both, stage and TV, and do well. But probably when they were young, they went through what Ben is going through right now. I’m sure they had to work really hard to be where they’re right now at this point in their careers. Just a last note, this topic's title "Steven Spielberg, keep ben Platt away from the west side story remake" by Call_me_jorge is just too funny, lol.

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 05:11 PM

[bk]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 5:28pm

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "I think there’s a shill here. Some of the posts in defense of Platt seem so calculated especially from somebody who supposedly knew nothing about him and needs to desperately engage in this topic to the point where they post about being ignored. Most people would just give their opinion and move on unless somebody engaged with them. Instead we have a poster who is begging people to respond to them and when people take the bait, they go off in classic Ben Platt fandom mode. No wonder you enjoyed this neurotic take on the song."

I was beginning to have the same thought - in fact, the first post out of this person whose moniker is a version of love Broadway professes to know absolutely nothing about Ben Platt.  Sorry, anyone who loves B'way would have to have been living under a rock not to know anything about Ben Platt - first of all, he's super talented and just played a huge career-changing role on - Broadway.  I would assume anyone who loves B'way would have seen him on the Tony Awards.  So, yes, something smells here, and the smell gets worse with each post.

 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 5:50pm

I admit that I have never been the biggest Spielberg fan, but I've gained bigger respect for him ever since Lincoln and I have always respected his craftsmanship. I do think if he tackles on WSS, it would be a much better product and more cinematic than if the last directors who tackled on movie musicals like Tom Hopper, Bill Condon, or Rob Marshall had done it.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/18/18 at 6:44am

Regardless of whether or not you think he is right for the part of Tony type wise, or like the tone of his voice, or can look past his neurotic mannerisms, etc, there is a bigger problem going on.

He is pulling a Hugh Jackman. He is overdoing it. He is underestimating the power of the song, this language and his voice and feels the need to put too much sauce over his performance and every line and "act out" each line on top of the singing too much, which feels doubly forced and fake.

I call it the "seed approach". Too much sauce, emphasis, exaggeration and distraction.

Therefore it feels like posturing and affected. By doing that he is essentially separating the acting from the singing. He might think he is combining it by the constant switching and exaggerating, but he is not.

"Schmiering" 2 lines, and then cut the last word short in a spoken way simply does not work. That's what makes people feel uncomfortable, laugh and talk down this artform.

This is by no means an insult to his talent, but I just think he is making wrong choices in this performance, because I have seen him doing other songs where he makes better choices. As you can see in the clip I posted, even Lea Salonga does it right sometimes and wrong sometimes. It's all about natural singing and "acting through it" instead of "in spite of it" by doing distracting things that create a disconnect.

 

Edit: Here is the link to that clip about the natural approach versus the seed approach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4NNlEPraKo

Updated On: 3/18/18 at 06:44 AM

[Peter2]

Posted: 3/18/18 at 9:47am

@Dave28282, I agree with everything you say. 

As for objective measures for the performance of a song, there is one: the written score. You can make your own interpretive choices, but you have to start by studying the instructions the composer put down on the printed page. 

[Peter2]

Posted: 3/18/18 at 3:12pm

(And rhythmically, from beginning to end Platt is everywhere except where Leonard Bernstein says he should be.)

[denali.fire]

Posted: 3/18/18 at 5:47pm

Where did that vibrato come from? Was it learned? Had Ben used the sweeter voice and falsetto as in DEH it might have really been beautiful.

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 3/18/18 at 7:55pm

While we're at it, keep Naya Rivera away from the West Side Story remake as well:

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/VIDEO-Naya-Rivera-Sings-America-in-WEST-SIDE-STORY-Audition-Video-20180318

Beyond the fact that she decided to sing "America" as if Anita was psychotic and super angry and possibly violent, Spielberg shouldn't hire her unless he wants somebody who gets into fights with cast members and talks crap about the production and other cast members in a tell-all.

That seriously an odd audition clip. She covers half her face for no reason so people can't see her expression and how she'd play the role and she only sings a few lines. It seems like she didn't really prepare or that this wasn't a serious audition tape but just something to provide her social media fans so they could mindlessly fawn over her for posting something.

Updated On: 3/18/18 at 07:55 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 3/18/18 at 7:57pm

I did think her vocals were better than his (though still not up to par) but yeah, her "acting" choice was baffling. It was like an angry version of "Happy Birthday, Mr. President."