Sweeney Todd... Sondheim's masterpiece?

Proof? As in?

The score itself is monumental - far better than any of his other shows.

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I certainly consider Sweeney Todd to be his masterpiece. As blaxx said, the breadth and depth of the score is stunning. You can listen to it all day, and each time discover something new. And while I think that Sondheim's lyrics for Sunday are wonderful, the lyrics for Sweeney Todd are genius.

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Updated On: 10/30/08 at 06:26 PM

I'd say either Sweeney or A Little Night Music. Personally, I find Night Music near flawless, just gorgeous music. However, Sweeney is so ambitious and overwhelming that it wins out.

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I don't think Sunday could ever be considered Sondheim's best show because of the second act.

Sweeney is just so amazing, and regarding Johanna/Anthony I think the innocence/almost ridiculousness of Anthony was intentional. At least that's what I feel; It's not a 'true' and 'genuine' love story subplot but just this naive 'irony'. (Well hardly Ironic, but I can't think of how to describe what I feel at all).

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I prefer the second act of SITPWG. It's like ITW - sure, you could present the first act on its own and have a lovely story, but it's the second act that gives it deeper meaning. I could listen to the song 'Putting It Together' all day.

I believe 'Sweeney Todd' is Sondheim's finest. In fact, I willingly say "I believe 'Sweeney Todd' is the best musical ever written". (I throw in "I believe" as a safeguard against "OMG opinions can't be right or wrong!" and also in recognition of the fact it's nigh-impossible to put one show above ALL others, but I do mean "best" as opposed to "favourite".) I don't have many issues with it (Johanna and Anthony are idiots, but I can overlook that) but the brilliance batters those into submission.

The score is wonderful; beautiful, rich, full, chilling, unsettling. It sounds FABULOUS played by a full symphony orchestra complete with pipe organ. But it also works and is totally effective when pared down and played by a handful of actors. Not all scores work so well when played by a lesser orchestra ('Les Mis' is coming unfortunately to mind), and the fact that 'Sweeney' does is testimony not only to Sarah Travis's hard work but also Sondheim's inarguable genius.

Some scores aren't technically very good, but given the right cast, they can be fabulous. 'Sweeney Todd' is the opposite; it's so sublime that even Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter's best efforts can't keep it down.

And y'know what? It's accessible. It's a show about serial killing, cannibalism, vengeance, and lies. And yet I clicked with it on my very first listen. Not all Sondheim is such easy work.

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Updated On: 10/30/08 at 06:51 PM

The Johanna/Anthony relationship is a satire: "I knew I'd be with you one day even not knowing who you were." It's poking fun at the convention of love at first sight.

To reiterate what Blaxx said, you already have the score...

But, I think it depends on how you want to define "masterpiece." If you want to define it by emotional impact, then that is very subjective. I consider "Follies" as the most emotional of all of Sondheim's work, but it has its flaws. And there is no doubt that’s part of what makes it such an emotionally impacting and personal score. However, if we consider “masterpiece” as a work of supreme artistic and intellectual skill (Merriam-Webster’s Online Dictionary), then the argument might become narrower. I honestly don't think “Sweeney’s” score has any flaws (possibly save for the rehashing of all “old” music in the final sequence, but I think it’s used in such a distinct partnership with the characters and book that it’s excusable), and there is such a depth and richness in the underscoring, as well as in the songs, which I think along with “A Little Night Music” (a close second) makes the score, especially when considering how it supports the libretto throughout the show, Sondheim's masterpiece. But, there are differences in Sondheim’s composing/writing for his scores in the 60s/70s compared to his scores of the 80s. “Sweeney Todd,” along with his earlier scores, has a more "linear" score and plot than shows such as “Sunday…” and “Into the Woods,” so I think that might add to why his “mastery” really shines through in “Sweeney’s” score. Finally, in my opinion, all of Sondheim's scores seem to be an experiment of his intellectual and artistic creativity in writing for musical theater (including musical comedy), but I think the mastery of Sondheim’s score for “Sweeney Todd” comes from its completeness and scope, which just goes "beyond" the artistic and intellectual accomplishments in the score for “Sunday in the Park With George.”

Echoing an important point mentioned above, I think "Sweeney Todd" is Sondheim's masterpiece for its sense of "completeness" -- it is a clear intellectual and artistic statement beginning to end. It's his one show where nothing can be added or edited without ruining its perfection.

(I'm of course only speaking of the stage show -- I know things were edited out of the film, but film is a different medium.)

While "Sunday" is certainly brilliant, it doesn't quite work the same way. Clearly, the first act can stand alone (as it did early on). And many find an artistic "dissonance" between the first and second acts -- while the second act has its high points, it still seems like an interesting afterthought, and not really an essential part of a greater whole.

Updated On: 10/30/08 at 07:43 PM

Why does he have to have only one masterpiece?

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Without a doubt, it's his masterpiece, the score has such depth and fits perfectly with every part of the story.

It was a masterpiece in its day.

Then again, so was I.

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double post!

Updated On: 10/30/08 at 10:03 PM