#101
Posted: 8/19/11 at 7:31pm
and subsequent donnings of horsehair shirts
The REAL Reason Barbour Left ROCKY HORROR — Page 5
#102
Posted: 8/19/11 at 7:50pm
I think it's also entirely possible both parties were equally guilty, and that is what, if I were a betting man, I would put money on. But Barbour, being the adult, and not by a small margin of years, is the one who should be held largely to blame. A 15-yr-old, despite what they themselves might think, largely does not know the world and repercussions of their actions. Seeking out pleasure but not understanding it, that sort of thing.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#103
Posted: 8/19/11 at 8:12pm
Once again, I don't think any of us are excusing Barbour's behavior. The girl was 15 when this happened and no adult has any excuse for sexual behavior with a minor.
David walked into the valley
With a stone clutched in his hand
He was only a boy
But he knew someone must take a stand
There will always be a valley
Always mountains one must scale
There will always be perilous waters
Which someone must sail
-Into the Fire
Scarlet Pimpernel
#104
Posted: 8/19/11 at 8:55pm
philly03's assertion
"Some people are impossible to please. To think that people are saying he is lying about what's going on with his personal life..."
is ridiculous given the fact that Barbour's already admitted in court that he's a liar, lied in a signed statement to the police, and it was about his personal life even then.
massofmen is correctly aware that there was more than one underage girl, which is what I recall reading in the stories at the time. And lo and behold I find this from NY Daily News:
"But prosecutors produced a secretly recorded tape in which Barbour referred to himself as "unethical." They also revealed that another woman has come forward accusing Barbour of sexually assaulting her in California when she was just 13."
Didn't do your homework, AC126748, did you, when you said:
"By all accounts, what Barbour did was an isolated incident; at least I don't remember any other victims coming forward ever, or hearing of any others."
What exactly were the "by all accounts" you checked, AC126748? Whose accounts, what accounts? A quick google would have found this article and the ADDITIONAL 13-YEAR-OLD CHILD. Would you doubt the prosecutors that she exists?
Now, the prosecutors finding a second (then) underage girl willing to come forward as a witness to testify of his similar behavior to her could be EVERY reason why BARBOUR and his lawyer gave up the ghost and concluded that he would be CONVICTED at a jury trial, and chose to plead out to obtain the benefit of not having to register as a sex offender.
NY Daily News
"Some people are impossible to please. To think that people are saying he is lying about what's going on with his personal life..."
is ridiculous given the fact that Barbour's already admitted in court that he's a liar, lied in a signed statement to the police, and it was about his personal life even then.
massofmen is correctly aware that there was more than one underage girl, which is what I recall reading in the stories at the time. And lo and behold I find this from NY Daily News:
"But prosecutors produced a secretly recorded tape in which Barbour referred to himself as "unethical." They also revealed that another woman has come forward accusing Barbour of sexually assaulting her in California when she was just 13."
Didn't do your homework, AC126748, did you, when you said:
"By all accounts, what Barbour did was an isolated incident; at least I don't remember any other victims coming forward ever, or hearing of any others."
What exactly were the "by all accounts" you checked, AC126748? Whose accounts, what accounts? A quick google would have found this article and the ADDITIONAL 13-YEAR-OLD CHILD. Would you doubt the prosecutors that she exists?
Now, the prosecutors finding a second (then) underage girl willing to come forward as a witness to testify of his similar behavior to her could be EVERY reason why BARBOUR and his lawyer gave up the ghost and concluded that he would be CONVICTED at a jury trial, and chose to plead out to obtain the benefit of not having to register as a sex offender.
NY Daily News
#105
Posted: 8/19/11 at 8:59pm
Call me when charges are filed. Until then, I'll consider it hearsay.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#106
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:03pm
And for someone who wrote "Barbour is nothing to me. i don't like him, I don't hate him," you seem unable to let this go. Maybe the different voices in your head have different opinions of Mr. Barbour.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#107
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:09pm
nomdeplume you really have way too much time on your hands with this topic. Are you the actress or her sister or what?
Clearly you got nothing out of Tale of Two Cities... Love is more powerful than hate. Clearly you got nothing out of Jane Eyre musical... Forgiveness is key.
The guy did his time and while I can't sit here and say we should praise him or even forget, why must it be so brutal. The facts of the case are sketchy to put it simply, we don't know EXACTLY what happened.
I get it you're not going to look aside, but I still think you're awfully pathetic about his wife's condition. You do not know him personally. You do not know her personally. You don't know the gravity of it, none of us do, it's none of our business.
Clearly you got nothing out of Tale of Two Cities... Love is more powerful than hate. Clearly you got nothing out of Jane Eyre musical... Forgiveness is key.
The guy did his time and while I can't sit here and say we should praise him or even forget, why must it be so brutal. The facts of the case are sketchy to put it simply, we don't know EXACTLY what happened.
I get it you're not going to look aside, but I still think you're awfully pathetic about his wife's condition. You do not know him personally. You do not know her personally. You don't know the gravity of it, none of us do, it's none of our business.
#108
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:23pm
philly03, you have been the one trying to take Barbour's part.
I finally stepped in when this thread was ignoring the facts, and I have laid them here so you can reconsider your thinking patterns with the facts before you.
I don't know Barbour or his victims and I don't need to know them to do a couple simple google searches to verify the facts which you and AC126748 taking his part should have done before you made such inaccurate claims.
It's rather humorous that you and AC126748 are so upset that I have paid attention to your assertions and with a little fact-checking found you both wrong, and are now claiming I have too much time on my hands (to do a couple googles and find the facts) and I'm "unable to let this go."
Hahaha!
DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
I finally stepped in when this thread was ignoring the facts, and I have laid them here so you can reconsider your thinking patterns with the facts before you.
I don't know Barbour or his victims and I don't need to know them to do a couple simple google searches to verify the facts which you and AC126748 taking his part should have done before you made such inaccurate claims.
It's rather humorous that you and AC126748 are so upset that I have paid attention to your assertions and with a little fact-checking found you both wrong, and are now claiming I have too much time on my hands (to do a couple googles and find the facts) and I'm "unable to let this go."
Hahaha!
DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
#109
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:26pm
Yes. Do your homework! Check your facts! nomdeplume is ALL about facts... except when they're about something like the master cleanse..
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#110
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:29pm
Another one who doesn't do his homework.
#111
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:39pm
philly, I see you got sucked (no pun) back into the discussion. You say the pregnancy is not our business, but Barbour made it open to discussion when he used it as an excuse to leave the show, and the excuse at this time seems arguable.
"The facts of the case are sketchy, to put it simply"
No, they are not. He had sex several times with a minor, got caught, and in lieu of a trial he obviously thought he would loose, he took a plea and was ordered to admit his guilt.
As Judge Judy says: "If you admit you are guilty, YOU ARE GUILTY, PERIOD!"
"The facts of the case are sketchy, to put it simply"
No, they are not. He had sex several times with a minor, got caught, and in lieu of a trial he obviously thought he would loose, he took a plea and was ordered to admit his guilt.
As Judge Judy says: "If you admit you are guilty, YOU ARE GUILTY, PERIOD!"
#112
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:42pm
"Barbour was not so hot in that." (Tale of Two Cities)
Here's some reviews about James in Tale since you acting like you weren't in the theatre when he was on:
"James Barbour delivers a bravura star-making turn, infusing his Carton with a sleepy, sardonic charm that clearly will win over audiences."
"But the show belongs to the sensational James Barbour, who sings and acts wonderfully. He acts with a kind of hangdog panache that is both ironic and very moving. "
"James Barbour’s performance is terrific! The strapping, long-haired Barbour portrays the disreputable secretly sensitive Carton with much emotional urgency and a heroic baritone that shivers the chandeliers. "
Not to mention he was nominated for Drama League Award, Drama Desk Award and Outer Critics Awards... Not too bad for a show that closed in November.
I just don't understand how someone can be so negative. It's all over, sure don't forget but is a fire-storm really necessary on an actor (a talented one at that) trying to make a living??
Here's some reviews about James in Tale since you acting like you weren't in the theatre when he was on:
"James Barbour delivers a bravura star-making turn, infusing his Carton with a sleepy, sardonic charm that clearly will win over audiences."
"But the show belongs to the sensational James Barbour, who sings and acts wonderfully. He acts with a kind of hangdog panache that is both ironic and very moving. "
"James Barbour’s performance is terrific! The strapping, long-haired Barbour portrays the disreputable secretly sensitive Carton with much emotional urgency and a heroic baritone that shivers the chandeliers. "
Not to mention he was nominated for Drama League Award, Drama Desk Award and Outer Critics Awards... Not too bad for a show that closed in November.
I just don't understand how someone can be so negative. It's all over, sure don't forget but is a fire-storm really necessary on an actor (a talented one at that) trying to make a living??
#113
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:45pm
I did but I know this is a no-one is going to win battle. Some people are more forgiving I suppose than others.
A portion of us think he has served his time and should be left alone, and others think he should wear a scarlet letter.
I meant the facts were sketchy because 1) he took a plea bargain, 2) the girl waited 5 years, in the nick of time to report it and 3 she is an aspiring actress. I understand the real facts (age and of course the nature of the crime itself).
A portion of us think he has served his time and should be left alone, and others think he should wear a scarlet letter.
I meant the facts were sketchy because 1) he took a plea bargain, 2) the girl waited 5 years, in the nick of time to report it and 3 she is an aspiring actress. I understand the real facts (age and of course the nature of the crime itself).
#114
Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:50pm
The length of time to report it doesn't mean anything. Victims will wait years before coming forward for fear of A) Not being believed B) Having their name dragged through the mud C) Fear of the court process. Sadly, these concerns are usually very valid.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#115
Posted: 8/19/11 at 10:33pm
Using qotes about Barbour's performance does not really help his case.. If anything they make it more pathetic. That someone with great talent (other's opinion, not mine) would use it to impress and seduce a child is beyond reproach.
"3. She is an aspiring actress."
As has been asked before and no one answered, what the hell does that have to do with questioning her reputation. Someone please explain how being the victim of a sex crime has helped her carreer?
"3. She is an aspiring actress."
As has been asked before and no one answered, what the hell does that have to do with questioning her reputation. Someone please explain how being the victim of a sex crime has helped her carreer?
#116
Posted: 8/19/11 at 10:37pm
nomedeplume, surely you can admit that it's just as fair to ask if you're related (genetically or financially) to the accuser's family as it is for you to accuse AC of being in the Barbour camp's pay.
Both are simply debating gambits. Pathetic ones at that.
Both are simply debating gambits. Pathetic ones at that.
#117
Posted: 8/19/11 at 10:43pm
It all makes perfect sense if you're not sane, Reg.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#118
Posted: 8/19/11 at 10:49pm
The facts are not at all "sketchy," philly03.
Barbour plead guilty, he admitted the crime, he admitted he lied and the judge convicted him. Nothing sketchy there, no room for a wiggle, no out.
What is he to you that you so try to defend the indefensible and can't accept the reality of his guilt, even when he admitted it?
Yes, that's correct, I found Barbour not so hot in A Tale of Two Cities but I found Lazar superb and the leading lady was fine. I would have much preferred say, Shuler Hensley, in Barbour's role. Big deal.
The big question I am left with after reading this thread today is wondering how many other victims Barbour may have had. Were there additional crimes for which he was not charged or tried and for which he escaped paying any consequence for his action(s)? That is what is truly "sketchy."
Barbour plead guilty, he admitted the crime, he admitted he lied and the judge convicted him. Nothing sketchy there, no room for a wiggle, no out.
What is he to you that you so try to defend the indefensible and can't accept the reality of his guilt, even when he admitted it?
Yes, that's correct, I found Barbour not so hot in A Tale of Two Cities but I found Lazar superb and the leading lady was fine. I would have much preferred say, Shuler Hensley, in Barbour's role. Big deal.
The big question I am left with after reading this thread today is wondering how many other victims Barbour may have had. Were there additional crimes for which he was not charged or tried and for which he escaped paying any consequence for his action(s)? That is what is truly "sketchy."
#119
Posted: 8/19/11 at 11:39pm
Are you saying that you yourself are not sane, AC126748? I hope you are saying it about yourself because otherwise you should do some homework for a change and first go look up defamation and libel.
And Reginald Tresilian, another poster who never does his homework on here, go read my response to the question. And watch who you claim "accused" anyone. I ask questions; I don't accuse. Use your brain if you can find it and read. You will find no accusations. Surprise! You were wrong again. Or I should say, no surprise.
And Reginald Tresilian, another poster who never does his homework on here, go read my response to the question. And watch who you claim "accused" anyone. I ask questions; I don't accuse. Use your brain if you can find it and read. You will find no accusations. Surprise! You were wrong again. Or I should say, no surprise.
#120
Posted: 8/20/11 at 1:45am
But you do all that while being bananas, nomdeplume.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#121
Posted: 8/20/11 at 11:59am
The minute someone with logic comes in, it's so easy to dismiss them. This is the Internet, who cares? I do. Stand strong, nomdeplume.
"There is no problem so big that it cannot be run away from."
~ Charles M. Schulz
#122
Posted: 8/20/11 at 12:03pm
Again with the semantics, nomdeplume. No, you didn't say 'AC, YOU ARE A MISOGYNIST AND ARE ON BARBOUR'S PAYROLL!'
But you did say this, and I'll quote it just in case you decide to pack up all your marbles and go home again, as you have been known to do:
"Why are you defending him, AC126748?
Are you paid to do it?
Are you a misogynist who hates women and doesn't care about female victims?
If Barbour admitted his own guilt, why don't you? Do you think the lives and safety of children is worthless and of no interest to you? That's pretty sick."
Yes, you're literally "asking questions". But not in an exploratory nature, and the answers are irrelevant, as seeking answers was not the point of such ridiculous questions of an accusatory nature. You were deliberating warping what AC said in order to discredit everything he said. It's an ad hominem. And now you're insinuating (see, I didn't say "accuse") that AC is committing libel by saying you're crazy (something that would be hard to prove, considering we're all under pseudonyms and proving that any real harm came to you from his statements would be nigh impossible).
But you did say this, and I'll quote it just in case you decide to pack up all your marbles and go home again, as you have been known to do:
"Why are you defending him, AC126748?
Are you paid to do it?
Are you a misogynist who hates women and doesn't care about female victims?
If Barbour admitted his own guilt, why don't you? Do you think the lives and safety of children is worthless and of no interest to you? That's pretty sick."
Yes, you're literally "asking questions". But not in an exploratory nature, and the answers are irrelevant, as seeking answers was not the point of such ridiculous questions of an accusatory nature. You were deliberating warping what AC said in order to discredit everything he said. It's an ad hominem. And now you're insinuating (see, I didn't say "accuse") that AC is committing libel by saying you're crazy (something that would be hard to prove, considering we're all under pseudonyms and proving that any real harm came to you from his statements would be nigh impossible).
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#123
Posted: 8/20/11 at 2:38pm
"The big question I am left with after reading this thread today is wondering how many other victims Barbour may have had. Were there additional crimes for which he was not charged or tried and for which he escaped paying any consequence for his action(s)? That is what is truly "sketchy.""
And there we have more asking of questions that are being asked without you wanting or needing an answer. It's guilt by innuendo under the pretense of asking "innocent" questions. You know it, I know it, and everyone in this thread knows it. So, let me ask some questions:
The way you accuse and carry on about this - well, did you have some contretemps with Mr. Barbour? Did he treat you poorly? Did you have some sort of meeting with him that didn't make you happy? It's a little sketchy.
The way you accuse and carry on about this - well, do you have emotional problems? Are you a little crazy? Just asking, of course.
Someone somewhere told me that you may have had some sketchy incidents in your past - you were never convicted of them and never served time for them, but now I'm just wondering if they're true? Just asking, of course.
See how it works? Innuendo, The Game - it's fun to play.
And there we have more asking of questions that are being asked without you wanting or needing an answer. It's guilt by innuendo under the pretense of asking "innocent" questions. You know it, I know it, and everyone in this thread knows it. So, let me ask some questions:
The way you accuse and carry on about this - well, did you have some contretemps with Mr. Barbour? Did he treat you poorly? Did you have some sort of meeting with him that didn't make you happy? It's a little sketchy.
The way you accuse and carry on about this - well, do you have emotional problems? Are you a little crazy? Just asking, of course.
Someone somewhere told me that you may have had some sketchy incidents in your past - you were never convicted of them and never served time for them, but now I'm just wondering if they're true? Just asking, of course.
See how it works? Innuendo, The Game - it's fun to play.
#124
Posted: 8/20/11 at 2:51pm
Game, Set, Match- very well put BK!
#125
Posted: 8/20/11 at 3:27pm
See how it works? Innuendo, The Game - it's fun to play
Totally. Now go after the people who have been using innuendo to smear the girl who accused Barbour! The Machiavellian grandmother, the claims that she did this to other performers, the claims it was all about money, the fact that she may not have been a virgin when she met Barbour... there's just so much to work with, I can't wait to see you set THAT straight, too!
Totally. Now go after the people who have been using innuendo to smear the girl who accused Barbour! The Machiavellian grandmother, the claims that she did this to other performers, the claims it was all about money, the fact that she may not have been a virgin when she met Barbour... there's just so much to work with, I can't wait to see you set THAT straight, too!
Updated On: 8/20/11 at 03:27 PM
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