The great irony: homophobic conservatives who love RENT- Page 2

[Pinguin]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 1:38am

Oy, now peeps are taking my POINT too seriously.

I just don't think you have to agree with a show to like it. The Grease thing just popped into my head :0)

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 2:03am

In my opinion, Rent is as much about homosexuality as each individual makes it.
To one person, this factor of Rent is one of its greatest and most important factors. To someone else, however, the fact that there is homosexuality in Rent is a non-issue...whether they approve or not, the message is one of Love and Life and that is what is important. One of the things that I like about Rent is that the characters don't really make a big deal about the homosexuallity...it just is, and they hardly even treat it as an issue because it is a part of their life (in MY opinion, atleast). Yes, there are plenty of moments, but none of the characters are ridiculed because of it and no one really even raises an eyebrow...in fact, I dare say that the homosexual relationships in Rent could just as well be hetero and it wouldn't change the message (like La Boheme). Collins is beat, but it doesn't allude to the cause being his homosexuality...he was just mugged. And yeah there is all the stuff in La Vie Boheme.

It's like what someone on Broadway, The American Musical said about the Lion King. To a white person, it has nothing to do with race...to a black person, it has everything to do with race.

That's my opinion, take it or leave it :
Atleast that's my best explanation as to how a conservative person could love Rent.

[Derech2]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 2:31am

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems almost shallow for a person to assume that because someone says I love show X, that they also embrace, agree with, and love every single aspect of that show.

I doubt you were talking about me, but I do not support homosexuality. I do say I like Rent, though. Mostly because of its music. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so.

And please don't group homophobic and conservative together. I don't know if you always do that, but if you're not aware, the two do not go hand in hand.

[ZONEACE]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 4:02am

they may not go hand in hand, but they stand pretty damn close together.

and whats all this "i dont support homosexuality" Homosexuality doesn't need your support, or your consent, or even your acknowledgement, SO PIPE DOWN.

[kas]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 8:21am

the message of wear-leather-pants-and-become-a-pink-lady-to-get-your-man has always worked for me. life altering. :) danny zuko, i still love you.

[RentLondon]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 9:14am

I am a Conservative/Republican. I worked on the Bush/Cheney 04 campaign and the 2005 Conservative UK election. I wouldn't say im homopobic by any means. I don't have any gay friends or infact know any gay people. This is just purely because I have been brought up in a Jewish area and went to a Jewish school and there are very few gay jews. This does not make me homophobic at all. Rent is my all time favorite show and i have seen it 17 times. I love everything it stands for and the emotion is just so real.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 9:17am

"there are very few gay jews."

Oy.

[meagan9848]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 9:18am

Rent is about so much more than homosexuality. It's about appreciating life, and what you have...and shows how important friendship and love are.

Am I homophobic?

nope.

[KelRel]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 9:35am

I hope that I am not one of the ones to whom you are referring jerby. I am a conservative and a Christian, but does that make me homophobic? No. I love RENT and I always will, that show, to me at least, is not about homosexuality. While it plays a huge role in the show that is not what I see as the main focus. The main focus is LOVE. Love in all forms- which is an amazing thing. So what if there are two women in love, or two men in love, or a man and a woman in love. The most important thing in the show and in life is love. So personally I see the show with a bit of a Christian vibe to it because to real Christians the most important thing that Jesus taught was to love.

[RentLondon]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 9:46am

Jonathan Larson was jewish and the show features typical jewish parents. Name me one religion that dosnt teach you to love. I dont see any prodominantly Christian themes

[KelRel]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 9:53am

I'm not trying to say that the teaching os "love" is just Christian, its just alot of Christians get a bad name for hating homosexuals etc..I was trying to make the connection that there is a bit of Christian-ness in the show as well so many other things. Sorry that wasn't clear.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:03am

RentLondon, you said:

"I don't have any gay friends or infact know any gay people."

scuse me while I yell BULLSH*T........I believe you have no gay friends , I won't even touch that part.......but, you DO know gay people.......you just don't know they are gay.

Updated On: 8/3/05 at 10:03 AM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:09am

and Derech2 you said

"I doubt you were talking about me, but I do not support homosexuality"

The Head Homosexual wanted me to make it quite clear to you that we do not support YOU!

We are doing quite well without the support of intolerant bigots like you.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:10am

I don't have any gay friends or infact know any gay people. This is just purely because I have been brought up in a Jewish area and went to a Jewish school and there are very few gay jews.

Yes, you do. It kills me when people say they don't know any gay people. I promise you that you DO know gay people. You talk to gay people every day. You have gay people in your Synagogue. You even have gay people in your FAMILY. You just don't know it. And that last comment is the stupidest thing anyone has ever written on this board. EVER! (Except, perhaps, for the girl who asked who Julie Harris and Vanessa Redgrave are.)

[Elphaba]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:15am

thank you Sueleen, you said, in a much nicer way what I tried to........

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:20am

Just having a little fun with the Grease thing.

As for Rent - I love the musical, and the message, and find those who can say they love the musical, then ignore the underlying theme of accepting homosexuality are missing a large point of the whole show. The relationship that is the model for the show is the Collins/Angel love story. Those are the two who are living their life and embracing love. They have the love all others want.

AIDS, which for so many years in the 1980's and early 1990's was thought as a Gay disease, or worse, God's punishment to those sinners who are Gay (someone actually said this to a friend of mine who was dying of Aids in the early 1990's). In Rent, AIDS is shared among all equally - and is clearly not a just a Gay disease.

Queer Eye is a fun show, but sexuality is at best alluded to and whitewashed. When mainstream America accepts Queer as Folk, and the sex scenes in that show, then maybe we are talking acceptance. For now, shows let you say you accept homosexuality, without having to actually deal with it. "Yeah, I am tolerant, I love Queer Eye, Jack is really funny on Will & Grace . . ." I can just imagine Rick Santorim's, and many other "tolerant" folks' head exploding five minutes into a Queer as Folk episode. . .

Gay or straight, it doesn'really matter . . just live your life and value every second of it. Love each other, in whatever form that is right for you. Don't judge. Create. "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation . . ." That is what Rent's basic message seems to be to me. By default, homosexuality, and the acceptance or at least tolerance of it, is core to the major theme of the story.

Well, that is the view from straight, moderate Democrate America. Though is do live in LA, so of course that makes me a deviant be default . . . except of course when they want my tax dollars, then they love me . . .

Now, as for Grease . . .

[Luke0827]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:33am

RentLondon:

A question with respect to your question about a religion that doesn't teach you to love. My understanding of the Orthofox Jewsih faith is that if one's child marries a person who is not Jewish, that child is considered to have died, and that the parents are expected to actually go through a mourning process in addition to never speaking to or seeing their child again.

Unless I am incorrect in my understanding of this custom, would you say that pretending your child is dead and shutting him out of your life because he married someone of a different religion is a lesson in how to love? I am inclined to think that such an attitude is intolerant and destructive to the family units which so many religious conservatives claim to be defending.

I think that the confusion over why a religious conservative would like a show like Rent probably has something to do with the kind of hypocrisy that's often on display by religious conservatives. When faith in God is twisted in such a way that it is used to condemn, exclude, belittle, and hurt people who are different -- the kind of people whose stories are told in Rent -- it is an affront to everything Christianity (and I would assume Judaism, though I cannot speak to that with authority) is supposed to be about.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:49am

Luke,

I think that extreme fundamentalist of any Religion would have a problem with Rent. I know that my reform temple has worked to assist a local gay temple during high holidays to use our synagog for prayer. I think the core issue is that radicalism, whether it be Christian, Jewish or Muslim - breeds intolerance. There are plenty of Jewish families with gay children who embrace and support them. There are Christians who are "conservative" who also accept homosexuality - I don't think you can lump everyone together, no matter how tempting it would be.

Me, I think organized religion is a tool of the Devil - one story, three endings, let us kill each other over who is right. (I use to whisper that to my dad in high holiday services just to annoy him . . ) Form over substance. The movie Dogma is brilliant on this point.

[katygrace84]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 10:54am

Somehow the word "tolerance" with regard to homosexuality has always really pissed me off. Tolerance is something you practice with the little kid kicking the back of your seat on an airplane. "Um, I really hate your lifestyle and I think you're going to hell because God hates you for being gay. But I guess I can tolerate it since I really have no choice." Gee thanks, Asshole. I'll be sure to keep that in mind when your kid turns out to be a bigot like you and beats the **** out of one of my gay friends. I realize that I'm taking the meaning of this word to the absolute extreme, but it just doesn't seem at all right to me. Even if you are a very conservative Christian and believe that homosexuality is against God's law, you cannot ignore the words of Jesus- "Love each other as I have loved you." And that means unconditional love. That means true obedience to God and His wishes, something I have found that most Christians are terified of (including myself at times). It means putting aside your own personal interpretations of the Bible, putting aside your own personal biases and hatreds. (KelRel, I am NOT AT ALL ripping on you. I think you make an excellent point and I love the fact that you seem to agree with me on this whole love thing.) Unfortunately this also means that I have to love all of those bigots. (See how this can be tricky?)

Acceptance, love, respect- those are the words that should be associated with the world's views on homosexuality. And, in my my Small Town-Midwestern-Raised Catholic-Practicing Liberal-Straight Girl opinion, they're the ONLY acceptable ones. Until we can all come together as one unified people and stand behind each other in love, as Jonathan Larson wrote about in RENT, our civilization will only be a shadow of the greatness it could become.

And I'm hopping down off my soapbox. Sorry if I have offended.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 11:03am

I agree completely with you.

That is why I used both words. Intentionally . . . Acceptance is what happens when you embrace someone, regardless. Tolerance is what happens when the courts tell you that you have no choice. I think the vast majority of staight America tolerates homosexuality, but does not truly accept it for what it is. . . a fact of life that some people were born to love those of the same sex. Hell, if two people want to marry and raise a family, more power to them. Plenty of straight familes are messed up, why not give those who want to be married a chance. That is acceptance.

Folks tolerate Jews, Christians, Blacks, Gays, Mexicans, Muslims . . . because they have to. They tolerate those who are different from their comfort zone because they have to. Give them a chance, and they will run right back to their own comfort zone. We are so divided by class, religion, race, gender, nationality . . . that all many can do now is tolerate the differences. It is really kind of sad.
Updated On: 8/3/05 at 11:03 AM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 11:03am

Katy I gave up on acceptance long ago........I am tolerant of religious fanatics......but I certainly will never accept, love, or respect them. I cannot have any of those three feelings for people who preach hatred.

as for that little kid kicking your seat? You turn politely around and tell his or her mother or father that if he doesn't keep his legs to himself you will happily open the cabin door to give him more room

On a flight from Vienna to NYC I had three russian soccar plays behind me kicking my seat, I turned around told them my brother would be the customs agent allowing them into my fine country and I suggested that not only they stop kicking, but also that they remain silent the rest of the flight. It worked.

[bella cantato]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 11:05am

You guys, I don't think this thread is fair. I am NOT conservative. However, on their behalf, I LOVE Chicago and think murder is a terrible crime and should not be celebrated...

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 11:10am

You maka me laugh . . .

[katygrace84]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 11:20am

YouWantIt- I could not agree with you more. Were we perhaps separated at birth?

Elphaba- Thank you for your opinions. I, too, couldn't ever love and accept and respect bigots and people filled with so much hatred. Hence the reason I can't really say I'm a good Christian. And, yes, I know this makes me a big hypocrite. I don't think there is anyone who can say they are not hypocritical on some issue. It's a tricky, slippery slope. All any of us can do is try our hardest to promote peace and unity until this kind of hate no longer exists. I think it would be the one circumstance in which it is actually good to have everyone be alike. I know this is cheesy. Sorry. It's just how I feel.
Thanks also for the airplane tips. People can be so disresectful and rude in cramped spaces!

[joniray]

Posted: 8/3/05 at 11:48am

Me thinks bella missed the point of "Chicago."