Theatre’s Offered - But Kindly Declined.

Is it possible to change the subject from "theatre's" to "theatres?" The apostrophe made it seem like you were saying "Theatre IS Offered - But Kindly Declined" as in maybe you'd gotten someone tickets as a gift and they declined them or that school theatre participation is dropping despite it frequently being available.

Super curious to know if there are other instances of shows having the power to reject theatres. The only instance I can think of would be Scott Rudin declining an offer to move To Kill a Mockingbird to put Music Man in the Shubert because he only wanted the Winter Garden.

Updated On: 1/9/24 at 01:09 PM

I don’t remember the rumors, if any, at the time, but I’d imagine Matilda had their pick of any prime location, at least initially. The RSC had a lot of high profile producers ready to jump on board for the Broadway transfer, and it was highly unusual that they ultimately ended up with only one other credited producer, the Dodgers. Compare that to the 22 producers and 1 associate producer listed for Kinky Boots (and that number is even higher if you count each individual name in some of the producing conglomerates/companies that got credit).

AEA AGMA SM said: "I don’t remember the rumors, if any, at the time, but I’d imagineMatildahad their pick of any prime location, at least initially. The RSC had a lot of high profile producers ready to jump on board for the Broadway transfer, and it was highly unusual that they ultimately ended up with only one other credited producer, the Dodgers. Compare that to the 22 producers and 1 associate producer listed forKinky Boots(and that number is even higher if you count each individual name in some of the producing conglomerates/companies that got credit)."

And this right here, combined with Warchus getting up on stage at an industry event saying that Americans couldn't make musicals as good as Brits, and you have yourself the story of how Matilda lost the Tony. And really lost it before it played a single performance on Broadway due to how they selected their producer. That said, there's no kinder man on Broadway than Michael David.

Just rattling off a few from memory:

The revival of Sweet Charity was rumored to transfer to the Lyric (then Hilton) with Britney Spears taking over from Applegate.

Young Frankenstein was supposed to take the St James after Producers closed instead of the Hilton (now Lyric).

Dear Evan Hansen was supposed to open in the Belasco and Next to Normal the Longacre, Hedwig was supposed to be at the Golden, and The Prom the Cort (now Jones).

The current Sweeney revival was at one point rumored to take the St James (before Woods had their first extension).

I may be incredibly incorrect, but back in 2007 I remember hearing some grand plan that would’ve kept Beauty and the Beast open when The Little Mermaid came in but it would’ve involved Mary Poppins not taking the New Amsterdam? Essentially, Lion King would’ve stayed in its original home, Tarzan would’ve opened at the Minskoff, Poppins would’ve taken the Palace, and the 3rd National Tour set of Beauty would’ve taken the Rodgers. Mackintosh insisting on the New Amsterdam for Poppins allegedly caused the shuffle to take place, but I’ll admit my mind is fuzzy on the finer details. It’s insane to think Disney would’ve had five musicals simultaneously on Broadway at one point.

^Not exactly. Tickets were already on sale for the production at the then Martin Beck Theatre, but the show was postponed twice then cancelled.

Matilda was rumored for the Winter Garden but needed a center aisle, and was going to cause a rumored chain reaction of Mamma Mia to the Ambassador and Chicago to the Booth (rumored, not confirmed).


As for Harry Potter, The Hirschfeld and revamped Minskoff were rumored (again, not saying this is fact).

Updated On: 1/10/24 at 03:32 PM

BroadwayNYC2 said: "^Not exactly. Tickets were already on sale for the production at the thenMartin Beck Theatre, but the show was postponed twice then cancelled.

Matilda was rumored for the Winter Garden but needed a center aisle, and was going to cause a rumored chain reaction of Mamma Mia to the Ambassador and Chicago to the Booth (rumored, not confirmed).


As for Harry Potter, TheHirschfeld and revamped Minskoff were rumored (again, not saying this is fact)."

I do not know for sure what you mean by a center aisle. To me, the Palace had a true center aisle and I assume that one was manufactured for The Minskoff for the Lion King. Neither the Winter Garden nor the Shubert really have a center aisle. Both are pretty standard: three sections, divided by two aisles, not one.

OhHiii said: "AEA AGMA SM said: "I don’t remember the rumors, if any, at the time, but I’d imagineMatildahad their pick of any prime location, at least initially. The RSC had a lot of high profile producers ready to jump on board for the Broadway transfer, and it was highly unusual that they ultimately ended up with only one other credited producer, the Dodgers. Compare that to the 22 producers and 1 associate producer listed forKinky Boots(and that number is even higher if you count each individual name in some of the producing conglomerates/companies that got credit)."

And this right here, combined with Warchus getting up on stage at an industry event saying that Americans couldn't make musicals as good as Brits, and you have yourself the story of how Matilda lost the Tony. And really lost it before it played a single performance on Broadway due to how they selected their producer. That said, there's no kinder man on Broadway than Michael David."

Did he really say that? Do you know the exact words? I’m just surprised because besides being blatantly untrue and the reality being the exact opposite (ie Americans, at least those that present work in New York obviously make better musicals than Brits, with Matilda being a rare exception) in my opinion…it just seems like a bad idea to say ‘READ THE ROOM.’

And here is the NY Times article from March 20, 1987 about the Shuberts finally getting Phantom booked into the Majestic:

The Shubert Organization this week captured one of the few prizes left in a boom-or-bust industry when a British producer, Cameron Mackintosh, agreed to bring ''The Phantom of the Opera,'' the biggest hit of the London season, to the Majestic Theater, a Shubert-owned house, in November.

To get the lucrative show, however, Shubert - Broadway's biggest theater owner and among its most influential producers - made significant concessions to Mr. Mackintosh, including paying for more than $500,000 worth of construction in the theater specifically for the show, according to sources close to the negotiations who asked not be be identified.

The $7 million Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, which is staged by Hal Prince and produced by Mr. Mackintosh, opened in October at Her Majesty's Theater in the West End. At the time, New York's three major theater owners - Jujamcyn Theaters and the Nederlander Organization, in addition to Shubert - began negotiating with Mr. Mackintosh for the Broadway booking, which is expected to generate about $40,000 a week in rent. The Independence of Success

Mr. Mackintosh's success as a producer of such hits as ''Cats'' and ''Les Miserables'' has won him independence from the Broadway theater owners, who often produce the shows in their houses. In December, he told the president of the Shubert Organization, Bernard Jacobs, that the Majestic was not suitable for ''Phantom,'' in the belief that the theater's steeply raked auditorium and a balcony that overhangs the 10th row of the orchestra would limit views of some of the musical's special effects, particularly those that require a view of the auditorium ceiling.

Among the other theaters considered were the Mark Hellinger, which is owned by Nederlander, and the Martin Beck, which is owned by Jujamcyn. The Majestic and the Hellinger each have about 400 more seats than the Beck, and thus would yield a considerably higher box office gross. But the Beck most closely resembles the show's London home, the 1,100-seat Her Majesty's.

Though the producer was on the verge of making a deal for the show to go into the Beck, Mr. Jacobs was determined to book it into the Majestic, widely regarded as one of the best houses on Broadway. An Expert Opinion

The Shubert Organization dispatched a consultant, Pete Feller, who is one of the most respected theater technicians in the industry, to see ''Phantom'' in London and to determine whether it could go into the Majestic without a change of design.

Mr. Feller, reached yesterday in New Haven, where he was working on a touring production of ''Cats,'' said he had been sent to assess whether any Broadway theater could reproduce the show being seen in London. ''No Broadway theaters are as deep as British theaters,'' Mr. Feller said. He suggested some alterations to the Majestic that would make the potentially more profitable theater feasible without substantial set design changes.

''What has made the Majestic a possibility,'' Mr. Mackintosh said, ''is the Shuberts taking on the structural changes.'









Though the total cost of those changes is unclear, estimates range between $500,000 and $1 million. Many of those in the industry who have seen the show in London maintain that there still will be seats with obstructed views - a problem Shubert has had with both ''Cats'' and ''Evita.''

''In every show there are some seats that are borderline,'' Mr. Jacobs said Wednesday. ''If there are any seats we deem to be obstructed, we will label them as such and price them accordingly.'' Mr. Jacobs said he felt there would be no obstructed-view seats for the show.

With the booking of ''Phantom'' at the Majestic, the Shubert Organization adds one more musical with a potential for running several years or longer to a list that includes, ''Cats,'' ''Les Miserables,'' ''A Chorus Line,'' ''Drood'' and ''42d Street,'' the Majestic's current tenant. ''Any time you put a theater away,'' Mr. Jacobs said, ''it's good for the business.''

Just wanted to say thanks to Phantom4Ever - it's posts like those that make me love this message board :)

OhHiJohnny said: "The current Sweeney revival was at one point rumored to take the St James (before Woods had their first extension)."


I thought the Piano Lesson was announced for the St. James after ITW, but they got bumped to the Barrymore

How much was the Hellinger really in the mix for Phantom? If it did go in there, we'd have an additional active theatre (assuming the Nederlanders didn't sell Times Square Church one of their other theatres).

Det95 said: "OhHiJohnny said: "The current Sweeney revival was at one point rumored to take the St James (before Woods had their first extension)."


I thought the Piano Lesson was announced for the St. James after ITW, but they got bumped to the Barrymore"

Actually, "The Piano Lesson" was announced to open at the St. James in fall of 2022 and the marquis was already up on the theater when the "Into the Woods" transfer happened. "ITW" bumped "TPL" to the Barrymore. "TPL" only ran for 3 weeks after "ITW" closed. "Sweeney" could have gone into the St. James based on timing, but I guess Jujamcyn wanted their production of "New York, New York" for the St. James instead. Someone with actual knowledge of that situation can elaborate further.