Universal's WICKED Films - News & Discussion Thread — Page 30

TotallyEffed said: "The timeline of Wicked spans, like…years. I don’t get why people get hung up on the ages. They are not supposed to be eighteen for the whole show."

I think this is so poorly conveyed in the show. Glinda says, “it was a long time ago and we were both very young.” Then the events of Act I play out over what feels like a few weeks, meaning that intermission must cover a span of many years (how many? 5? 10?). However, I think it really feels like the events of the whole show play out in pretty successive order and the idea of a long time passing is fully missed.

Seb28 said: "pmensky said: "if you think that in this “fictional world” that Cynthia Errivo isn’t going to play Elphaba as a black woman or that race isn’t going to matter, I think you’re very ignorant and foolish."

It is a fictional story in a fictional world about a green witch. It is actually essential for the story that this green color comes as a complete shock, as something that even her own family has never seen before. So it is quite essential that she does not play this as a black woman, with very different dynamics in pride, family shame, being the only one, etc.

What is really ignorant and foolish is the fact that some people use the argument "race does not matter" whenever a black person is cast (in a fictional story) and at the same time use the argument "race really does matter to avoid confusion" in another fictional story to defend the fact of the unnecessary casting of more actors of a certain race. It can not just matter when it suits your agenda. And on top of that it is racist, because based on the first variation of your principles, it does not matter, so casting on race should not be allowed, but just casting the most talented person for the role. Your thought process is what happened in the past but then the exact other way around. That is not the way forward as that mindset is the root of racism. Anyone who does not agree with this should learn to understand the problems and effects that will come from this behavior.

"

Why is it every time there is a discussion about the race of a character in any movie you’re there making thinly veiled racist comments. If you’re not accusing Halle Bailey of being “sassy” and “riffing for five minutes underwater” it’s that Elphaba may be “played as a black woman” just because the actress is black. It’s truly bizarre.

Why is there even a discussion about race being had on here? Both the Wicked and Mermaid films will have a ton of diversity in them. Halle and Cynthia were the best people for the roles in their Director's eyes. Period. Not much else to say on that topic.

CarlosAlberto said: "You would never accuse Idina Menzel of playing "Elphaba" as a white woman. But here you are assuming Erivo is going to play "Elphaba" as black woman..

WTF does that even mean? She's playing a fictional friggin' witch."

CarlosAlberto, you just chose my side. You are repeating my exact standpoints.

There was a racist poster in this discussion, but it seems that his posts are removed which might have caused the confusion. What you mention above was my question too. Why on earth would anyone assume that Erivo will play Elphaba as a black or white woman? I literally asked that person that. And then I explained that she is a green friggin' witch with her own story line. I never got an answer though, so don't hope for too much. The poster might not even be here anymore.

Thanks for your support.

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 12:33 PM

Perhaps they cast black actors as her parents and the Wizard, and since Elphaba is black, it might be confusing to the audience if everyone in the family is black and Nessa is not?

No, Cinderella in the 90s and the current musical The Notebook had different races of parents and children and even different races of the same characters so I doubt that's an issue since it worked well in both.

Plannietink08 said: "You may be for inclusion in theory but you’ve proven time and time again that you’re very against it in practise."

I really prefer to stay on topic, so this will be my last reaction on this matter.

But you should ask yourself what you mean by "inclusion". Because I was the biggest Bailey supporter for months. Not because she is black, but because I feel that she is the right type for the role (which is a very specific type, and which nobody seems to talk about, which is weird too) and because she has an incredibly beautiful voice, which is essential for the role. I could not think of anyone better to be cast in the role in terms of type and voice. I just don't like some of her choices, and I feel I have that right, just as I did with any other actress in any other role. That is what a discussion board is for. And in my opinion I am the one who treats her as any other actress, and I am the one that includes her to the equal world. And you are not.

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 01:19 PM

Seb28 said: "Plannietink08 said: "You may be for inclusion in theory but you’ve proven time and time again that you’re very against it in practise."

I really prefer to stay on topic, so this will be my last reaction on this matter.

But you should ask yourself what you mean by "inclusion". Because I was the biggest Bailey supporter for months. Not because she is black, but because I feel that she is the right type for the role (which is a very specific type, and which nobody seems to talk about, which is weird too) and because she has an incredibly beautiful voice, which is essential for the role. I could not think of anyone better to be cast in the role in terms of type and voice. I just don't like some of her choices, and I feel I have that right, just as I did with any other actress in any other role. That is what a discussion board is for. And in my opinion I am the one who treats her as any other actress, and I am the one that includes her to the equal world. And you are not.

"

Do you forget that we can read? We read your “discussion” of Halle’s performance and your “opinion” was FILLED with micro aggressions, certain words you would never use to describe a white woman’s performance, like calling Halle’s performance “sassy” despite absolutely nothing suggesting the performance was sassy, other than the song is sung by a black woman so you can’t help but see it as sassy.


I don’t think you’re racist, I just think you’re woefully misinformed and ignorant.

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 04:36 PM

Isn't this the same person who, in another thread, said that Cynthia Erivo arrives in Pinocchio talking like a "hairdresser" (what does that even mean?) even though she's using her natural, fairly standard English accent? Talk about thinly veiled racism...

Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time.

pmensky said: "Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time."

But doesn't all of Act I take place in their first year at Shiz, when they are presumably 18/19? (I could be wrong about that). Meaning Act II starts at least 4 years later when they are no longer at Shiz. But I think the implication is that even more time than that has passed, because Glinda is now in a position of status and Fiyero is now captain of the guard. And Elphaba is well established as the "Wicked Witch of the West" and Nessa is the governor of munckinland or whatever. I guess it's up for interpretation, but I think there's a strong argument that the jump in time is closer to 10 years.

Seb28 said: "I am not racist. I am half POC. I am for inclusion.

But I am allergic to double standards and racism. And that is why I speak up sometimes."

Just because you identify as half-POC doesn’t make you not racist. There is lots of racism deeply rooted in different racial groups, which ultimately was planted there by white supremacy. Anyway, I don’t necessarily think you’re racist, but you have used microaggressions in many of your detailed opinions. You might not be aware that you say them or maybe there’s an unconscious bias. Just be better.

And honestly, no, you can’t take a person’s color out of the equation, it’s part of their identity. Which makes playing Elphaba as a person of color (since she literally is) make logical sense. We can celebrate the artistic choices, the achievements of a person of color because opportunities are still not equal for POCs, and we can celebrate both at the same time. Let Cynthia play the role as a Black woman, whatever that means, because Black women will finally be able to see themselves in this narrative and character. Now that’s something to celebrate.

pmensky said: "Rentaholic2 said: "pmensky said: "Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time."

But doesn't all of Act I take place in their first year at Shiz, when they are presumably 18/19? (I could be wrong about that). Meaning Act II starts at least 4 years later when they are no longer at Shiz. But I think the implication is that even more time than that has passed, because Glinda is now in a position of status and Fiyero is now captain of the guard. And Elphaba is well established as the "Wicked Witch of the West" and Nessa is the governor of munckinland or whatever. I guess it's up for interpretation, but I think there's a strong argument that the jump in time is closer to 10 years."

I hate to break it to you, but if you think there’s a strong argument that they jump 10 years, you didn’t just make it."

Thanks for breaking it to me that I'm wrong lol. I'm sure I am, but I'm happy to hear why you think that. Very possible I'm not remembering the show well enough, but if it takes 4 years to finish at Shiz, it's reasonable to assume it would take at least 5 years post-college to rise to the ranks that everyone is at when Act II begins. Does Act I end later in their tenure at Shiz than I remember?