Universal's WICKED Films - News & Discussion Thread- Page 30

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 8:24am

Seb28 said: "jacobsnchz14 said: "The WICKED movie is still seeking an actress for the role of "Nessarose" and the casting directors are seeking women of color who are wheelchair users (ambulatory and non-ambulatory)."

Can somebody explain to me why color is important for this role?

Last month the casting call was "wheelchair users of any ethnicity". Why are certain ethnicities suddenly excluded? Has the story changed? Why stop searching for the best candidate in any color?"

Maybe they didn’t see a lot of POC actors during the first round of auditions and are holding another round just for POC to make sure they have all bases covered.

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 10:09am

TotallyEffed said: "The timeline of Wicked spans, like…years. I don’t get why people get hung up on the ages. They are not supposed to be eighteen for the whole show."

I think this is so poorly conveyed in the show. Glinda says, “it was a long time ago and we were both very young.” Then the events of Act I play out over what feels like a few weeks, meaning that intermission must cover a span of many years (how many? 5? 10?). However, I think it really feels like the events of the whole show play out in pretty successive order and the idea of a long time passing is fully missed.

 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 10:26am

TheQuibbler said: "TotallyEffed said: "The timeline of Wicked spans, like…years. I don’t get why people get hung up on the ages. They are not supposed to be eighteen for the whole show."

I think this is so poorly conveyed in the show. Glinda says, “it was a long time ago and we were both very young.” Then the events of Act I play out over what feels like a few weeks, meaning that intermission must cover a span of many years (how many? 5? 10?). However, I think it really feels like the events of the whole show play out in pretty successive order and the idea of a long time passing is fully missed."


The stage musical pretty blatantly tries to be a companion to the MGM film. Margaret Hamilton was in her late 30s when she was in the film and looked much older. Billie Burke was in her mid 50s. I’ve always assumed Elphaba and Glinda are meant to be at least in their 30s by the end of Wicked. The musical is full of plot holes and when you really try to break it down like this it makes no sense. It’s just supposed to be fun. But I think it’s bizarre for anyone to complain about the ages of the actors in this.

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 10:41am

Seb28 said: "pmensky said: "if you think that in this “fictional world” that Cynthia Errivo isn’t going to play Elphaba as a black woman or that race isn’t going to matter, I think you’re very ignorant and foolish."

It is a fictional story in a fictional world about a green witch. It is actually essential for the story that this green color comes as a complete shock, as something that even her own family has never seen before. So it is quite essential that she does not play this as a black woman, with very different dynamics in pride, family shame, being the only one, etc.

What is really ignorant and foolish is the fact that some people use the argument "race does not matter" whenever a black person is cast (in a fictional story) and at the same time use the argument "race really does matter to avoid confusion" in another fictional story to defend the fact of the unnecessary casting of more actors of a certain race. It can not just matter when it suits your agenda. And on top of that it is racist, because based on the first variation of your principles, it does not matter, so casting on race should not be allowed, but just casting the most talented person for the role. Your thought process is what happened in the past but then the exact other way around. That is not the way forward as that mindset is the root of racism. Anyone who does not agree with this should learn to understand the problems and effects that will come from this behavior.

"

Why is it every time there is a discussion about the race of a character in any movie you’re there making thinly veiled racist comments. If you’re not accusing Halle Bailey of being “sassy” and “riffing for five minutes underwater” it’s that Elphaba may be “played as a black woman” just because the actress is black. It’s truly bizarre. 

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 11:05am

Plannietink08 said: "Why is it every time there is a discussion about the race of a character in any movie you’re there making thinly veiled racist comments.."

I am not racist. I am half POC. I am for inclusion. 

But I am allergic to double standards and racism. And that is why I speak up sometimes.

 

[Chase Miller]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 11:53am

Why is there even a discussion about race being had on here? Both the Wicked and Mermaid films will have a ton of diversity in them. Halle and Cynthia were the best people for the roles in their Director's eyes. Period. Not much else to say on that topic. 

 

 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 12:23pm

Seb28 said: "Plannietink08 said: "Why is it every time there is a discussion about the race of a character in any movie you’re there making thinly veiled racist comments.."

I am not racist. I am half POC. I am for inclusion.

But I am allergic to double standards and racism. And that is why I speak up sometimes.

No. You're a racist POS. You have a problem with Halle Bailey and you have a problem with Cynthia Erivo because they're both black. 

You would never accuse Idina Menzel of playing "Elphaba" as a white woman. But here you are assuming Erivo is going to play "Elphaba" as  black woman..

WTF does that even mean? She's playing a fictional friggin' witch. 

You're not fooling ANYBODY on this board. 

You are a racist POS. 

 

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 12:33pm

CarlosAlberto said: "You would never accuse Idina Menzel of playing "Elphaba" as a white woman. But here you are assuming Erivo is going to play "Elphaba" as black woman..

WTF does that even mean? She's playing a fictional friggin' witch."

CarlosAlberto, you just chose my side. You are repeating my exact standpoints. 

There was a racist poster in this discussion, but it seems that his posts are removed which might have caused the confusion. What you mention above was my question too. Why on earth would anyone assume that Erivo will play Elphaba as a black or white woman? I literally asked that person that. And then I explained that she is a green friggin' witch with her own story line. I never got an answer though, so don't hope for too much. The poster might not even be here anymore.

Thanks for your support.

 

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 12:33 PM

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 12:39pm

Chase Miller said: "Why is there even a discussion about race being had on here? Both the Wicked and Mermaid films will have a ton of diversity in them. Halle and Cynthia were the best people for the roles in their Director's eyes. Period. Not much else to say on that topic."

I have no idea either. It seems forbidden to discuss artistic choices of leading ladies when they are black.

There seem to be some people on the board that refuse to see them as artists and only see color. It's really weird. Literally every other leading lady in the history of live action classics has been discussed extensively on her choices, details, singing, etc.

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 12:41pm

Perhaps they cast black actors as her parents and the Wizard, and since Elphaba is black, it might be confusing to the audience if everyone in the family is black and Nessa is not?

No, Cinderella in the 90s and the current musical The Notebook had different races of parents and children and even different races of the same characters so I doubt that's an issue since it worked well in both. 

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 12:49pm

Seb28 said: "Plannietink08 said: "Why is it every time there is a discussion about the race of a character in any movie you’re there making thinly veiled racist comments.."

I am not racist. I am half POC. I am for inclusion.

"

Yes, we know. You tell us all every single time someone call out your aggressive behaviour. 
 

You may be for inclusion in theory but you’ve proven time and time again that you’re very against it in practise. 
 

 

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 1:19pm

Plannietink08 said: "You may be for inclusion in theory but you’ve proven time and time again that you’re very against it in practise."

I really prefer to stay on topic, so this will be my last reaction on this matter.

But you should ask yourself what you mean by "inclusion". Because I was the biggest Bailey supporter for months. Not because she is black, but because I feel that she is the right type for the role (which is a very specific type, and which nobody seems to talk about, which is weird too) and because she has an incredibly beautiful voice, which is essential for the role. I could not think of anyone better to be cast in the role in terms of type and voice. I just don't like some of her choices, and I feel I have that right, just as I did with any other actress in any other role. That is what a discussion board is for. And in my opinion I am the one who treats her as any other actress, and I am the one that includes her to the equal world. And you are not.

 

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 01:19 PM

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 2:31pm

Am I missing something here? Seb28 was responding to someone else making tat weird comment about Cynthia Erivo's casting and explaining why that person was wrong, yet everyone is dogpiling Seb28 as if they're the one who was saying Elphaba would be "played as a black woman." Seb28 was saying Cynthia's race WOULDN'T factor into her performance, as the story doesn't call for it, and it's silly to assume that would change just because the race of the actress in the film happens to be black. 

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 4:36pm

Seb28 said: "Plannietink08 said: "You may be for inclusion in theory but you’ve proven time and time again that you’re very against it in practise."

I really prefer to stay on topic, so this will be my last reaction on this matter.

But you should ask yourself what you mean by "inclusion". Because I was the biggest Bailey supporter for months. Not because she is black, but because I feel that she is the right type for the role (which is a very specific type, and which nobody seems to talk about, which is weird too) and because she has an incredibly beautiful voice, which is essential for the role. I could not think of anyone better to be cast in the role in terms of type and voice. I just don't like some of her choices, and I feel I have that right, just as I did with any other actress in any other role. That is what a discussion board is for. And in my opinion I am the one who treats her as any other actress, and I am the one that includes her to the equal world. And you are not.

"

Do you forget that we can read? We read your “discussion” of Halle’s performance and your “opinion” was FILLED with micro aggressions, certain words you would never use to describe a white woman’s performance, like calling Halle’s performance “sassy” despite absolutely nothing suggesting the performance was sassy, other than the song is sung by a black woman so you can’t help but see it as sassy. 
 

I don’t think you’re racist, I just think you’re woefully misinformed and ignorant. 

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 04:36 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 4:50pm

Seb28 said: "CarlosAlberto said: "You would never accuse Idina Menzel of playing "Elphaba" as a white woman. But here you are assuming Erivo is going to play "Elphaba" as black woman..

WTF does that even mean? She's playing a fictional friggin' witch."

CarlosAlberto, you just chose my side. You are repeating my exact standpoints.

There was a racist poster in this discussion, but it seems that his posts are removed which might have caused the confusion. What you mention above was my question too. Why on earth would anyone assume that Erivo will play Elphaba as a black or white woman? I literally asked that person that. And then I explained that she is a green friggin' witch with her own story line. I never got an answer though, so don't hope for too much. The poster might not even be here anymore.

Thanks for your support.

This thread makes my face ache. I am staying the hell away from it.  

Updated On: 9/22/22 at 04:50 PM

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 9:40pm

Isn't this the same person who, in another thread, said that Cynthia Erivo arrives in Pinocchio talking like a "hairdresser" (what does that even mean?) even though she's using her natural, fairly standard English accent? Talk about thinly veiled racism...

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 11:10pm

TheQuibbler said: "TotallyEffed said: "The timeline of Wicked spans, like…years. I don’t get why people get hung up on the ages. They are not supposed to be eighteen for the whole show."

I think this is so poorly conveyed in the show. Glinda says, “it was a long time ago and we were both very young.” Then the events of Act I play out over what feels like a few weeks, meaning that intermission must cover a span of many years (how many? 5? 10?). However, I think it really feels like the events of the whole show play out in pretty successive order and the idea of a long time passing is fully missed.

"

Since they’re breaking this up into two parts, I almost wish they had gone with two different casts, which would more clearly illustrate the substantial jump in time that occurs over intermission. Then you could have actors who actually pass as teenagers in the first movie, and actors who are clearly in their 30s in the second movie. I would have loved to see Dove Cameron and Amanda Seyfried play young/old Glinda and someone else play young elphaba with Cynthia taking over in part 2.

[pmensky]

Posted: 9/22/22 at 11:24pm

Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time.

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 6:07am

TheQuibbler said: "Isn't this the same person who, in another thread, said that Cynthia Erivo arrives inPinocchiotalking like a "hairdresser" (what does that even mean?) even though she's using her natural, fairly standard English accent? Talk about thinly veiled racism..."

It means random, everyday, superficial, gossipy talk with one hand in her side and rolling eyes, just like you often see in a hair salon, where conversations never go to a deeper level. That is how she acts. With no deeper layer or connection to emotion or the actual story whatsoever. Definitely not like a fairy with a deeper message. Pity. 

Ps. Can you please leave race out of it? I will not go into that. She's human and a performer.

 

Updated On: 9/23/22 at 06:07 AM

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 9:03am

pmensky said: "Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time."

But doesn't all of Act I take place in their first year at Shiz, when they are presumably 18/19? (I could be wrong about that). Meaning Act II starts at least 4 years later when they are no longer at Shiz.  But I think the implication is that even more time than that has passed, because Glinda is now in a position of status and Fiyero is now captain of the guard.  And Elphaba is well established as the "Wicked Witch of the West" and Nessa is the governor of munckinland or whatever.  I guess it's up for interpretation, but I think there's a strong argument that the jump in time is closer to 10 years.

[pmensky]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 9:11am

Rentaholic2 said: "pmensky said: "Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time."

But doesn't all of Act I take place in their first year at Shiz, when they are presumably 18/19? (I could be wrong about that). Meaning Act II starts at least 4 years later when they are no longer at Shiz. But I think the implication is that even more time than that has passed, because Glinda is now in a position of status and Fiyero is now captain of the guard. And Elphaba is well established as the "Wicked Witch of the West" and Nessa is the governor of munckinland or whatever. I guess it's up for interpretation, but I think there's a strong argument that the jump in time is closer to 10 years."

I hate to break it to you, but if you think there’s a strong argument that they jump 10 years, you didn’t just make it.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 10:14am

Seb28 said: "I am not racist. I am half POC. I am for inclusion.

But I am allergic to double standards and racism. And that is why I speak up sometimes."

Just because you identify as half-POC doesn’t make you not racist. There is lots of racism deeply rooted in different racial groups, which ultimately was planted there by white supremacy. Anyway, I don’t necessarily think you’re racist, but you have used microaggressions in many of your detailed opinions. You might not be aware that you say them or maybe there’s an unconscious bias. Just be better.

And honestly, no, you can’t take a person’s color out of the equation, it’s part of their identity. Which makes playing Elphaba as a person of color (since she literally is) make logical sense. We can celebrate the artistic choices, the achievements of a person of color because opportunities are still not equal for POCs, and we can celebrate both at the same time. Let Cynthia play the role as a Black woman, whatever that means, because Black women will finally be able to see themselves in this narrative and character. Now that’s something to celebrate. 

[ElephantLoveMedley]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 10:19am

Me after opening this thread for the first time in two days:

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 10:54am

pmensky said: "Rentaholic2 said: "pmensky said: "Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time."

But doesn't all of Act I take place in their first year at Shiz, when they are presumably 18/19? (I could be wrong about that). Meaning Act II starts at least 4 years later when they are no longer at Shiz. But I think the implication is that even more time than that has passed, because Glinda is now in a position of status and Fiyero is now captain of the guard. And Elphaba is well established as the "Wicked Witch of the West" and Nessa is the governor of munckinland or whatever. I guess it's up for interpretation, but I think there's a strong argument that the jump in time is closer to 10 years."

I hate to break it to you, but if you think there’s a strong argument that they jump 10 years, you didn’t just make it."

Thanks for breaking it to me that I'm wrong lol.  I'm sure I am, but I'm happy to hear why you think that.  Very possible I'm not remembering the show well enough, but if it takes 4 years to finish at Shiz, it's reasonable to assume it would take at least 5 years post-college to rise to the ranks that everyone is at when Act II begins.  Does Act I end later in their tenure at Shiz than I remember?

[pmensky]

Posted: 9/23/22 at 11:02am

Rentaholic2 said: "pmensky said: "Rentaholic2 said: "pmensky said: "Every time I check into this thread the distance in time between act 1 and 2 seems to grow exponentially in people’s opinions. Doesn’t act 2 start with the reveal that Glinda and Fiyero have gotten engaged? How long do you all think a girl like Glinda would wait to get engaged to her college boyfriend? Ten years? No. More like right out of school. When Glinda says it was a very long time ago, she’s trying to put distance between Elphaba and herself to try to diminish their relationship and to mollify the crowd, not to comment about the passage of time."

But doesn't all of Act I take place in their first year at Shiz, when they are presumably 18/19? (I could be wrong about that). Meaning Act II starts at least 4 years later when they are no longer at Shiz. But I think the implication is that even more time than that has passed, because Glinda is now in a position of status and Fiyero is now captain of the guard. And Elphaba is well established as the "Wicked Witch of the West" and Nessa is the governor of munckinland or whatever. I guess it's up for interpretation, but I think there's a strong argument that the jump in time is closer to 10 years."

I hate to break it to you, but if you think there’s a strong argument that they jump 10 years, you didn’t just make it."

Thanks for breaking it to me that I'm wrong lol. I'm sure I am, but I'm happy to hear why you think that. Very possible I'm not remembering the show well enough, but if it takes 4 years to finish at Shiz, it's reasonable to assume it would take at least 5 years post-college to rise to the ranks that everyone is at when Act II begins. Does Act I end later in their tenure at Shiz than I remember?"

No, and there’s nothing odd about Glinda getting a good job right out of school. Her family is rich and well connected, and it would make sense that the powers that be would want to keep her on their side and within view so she wouldn’t be led astray by her old friend. Throw in a job for her dumb fiancée to keep everyone happy. Morrible tells Glinda to “smile and wave and shut up” at one point.