What is it with all the MtF trannys in musicals?

[rentendre]

Posted: 3/17/05 at 10:54pm

OK, man, I don't get this: How come every single musical ever has a Male to female transexual/ crossdresser/whatever in it? (Not that I'm complaining)and what other ones are there besides the ones I've listed
Rent: Angel
Hairspray: Edna
Bombay Dreams: Sweetie (or something like that)
La Cage aux Folles: Well...
Chicago: No spoilers, but a signifigant (the main flaw of the movie was this ommision)
Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Cabaret: aren't some of them?
A Chorus Line: It's not one of the tracks, it's a spoken monolouge, and this kid in some teen production made me cry-I think he maybe play the husband of the chick who can't sing-anyway he entered showbiz as a crossdresser.
And so on and so forth...while the closest I can think of for female to male is Peter Pan is always played by a girl and Eponine passes for a boy to deliver the letter to Marius... any thoughts on this or additional sources for gender bending?

-Jason Tobias

[wildcat]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 1:29am

Roger DeBris wears a rather gorgeous frock in THE PRODUCERS.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 1:35am

Well, Jason I don't believe you listed "every single musical ever"

Can you tell me where the MTF "Trannys" in the following shows are?

42nd St
110 In the Shade
Aida
Bells Are Ringing
Big River
Camelot
Dreamgirls
Crazy For You
Evita
Follies
Grand Hotel
Hello, Dolly
Into the Woods
Les Miserables
The Music Man
Oklahoma
Seussical
Wonderful Town

Just to name a few.

[dapapabear2]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 1:55am

Kevin Aviance as Aida would work for me.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 2:09am

this thread is disgusting. and ripe with ignorance.

[Popular]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 2:13am

You forgot Ruthless the musical

[Justice]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 2:30am

Wow, Sporkie, it sounds to me like you have something against these characters or shows.
Let's see:
Angel from Rent is a DRAG QUEEN. They exist in NYC, believe it or not, and many of them MAKE A LIVING as drag Queens. I know. I have worked with many, and they are some of the best people to work for.
Hairspray: Did you see the movie? Edna was played by Divine, who is actually a male. By putting this musical on B'way, they stuck with the traditional. Edna is not a crossdresser/transvestite, etc. SHE is a character who happens to be played by a male. It's different.
I can't say I know Bombay Dreams, but I love "Love's Never Easy".
Chicago: Back in the 70's, it wasn't common. And it is there as an audience shocker as well as signifigant to Billy's "Nothing appears as it seems"

I'm tired and don't feel like justifying, as other posters made the point - NOT EVERY MUSICAL has these. You just pointed the ones out that do.

Oh, and you forgot Hair - My Conviction. Even though that role is a female, it is usually played by a male.
As well, you forgot Twelfth Night,
Some Like it Hot, which was also written as Sugar,
Little Shop of Horrors,
Rocky Horror Picture Show,
The Producers,
Bent (which is not a musical, but has a DQ in it),
and A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, just to name a few.

Updated On: 3/18/05 at 02:30 AM

[Mimi Imfurst]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 3:59am

The trangression of Gender in theatre period is perhaps the oldest element that has managed to survive through all incarnations of theatre. "cross-dressing" dates back to the birth of "theatrical" experiences- there are records of prehistoric shamens transgressing gender and sometimes species and were in many ways the first celebrities. For some reason, its a gimmick that is successful, enjoyable, and intriguing to not just our society, but others. I can't quite explain what exactly it is, but its something I've spent a good deal of time reading about, examining, and investigating.

I've been doing drag since I was 15. I used to go to high school in drag(you should see my student IDs). I got a detention once because I refused to take off my wig. It was too big and students behind me coudnt see over it. I used to be critized for doing drag and wanting to play women- honestly- on the stage. People didn't get it, and I learned to supress it and didnt think that "drag" theatre was worthy of exploration and presentation.

I have since then, learned to embrace my personal obsession, and decided to start a theatre company "Transmission Theatre Project" who's primary goal is produce works which compassionately examine and illuminate the enduring aspects of the human experience through the exploration of Gender in theatre in relation to content, character and form. I've been shaped by the work of John Cameron Mitchell, Harvey Fierstein, Moises Kaufmann and Tectonic, Tony Kushner, Justin Bond, and many drag queens like Lypsinka, Porsche, Sweetie, Joey Arias and more. I want to explore traditional classical works and classical casting(all men), roles written for drag characters, roles with transgender characters and looking at untraditionally cast works.

As far as Broadway Trannies- I its a gimmick that will continue to flourish...last season/this season there was an abundance
Rent-
La Cage-
Taboo-
Bombay Dreams-
I am my own wife-
Chicago-
Producers-
Hairspray-
Dame Edna-
I'm sure im forgetting something.

My point is, us ladies arent going anywhere- Check out "The Changing Room" by laurence senelick. its a great encyclopedia of drag in theatre history. "Vested Interests" by Majorie Garber is great too. Also "Dressing Up" by Peter Ackroyd.

I am currently directing a peice from "Vanities" with all men.

Updated On: 3/18/05 at 03:59 AM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 4:03am

"I got a detention once because I refused to take off my wig. It was too big and students behind me coudnt see over it."

Not only will I never understand the reasoning behind drag, but are you sure this really happened to you? It sounds like a deleted scene from CAMP or NAPOLEON DYNAMITE...or even better...STRANGERS WITH CANDY...

Updated On: 3/18/05 at 04:03 AM

[Mimi Imfurst]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 4:10am

hahaha it totally did.
READ about it here:
http://20below.mainetoday.com/press/verge/lead3b.shtml

That was on the front page of the newspaper. Theres a picture of the wig half way down. The part of the story that it is part of it appears right next to it.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 4:13am

That's crazy......

I just don't understand WHY you would go to school in drag. I dont mean to sound condescending or judgemental, but it scares me. (Not YOU personally doing it...)

[bjivie2]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 5:32am

This is totally stopping the momentum of this post, but I don't care. Mandy Patinkin was in some flop Off-Broadway musical and played a woman or something crazy like that.

Mimi: Vanities with men? Interesting...

[Mimi Imfurst]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 7:05am

Why would I go to school in drag?

Why not!? I mean seriously- I did it because I could, because I wante to.... because it defied people's expectations. Why did you wear what you wore when went to high school.

Vanities- yea, is going to be great.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 8:37am

Well, Mimi, I don't aprove of your teacher de-wigging you.
But that IS one HUUUUGE wig, dear. Your teacher did have a valid point.

A kicky Cher-esque 'fall' would show great consideration for your fellow students.

[wildcat]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 9:42am

The Mandy Patinkin musical was called THE KNIFE, about a man who had a sex change operation.

[Mimi Imfurst]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 1:00pm

Looking back I laugh at the scenerio. It WAS rather funny.
I wonder what happened to that wig.

[OtherDaryl]

Posted: 3/18/05 at 1:12pm

Musical Theatre has many "trouser roles" written for women playing men, including Edwin Drood, with most coming from the Operatic repertoire. For example:

Alcina - Handel
Xeres (Serse) - Handel
Euridice ed Orfeo - Gluck
Marriage of Figaro - Mozart
La Clemenza di Titto - Mozart
Der Fledermaus - J Strauss
Der Rosenkavalier - R Strauss
Ariadne auf Naxos - R Strauss

[Sporkie]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 1:24am

I wrote this from a slightly different username, but this is the same Sporkie who posted the orig. message.
Yo, you guys are all so dumb! Well a bunch of you.
In response to the 'Justice' who said I had something against these people you are just being defensive. Justice is truly BLIND!! Why?
1. I said, "Not that I'm complaining" about the dragginess.
2. I said crossdresser. Which Angel is.
3. I said crossdresser. Which, in a different sense, is what the actor playing Edna is
4. I AM TRANS-and I have something to tell you- I am a out FtM transexual in highschool dealing with mad discrimination, bladder holding, parental disapproval, and being kicked off teams and not being allowed to participate in school activities. So think before you flame-and get off your high horse. I was asking because I'm writing a paper on the topic. Would a transphobe cry at that monolouge from A Chorus Line?


I was really looking for someone who knew more about musical theatre than me to bring up some obscure musical starring someone like me, for me to connect to because musicals are so beautiful and feature such a diverse variety of charachters...I thought I'd ask without being super explicit. So yeah.


Oh, but also thank you to all the amazing people who gave really educational and interesting answers-I honestly appreciated them.
Updated On: 3/22/05 at 01:24 AM

[Sporkie]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 1:24am

I wrote this from a slightly different username, but this is the same Sporkie who posted the orig. message.
Yo, you guys are all so dumb! Well a bunch of you.
In response to the 'Justice' who said I had something against these people you are just being defensive. Justice is truly BLIND!! Why?
1. I said, "Not that I'm complaining" about the dragginess.
2. I said crossdresser. Which Angel is.
3. I said crossdresser. Which, in a different sense, is what the actor playing Edna is
4. I AM TRANS-and I have something to tell you- I am a out FtM transexual in highschool dealing with mad discrimination, bladder holding, parental disapproval, and being kicked off teams and not being allowed to participate in school activities. So think before you flame-and get off your high horse. I was asking because I'm writing a paper on the topic. Would a transphobe cry at that monolouge from A Chorus Line?


I was really looking for someone who knew more about musical theatre than me to bring up some obscure musical starring someone like me, for me to connect to because musicals are so beautiful and feature such a diverse variety of charachters...I thought I'd ask without being super explicit. So yeah.


Oh, but also thank you to all the amazing people who gave really educational and interesting answers-I honestly appreciated them.
Updated On: 3/22/05 at 01:24 AM

[Justice]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 1:33am

Sporkie,
No disrespect or anything,
But, couldn't you have made yourself a little more clear in your original post?
I saw the "Not that I'm complaining" - regardless, your title is "What is with all the MtF trannys in musicals?" That right there sounds like a complaint.

[Sporkie]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 1:45am

The title is possible to interpret as a complaint if you read the text-as in there aren't enough FtMs. Plus, you didn't read my words. Words like !made me cry! !crossdresser! and !not that I'm complaining! should maybe have counteracted your confusion, hmmn? Whatever, i'm just sad that people who are full of hate exist, whether they hate me for who I am, which you don't, or whether they are just ready to hate anyone, like you are. I prefer ignorant people to those who are hateful, personally. But whatever. Just try to think a little more
Updated On: 3/22/05 at 01:45 AM

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 2:35am

this entire thread is simply not needed. cross dressing can be traced back to even the very beginning of stage performance when women were not allowed on stage and men played all the male and female roles... even the original production of Romeo and Juliet cast a male as Juliet.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 2:43am

Do you mean roles that are intentionally female-to-male, or do circumstantial cross dressing roles count? At my high school, that happened all the time, because there were so few guys that wanted to be in theater.

[Mimi Imfurst]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 4:48am

As I said the history of transgressing gender on stage dates to prehistoric shamen-predating any other aspect of performing.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/22/05 at 8:16am

yo--spork--your post WAS easy to interpret as tranphobic. And Justice and I will always attack any homophobia on this board. Sorry for the confusion--but be aware that we have been here a long time and have seen homophobic comments. We hate people who hate. SO, now that that is all cleared up--carry on.