What is so bad about bootlegs?- Page 7

[tazber]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:44pm

Yet you come back 10 minutes later? Ha. You said nothing constructive on this thread so...bye bye Jane.

This amuses me because you've said nothing constructive in your entire tenure here.

But my favorite quote is the one who compared the illegality of bootlegs with with gay marriage and then accused Jane and Namo of having weak reasoning.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:49pm

That's what inspired my Mensa comment.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/17/13 at 12:06am

To be fair, there's been a lot of silliness on both sides.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/17/13 at 12:07am

I'm sure if you pull up any of the dozens of threads that has been started about this, it will read exactly the same as this. They always do.

[darquegk]

Posted: 9/17/13 at 12:08am

I had a professor in undergrad who argued not only against bootlegs, but against cast recordings. He said that the ability to hear the stars sing the songs outside the theatre, anytime you wanted to, had killed the art of the encore, in which people would cry out to hear songs they would never get to hear again in their lives.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/17/13 at 12:09am

He's not a smart man. But he knows what love is.

[jemjeb2]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 2:09am

How does one get a bootleg? I am out of the loop. Are there any out there of shows from long ago? (Mame, Cabaret, On a Clear Day, etc) I think bootlegs should be treasured if the shows have closed and are the only record of the shows. Mame for example was the first Broadway show Isaw and I would kill (well, not literally) to see Angela Lansbury's performance again.

[logan2]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 3:24am

I understand what Ramin is saying, theater is special because it is so transient. But the reasoning that unique performances shouldn't be seen twice makes me wonder if the legal professional recordings of Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park with George, Sweeney Todd etc. fall into that category. Are those shows not special anymore because they were recorded and now more than just those in attendance that day have seen it? Give me a break, Ramin.

I just watched the show The Visit. It played for a brief period of time in 2008 in a location I had no way of getting to due to monetary funds and work schedule. In Ramin's mind, I don't deserve to ever see it because I, being a mere peasant, wasn't able to actually be there. I would just have to hope and pray that the producers, Chita and George Hearn decide to bring it to a theater in a large town near me. Yeah, that will happen. What an unlikable, elitist position Ramin is taking. I was thrilled to finally see this show, even if it was from an imperfect recording in the comfort of my home. Ramin would say it just isn't special anymore. I totally disagree - I found it spellbinding and will cherish it during my repeated viewings for years to come. Sorry Ramin.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 10:38am

I'm not sure I would call it elitist - it strikes me as utterly plebeian, this idea that "if I'm not going to get paid for it, I'd rather throw it away."

So many people have been taught to live in constant fear that something (money, power) is always just about to be taken away from them.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 11:54am

Do you give away your work? Do you survive life as a full-time volunteer?

[oasisjeff]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 12:52pm

Bootlegs are atrocious, and if anyone knows anyone with A Chorus Line revival cast bootleg, pm me, and I will hunt those people down, get a copy, and then tell them how awful they are (if the quality sucks)!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 1:02pm

In Ramin's mind, I don't deserve to ever see it because I, being a mere peasant, wasn't able to actually be there.

You sound mentally ill.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 1:09pm

The few of us who have made posts supporting the artists who created the work which is bootlegged haven't really received any comments addressing the fact that technically, you are stealing and that whether or not they should be legal, they still are not.

Instead of going on and on about how wonderful bootlegs are, how about addressing my above points? Or do those points just not occur to you, or do you just not care?

[loliveve]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 1:30pm

I'm more interested in the legal connotations surrounding this issue. Perhaps our legal eagles (Henrik or broadwaydevil?) can address the issue of copyright protected designs. For example, If a costume or scenic design is copyright protected, does that somehow make the viewing of it on an unauthorized video -- or photo -- an illegal action?

I know I'm not one of the members you ID'ed, but I can canswer that question. In general, viewing an unauthorized video is not an illegal action. In fact, in almost all cases, receiving a copyrighted work is not illegal. It is sharing the work or copying in some way that is illegal. So "traders" who receive but never give bootlegs are not violating copyright law. Likewise, there generally is not a violation of copyright law if you view a bootleg on YouTube or share a link to a video on the website-- as long as you are not the one who uploaded it in the first place.

Copyright law simply has not caught up to the digital age. That is why only users who shared files could be prosecuted for file sharing on sites such as Napster and Limewire, not those who completely limited their use to downloading and did not make files available for sharing.

Updated On: 9/26/13 at 01:30 PM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 1:37pm

... Thanks for your view but it didn't really address the core issue: If what I am watching on the screen is copyright protected and it's not a film/taping/video authorized by all of those copyright holders in question, I am breaking the law. Aren't I? It's not a question of even *sharing* the video but just watching it would be considered illegal.

Of course, this brings us back to the question of copyright protection and theatrical designs. Are original sets, digital projections, costumes, etc. automatically copyright protected and does that right of ownership transfer over to the filming of the design.

[loliveve]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 2:04pm

That's just my point. No, it's not illegal to view unathorized videos, even if there are copyrighted elements such as costumes, designs, and choreography. The people breaking copyright law are (1) those who film it in the first place and (2) upload it for viewing.

And no, the right of ownership cannot simply transfer.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 2:18pm

If you are profiting by bootlegging, then you are breaking the law, yes. You cannot make money from copyrighted work.

This reminds me a little of people who eat meat and wear leather but do not believe in cruelty to animals. Since they're not the ones who were cruel to the animal, it's ok.

ok.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 3:17pm

Do you give away your work? Do you survive life as a full-time volunteer?

I frequently give away my work, both artistic and quotidian, yes. But you might be unpleasantly surprised at my lack of materialism, because it may challenge your negative image of me.

Jane, I believe that your points have been directly addressed by several people, perhaps just not to your satisfaction (but it's possible that you may only be satisfied by total agreement with your ideas). Personally, I think that if no one ever questioned laws, we would still only be allowed to learn creationism in school, among other things. that is to say, "legal" does not always equal "right."

I don't think anyone should make profit off of bootleg theatre recordings, and although I don't know anyone who does, I'm sure they exist. On the other hand, I see no moral issue with watching them and trading them with like-minded individuals. With no money involved.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 3:59pm

And, yet, someone had to break the law to allow "like-minded individuals" to trade the videos. Are you stating for the record that you believe it should be legal for patrons to film actors (without waivers/consent forms) and film copyright protected designs for general public consumption? Regardless if they're making a profit or not?

[logan2]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 4:09pm

Phyllis, you should see how I look....

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 4:34pm

"Jane, I believe that your points have been directly addressed by several people, perhaps just not to your satisfaction (but it's possible that you may only be satisfied by total agreement with your ideas)."

No that is not the case, meaning I am not only satisfied by total agreement with my ideas. I only remember my posts and Namo's being glossed over for the sake of extolling the virtues of bootlegs.

that is to say, "legal" does not always equal "right."

I never said that either. As usual, my point is misunderstood. It is partly due to my haste in posting and leaving out details, and partly due to people misreading. Anyway, my ONLY POINT WAS THIS - the question asked in the title of the thread is "What is so bad about bootlegs?"

My simple answer was that they are illegal, meaning THAT'S WHAT'S BAD ABOUT THEM- WHICH MEANS I WOULD WANT THEM TO BE LEGAL SO THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THEM. YES, I'M YELLING THIS.

"I don't think anyone should make profit off of bootleg theatre recordings, and although I don't know anyone who does, I'm sure they exist. "

Of course they exist-Don't you know that the person who records the show most likely sells the recording?


p.s. The first ones to usually make a bootleg of a show are members of the crew.

Updated On: 9/26/13 at 04:34 PM

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 8:38pm

That Big Fish marquee is so awesome...... and so yellow! I want it! I must have it! It goes great with the bananas I just bought for my fruit bowl....although they are starting to bruise.

But wait! The marquee is not for sale. What am I to do??? Hmmm. I guess since I like theatre, I'm entitled to it, so I'll just take it. Everyone will understand.

I don't care if it's not mine. It goes with my bananas.

They can make a new one. They can afford it and I'm just a poor Midwestern housewife who adores, I said ADORES theatre! Is anyone free to go unscrew that big yelliw marquee and mail it to my Wisconsin apartment tonight? I love theatre. I'll never see it up close and personal if it's not hanging above my banana bowl in my Green Bay kitchen. I'll pay for shipping, because I want it, and I'm entitled, and that is all that matters in the end. Anyone who disagrees with this is a complete asshole! Everyone please respect my illegal activity!!!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 8:43pm

Bravo. Who says satire is dead?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 8:46pm

The difference is that someone will notice if that marquee is gone. A bootleg is a copy--you're not stealing a physical thing that will be missed.

Updated On: 9/26/13 at 08:46 PM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 9/26/13 at 8:54pm

But you are "stealing" the intellectual property that is put forth on the stage in both writing and designs. Just FYI.